McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[orangeman]

I've asked it before

Who do the Cork players want as manager?

they want another John Allen type figure. Basically, someone who will sit back and let the players do what they want.

what they don't want is a manager with knowledge of the game, opinions on the game, and their own methods and ways of doing things.

I