McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Reillers]

Billy and Co..who think the players are just a bunch of whingers, spoiled brats who are just throwing their dummies of the pram..

From AFR.

What about dealing with the real problem ?
By Slán go Fóill Saturday November 8th, 2008

A BREAK is as good as a rest, or so they say, so it was off to Barcelona for four days during mid-term. But nothing really changes, does it? Four days, three of them lashing rain all day long, we thought we were back at home.

But what we did see is that there is a very thin, fine line between genius and mad man and when we stared in awe at Gaudi's architecture in various parts of the city we just couldn't decide which he was, genius or mad man. Maybe a bit of both. It brought into mind our GAA situation here in Cork.

Are we all geniuses or mad men, especially in light of what Cork hurling is going through again? Only geniuses could have steered the GAA through the past 120 years, crisis after crisis, and delivered it improved and thriving on to the next generation. Only mad men could put up with some of the crises we create and I include the present hurling crisis in that. Not a single word of GAA for four whole days, we arrived home to find the newspapers full of the Cork story. Confidential documents leaked to the press, lack of trust and confidence, back-stabbing and accusations and, again, outsiders butting in, telling us what we should do and who to blame.

Where are we going and what are we doing? Are we seriously saying that the crisis with the Cork hurling team is the most pressing problem facing the GAA in Cork today? Well, gentlemen of the Cork hurling team, Gerald McCarthy and fellow mentors, members of the County Board, I have news for you today. It isn't.

This 'crisis' will be done and dusted in time for the National Leagues in the Spring, one way or the other, but the real problems facing Cork GAA will still be with us. Why doesn't the media deal properly with those problems? Because they aren't sensational enough and we all want to put our heads in the sand and pretend they don't exist. But they do, and they are not going away because very little is being done to solve them.

Do you want a list of the Top Twenty problems facing the GAA in Cork today, every one of them more important than Cork hurlers going on strike, again? Well, here they are – 1. An unacceptable fallout of players between the ages of 12 and 18. 2. an unacceptable fixtures structure that penalises clubs and club players. 3. an elitist system that forces out the less able players. 4. long, fine weeks of summer going by with no serious club activity. 5. no plan of action to cater for the growing, young populations in many urban centres. 6. declining standards in both football and hurling, especially in the city. 7. declining crowds at most club games. 8. the ever-rising cost of running clubs today. 9. total shortage of full-time coaches to service the schools. 10. deplorable lack of promotion of Gaelic games by the County Board in opposition to growing interest in other codes.

11. severe lack of voluntary workers in most clubs. 12. major lack of new, young referees and a very poor standard of refereeing all round. 13. unrealistic Co. Board deadlines that force teams to play three championship games within a week. 14. meaningless conventions that merely serve to emphasise the lack of proper democracy at grassroots' level. 15. an amateur organisation that sees some people making plenty money under the table but the big bosses can't even identify the tables. 16. a stadium that is antiquated and the most uncomfortable in the country. 17. a stagnant association that has seen only one new club formed, with great opposition, during the past quarter century. 18. too many Boards, all vying for their own slice of time, pitches and players. 19. too many ex-players putting nothing back into the clubs. 20. antiquated, dysfunctional divisional boundaries kept in place by vested interests. Etc,. etc.

None of these items are classed as crisis but 25 players refusing to play for their county is a major crisis. At this stage I wouldn't even put the hurling situation in my Top Fifty problems facing the GAA in Cork. It means nothing to me or my club whether or not we put a Cork hurling team on the pitch in 2009, except that we might be deprived of some good days out next summer.

All the above items directly affect my club and the players in it. That is the real GAA, that is the GAA that should be taking up our attention. Why isn't it? Because all the above problems are internal GAA problems and have no interest among the general public, no media interest.

There's no news in a junior club in West Cork being idle for thirteen weeks of the summer and then being forced to play three important games in a week. Or in players not being able to fix family holidays because nobody can give them a definite date for the next round of the championship. Or in a junior B championship starting at the end of October. Or being accosted at every hand's turn by clubs running large lotteries to fund developments or running costs. Or schools dropping out of Sciath na Scol because no coaches are provided to help them out.

What parents want to be told that the GAA under age club is not a baby-sitting service and that they should make some effort to give a hand while their kids are playing? Does it matter to the media if your under-12 hurling team, that you put so much effort into all during a very successful summer, leaves you high and dry when soccer and rugby start up again?

As I asked at the start, are we all geniuses or mad men? Sometimes I wonder. Maybe a greater influx of women into the association at all levels would help solve many of our problems. But the lack of effort in involving women is another ongoing problem in a male-dominated organisation.

I suppose as long as the games continue, we will always be satisfied with less than we should.

.....................

That's before I even go near any of the problems with Cork senior hurling. That's a taste of what we've to put up with. And ALL of that, not some, not most. ALL OF THAT is the CCB's fault and no one elses.

Totally way off the mark -

Has your club any representation on the county board ?

Do they send delegates to meetings ? If os, what do your delegates do about the above ?


What I'm trying to say is that you can't leave all these problems at Frank Murphy's door and I'm not a supporter of Frank Murphy by the way. I merely respect what he has done for the association over a very long period of time - in fact most of his life.

Way off the mark?? Read my last posts.

Respect what he's done, I respect the fact that he has put so much time in to it (for not a bad wage) but did you not read any of the above post except the bit you highlighted..clearly not. What he's doing now is running Cork GAA into the ground and that is the CCB's fault and their fault alone. How can you respect that??

When you look at results of voting from the floor. You see results like margins like 82-6 or 84-8....etc.
What does this prove, that every time they have to vote on something serious they all tend to vote in the exact same way, my point being that people are not voting in conscience, they are doing what they are told.
When the same bunch who voted overwhelmingly to appoint Teddy Holland vote overwhelmingly to sack him a few months later then you'd have to wonder who's doing the thinking in that meeting room.

Murphy is the puppet master and he's everyone but the players on a string.

The man rules the roost and he's enough turkeys around to help him maintain this power..FACT. He can not be moved until he wants to go.

[theskull1]

Well I read 17 out of the 20 as being national GAA issues. Reillers your problem is that you think everybody else is sitting pretty. We're not. We're all trying to do our bit.

[INDIANA]

The bottom line is that your average gaa fan doesn't really give a shite about the issues down there anymore. Let Cork sort it out, its there problem. But as said before its time for a lot of people on all sides of the debate to vacate the scene. What concerns me about the Cork players is this:

Are the Cork players prepared to accept any responsibility that maybe they aren't up to the job anymore? After all, when a team crosses the whitewash he manger's influence is decidedly limited. No offence Reillers but only 3 of the current Cork team would get on the Kilkenny team. Even when Cork put this behind them, that problem will still remain.
Only Ronan Curran, Ben O Connor and Tom Kenny would get on the Cats. Maybe the players, Frank Murphy and Gerald would be better off sitting down talking about that, because when all this is over, whatever the rights and wrongs of it , that problem will remain.
I will state it here now, I would happily put my mortgage on it, that Cork have absolutely no chance of the all-ireland in 2009 at hurling. None. Its an absolute shambles.

[AZOffaly]

Howye lads,

I haven't been able to keep up to date with this issue , damned work, but every snippet I catch reinforces my opinion that there needs to be a clear out down there, at County Board level, at least. However, I was disappointed to read that Ben O'Connor, I think, effectively admitted this was a 'strike' and they would be hoping no-one would cross the 'picket line'. I abhor GAA Player Strikes, because it is both presumptious and smacks of militancy. I have no problem, as I've stated, with a lad walking out of a panel at the start of the year because he feels he either can't commit, or doesn't want to commit, for whatever reason. But to encourage, or even unintentionally intimidate younger players, is beyond the pale as far as I am concerned.

Anyway, thats just my general feeling without getting into the specifics of this particular issue.

On a slightly lighter note, I received this in a text message. You have to sing it to the air everyone knows.

'How oft, in my thoughts, are the hurlers on strike,
Any chance they might actually play?
Do they want a new boss, do they not give a toss,
Is it just that they want to be paid?
Is the training not great? Are the drills out of date?
Is the pasta not there for their tea........?
Will the manager go?
Frank Murphy says No!
On the banks of my own lovellllllllyyyy Leeeeeeeee.'

[belleaqua]

reinforces my opinion that there needs to be a clear out down there, at County Board level, at least.

Can only agree with that but with the nature of GAA politics especially in Cork makes this seem seriously unlikely.

Can I ask the supporters and opponents of the Cork players a couple of questions, and help me tease this out. Im trying to look at this impartially and see where a possible solution could be found.

Do they believe the Cork hurlers are acting in what they believe to be in the best interests of Cork hurling?
Do they believe Gerald McCarthy is acting in what he believes are in the best interests of Cork hurling?

If the answer is yes to both then its fair to say the county board is the problem. There is very little prospect of serious change there I would imagine, lets says there wont be change for arguments sake. Unfortunately the Cork County Board seems to be the only constant permanent fixture in this debacle and will continue to be for some while?

So, how do Gerald McCarthy and the Cork hurlers sort it out? Which is the lesser of two possible evils?

a) Does McCarthy resign?  Is that in the best interests of Cork hurling and what will be the consequences? (short and long term)

b) Do the players continue their stance? Is that in the best interests of Cork hurling and what will be the consequences? (long term)


Lets say McCarthy steps down, Cork players get the man they want and in next 3 years they fail to win an All-Ireland title....will anything change regarding manager selection process?

McCarthy stays on....same result, Cork win nothing in two years....same question...will this change anything regarding the manager selection process?

Sorry if this is confusing but it would help clear up a few things for me anyway!

[Reillers]

The bottom line is that your average gaa fan doesn't really give a shite about the issues down there anymore. Let Cork sort it out, its there problem. But as said before its time for a lot of people on all sides of the debate to vacate the scene. What concerns me about the Cork players is this:

Are the Cork players prepared to accept any responsibility that maybe they aren't up to the job anymore? After all, when a team crosses the whitewash he manger's influence is decidedly limited. No offence Reillers but only 3 of the current Cork team would get on the Kilkenny team. Even when Cork put this behind them, that problem will still remain.
Only Ronan Curran, Ben O Connor and Tom Kenny would get on the Cats. Maybe the players, Frank Murphy and Gerald would be better off sitting down talking about that, because when all this is over, whatever the rights and wrongs of it , that problem will remain.
I will state it here now, I would happily put my mortgage on it, that Cork have absolutely no chance of the all-ireland in 2009 at hurling. None. Its an absolute shambles.

GOD for the love of..it's not the point. I mean really. I know it's extremley hard for ye to understand what's going on in Cork, it's hard for anyone outside Cork to get it. But for the umptenth time this has got nothing to do with if they are up for it. That issue is and will be settled on the pitch. It's about getting the best chance to do so, to win, they feel they aren't and wel they aren't. It's so, SO much bigger then all of that and I honestly have got to wonder how many more times that I've to say that it's got f**k all to do with loosing or beating KK.

(Put your mortgage on Cork U21s winning the AI though, they've an unreal team this year, I thought last years were good..ya they underpreformed and the structures or lack of structures that is, were shown, but this team is even better then last years, if you've got a spare few bob lying around throw it on that..not to mention that if there's no senior team then the whole county will be behind them more so then usual.)

[theskull1]

Howye lads,

I haven't been able to keep up to date with this issue , damned work, but every snippet I catch reinforces my opinion that there needs to be a clear out down there, at County Board level, at least.

But there isn't anybody at a club administration level demanding change in executive personnel. And as well as that, what was it 88-15 voted to ratify GMcC as manager? Who's going to be the champion of change within the structures of the orginisation? It's all very well to call for change here, but a different thing to find the individuals prepared to take on these roles. Good administrators prepared to take on these jobs are sadly lacking

[Reillers]

reinforces my opinion that there needs to be a clear out down there, at County Board level, at least.

Can only agree with that but with the nature of GAA politics especially in Cork makes this seem seriously unlikely.

Can I ask the supporters and opponents of the Cork players a couple of questions, and help me tease this out. Im trying to look at this impartially and see where a possible solution could be found.

Do they believe the Cork hurlers are acting in what they believe to be in the best interests of Cork hurling? Yes, 100% so.
Do they believe Gerald McCarthy is acting in what he believes are in the best interests of Cork hurling? In his oppinion yes, but he's not a good manager, I think in some way he knows that but stays on because his pride is wounded.l

If the answer is yes to both then its fair to say the county board is the problem. There is very little prospect of serious change there I would imagine, lets says there wont be change for arguments sake. Unfortunately the Cork County Board seems to be the only constant permanent fixture in this debacle and will continue to be for some while? Sadly I agree. Permanent fixture, Murphy is the longest serving CB chariman in the country. An immovable force.

So, how do Gerald McCarthy and the Cork hurlers sort it out? Which is the lesser of two possible evils?

a) Does McCarthy resign?  Is that in the best interests of Cork hurling and what will be the consequences? (short and long term)
The players do what the one thing they can do that has any affect..refuse to play, but it's not working this time because this is exactly what the board wants, they know that they are binded by arbitrition and that they wont break it, meaning they know full well that they can't and wont strike and instead they'll walk away, which I firmly believe was the CCB's plan in the first place. Does Gerald resign, ya, but that's cause I think he's a bad manager. He wont resign and sadly he can't see that he's been dangled by a string by Murphy.
b) Do the players continue their stance? Is that in the best interests of Cork hurling and what will be the consequences? (long term)
They will continue till a solution is found. Is it in the best interest, they are willing to sacrifice their playing careers, they are willing to end their careers not in a blaze of glory that they ALL deserve but in controversy and hate..etc. In both long and short term, yes it's best.

Lets say McCarthy steps down, Cork players get the man they want and in next 3 years they fail to win an All-Ireland title....will anything change regarding manager selection process?
McCarthy stepping down alone will be like putting a plaster on a gun shot wound. The only way things can progress is when sorry if we ever get rid of the board. Getting rid of McCarthy is a very, very short term solution and we'll be down this track a year or so latter again. McCarthy isn't the big problem here, he's just a pawn who can't see what he's got himself mixed up in.
McCarthy stays on....same result, Cork win nothing in two years....same question...will this change anything regarding the manager selection process?
Same as the answer above.
Sorry if this is confusing but it would help clear up a few things for me anyway!

[The GAA]

I think there is an obvious short term solution for all sides. could the players' preference, ger cunningham, not be added to the managment team to enhance the training and reinvigorate the whole camp?

surely this would placate everyone and enable the whole thing to move on?

i think if ben o'connor has spoken about a strike he is very wrong given that they undertook not to do so a year ago.

[Reillers]

Howye lads,

I haven't been able to keep up to date with this issue , damned work, but every snippet I catch reinforces my opinion that there needs to be a clear out down there, at County Board level, at least.

But there isn't anybody at a club administration level demanding change in executive personnel. And as well as that, what was it 88-15 voted to ratify GMcC as manager? Who's going to be the champion of change within the structures of the orginisation? It's all very well to call for change here, but a different thing to find the individuals prepared to take on these roles. Good administrators prepared to take on these jobs are sadly lacking

Do you know why??
A good chunk are in the boards pockets. The others, well it's fair to say are being held at ransom.
To stand up and stick the head out will be like a rabit in the headlights. The CCB provides the funding..but it's becomming more and more expensive to keep a club from drowning in financial problems in Cork. The CCB are in charge of who gets to host finals, what referees they get, what fixtures they get, what games they host,

it is a major political game getting favourable venues and referees for major games and those that don't play the game very well will frequently be hard done by. Not to mention that clubs who host those major games get desperately needed money, the CCB decides who hosts the games.

Somehow because while there may be a fair bit of support for sorting out the mess, no club wants to risk being the first to raise its head and face unofficial sanctions.

[Reillers]

I think there is an obvious short term solution for all sides. could the players' preference, ger cunningham, not be added to the managment team to enhance the training and reinvigorate the whole camp?

surely this would placate everyone and enable the whole thing to move on?

i think if ben o'connor has spoken about a strike he is very wrong given that they undertook not to do so a year ago.

That's all good and great for a short term sollution. But NOTHING can move on untill the board is gone.

[Reillers]

Howye lads,

I haven't been able to keep up to date with this issue , damned work, but every snippet I catch reinforces my opinion that there needs to be a clear out down there, at County Board level, at least. However, I was disappointed to read that Ben O'Connor, I think, effectively admitted this was a 'strike' and they would be hoping no-one would cross the 'picket line'. I abhor GAA Player Strikes, because it is both presumptious and smacks of militancy. I have no problem, as I've stated, with a lad walking out of a panel at the start of the year because he feels he either can't commit, or doesn't want to commit, for whatever reason. But to encourage, or even unintentionally intimidate younger players, is beyond the pale as far as I am concerned.

Anyway, thats just my general feeling without getting into the specifics of this particular issue.

On a slightly lighter note, I received this in a text message. You have to sing it to the air everyone knows.

'How oft, in my thoughts, are the hurlers on strike,
Any chance they might actually play?
Do they want a new boss, do they not give a toss,
Is it just that they want to be paid?
Is the training not great? Are the drills out of date?
Is the pasta not there for their tea........?
Will the manager go?
Frank Murphy says No!
On the banks of my own lovellllllllyyyy Leeeeeeeee.'

Don't agree with the first part..But the second part, is fuckin hillarious, have to admit..seen it all ready though, it's very good. LOL!!

[Kerry Mike]

John Gardiner, Cork Captain in 2008 on Prime Time in a few mins, the country is in real Shite and this crap in langerlands get on prime time FFS.

[orangeman]

Billy and Co..who think the players are just a bunch of whingers, spoiled brats who are just throwing their dummies of the pram..

From AFR.

What about dealing with the real problem ?
By Slán go Fóill Saturday November 8th, 2008

A BREAK is as good as a rest, or so they say, so it was off to Barcelona for four days during mid-term. But nothing really changes, does it? Four days, three of them lashing rain all day long, we thought we were back at home.

But what we did see is that there is a very thin, fine line between genius and mad man and when we stared in awe at Gaudi's architecture in various parts of the city we just couldn't decide which he was, genius or mad man. Maybe a bit of both. It brought into mind our GAA situation here in Cork.

Are we all geniuses or mad men, especially in light of what Cork hurling is going through again? Only geniuses could have steered the GAA through the past 120 years, crisis after crisis, and delivered it improved and thriving on to the next generation. Only mad men could put up with some of the crises we create and I include the present hurling crisis in that. Not a single word of GAA for four whole days, we arrived home to find the newspapers full of the Cork story. Confidential documents leaked to the press, lack of trust and confidence, back-stabbing and accusations and, again, outsiders butting in, telling us what we should do and who to blame.

Where are we going and what are we doing? Are we seriously saying that the crisis with the Cork hurling team is the most pressing problem facing the GAA in Cork today? Well, gentlemen of the Cork hurling team, Gerald McCarthy and fellow mentors, members of the County Board, I have news for you today. It isn't.

This 'crisis' will be done and dusted in time for the National Leagues in the Spring, one way or the other, but the real problems facing Cork GAA will still be with us. Why doesn't the media deal properly with those problems? Because they aren't sensational enough and we all want to put our heads in the sand and pretend they don't exist. But they do, and they are not going away because very little is being done to solve them.

Do you want a list of the Top Twenty problems facing the GAA in Cork today, every one of them more important than Cork hurlers going on strike, again? Well, here they are – 1. An unacceptable fallout of players between the ages of 12 and 18. 2. an unacceptable fixtures structure that penalises clubs and club players. 3. an elitist system that forces out the less able players. 4. long, fine weeks of summer going by with no serious club activity. 5. no plan of action to cater for the growing, young populations in many urban centres. 6. declining standards in both football and hurling, especially in the city. 7. declining crowds at most club games. 8. the ever-rising cost of running clubs today. 9. total shortage of full-time coaches to service the schools. 10. deplorable lack of promotion of Gaelic games by the County Board in opposition to growing interest in other codes.

11. severe lack of voluntary workers in most clubs. 12. major lack of new, young referees and a very poor standard of refereeing all round. 13. unrealistic Co. Board deadlines that force teams to play three championship games within a week. 14. meaningless conventions that merely serve to emphasise the lack of proper democracy at grassroots' level. 15. an amateur organisation that sees some people making plenty money under the table but the big bosses can't even identify the tables. 16. a stadium that is antiquated and the most uncomfortable in the country. 17. a stagnant association that has seen only one new club formed, with great opposition, during the past quarter century. 18. too many Boards, all vying for their own slice of time, pitches and players. 19. too many ex-players putting nothing back into the clubs. 20. antiquated, dysfunctional divisional boundaries kept in place by vested interests. Etc,. etc.

None of these items are classed as crisis but 25 players refusing to play for their county is a major crisis. At this stage I wouldn't even put the hurling situation in my Top Fifty problems facing the GAA in Cork. It means nothing to me or my club whether or not we put a Cork hurling team on the pitch in 2009, except that we might be deprived of some good days out next summer.

All the above items directly affect my club and the players in it. That is the real GAA, that is the GAA that should be taking up our attention. Why isn't it? Because all the above problems are internal GAA problems and have no interest among the general public, no media interest.

There's no news in a junior club in West Cork being idle for thirteen weeks of the summer and then being forced to play three important games in a week. Or in players not being able to fix family holidays because nobody can give them a definite date for the next round of the championship. Or in a junior B championship starting at the end of October. Or being accosted at every hand's turn by clubs running large lotteries to fund developments or running costs. Or schools dropping out of Sciath na Scol because no coaches are provided to help them out.

What parents want to be told that the GAA under age club is not a baby-sitting service and that they should make some effort to give a hand while their kids are playing? Does it matter to the media if your under-12 hurling team, that you put so much effort into all during a very successful summer, leaves you high and dry when soccer and rugby start up again?

As I asked at the start, are we all geniuses or mad men? Sometimes I wonder. Maybe a greater influx of women into the association at all levels would help solve many of our problems. But the lack of effort in involving women is another ongoing problem in a male-dominated organisation.

I suppose as long as the games continue, we will always be satisfied with less than we should.

.....................

That's before I even go near any of the problems with Cork senior hurling. That's a taste of what we've to put up with. And ALL of that, not some, not most. ALL OF THAT is the CCB's fault and no one elses.

Totally way off the mark -

Has your club any representation on the county board ?

Do they send delegates to meetings ? If os, what do your delegates do about the above ?


What I'm trying to say is that you can't leave all these problems at Frank Murphy's door and I'm not a supporter of Frank Murphy by the way. I merely respect what he has done for the association over a very long period of time - in fact most of his life.

Way off the mark?? Read my last posts.

Respect what he's done, I respect the fact that he has put so much time in to it (for not a bad wage) but did you not read any of the above post except the bit you highlighted..clearly not. What he's doing now is running Cork GAA into the ground and that is the CCB's fault and their fault alone. How can you respect that??

When you look at results of voting from the floor. You see results like margins like 82-6 or 84-8....etc.
What does this prove, that every time they have to vote on something serious they all tend to vote in the exact same way, my point being that people are not voting in conscience, they are doing what they are told.
When the same bunch who voted overwhelmingly to appoint Teddy Holland vote overwhelmingly to sack him a few months later then you'd have to wonder who's doing the thinking in that meeting room.

Murphy is the puppet master and he's everyone but the players on a string.

The man rules the roost and he's enough turkeys around to help him maintain this power..FACT. He can not be moved until he wants to go.

Your arguments were well founded up until the point where you started to attack only one person and lay the blame for the entire malaise that is Cork hurling at ONE man's door. This man came to the Cork players rescue many times in the recent past and defended them and backed them to the hilt.

The Cork players speak of a vendetta against them - I'm not sure if there is one but you certainly appear to be waging one against Frank Murphy with staements such as you have made above and in other statments - no way is Frank Murphy "enjoying" this. Absolutely NO WAY !

[orangeman]

I think there is an obvious short term solution for all sides. could the players' preference, ger cunningham, not be added to the managment team to enhance the training and reinvigorate the whole camp?

surely this would placate everyone and enable the whole thing to move on?

i think if ben o'connor has spoken about a strike he is very wrong given that they undertook not to do so a year ago.

That's all good and great for a short term sollution. But NOTHING can move on untill the board is gone.

So now we're getting somewhere - the board as well as the manager have to go !!!!

You're losing the run of yourself.

You just can sit on your hands and say, we're not playing until we have a new manager AND a new county board.


I can just see it now - Donal Og - County chairman and Sean Og - secretary.

Happy now ?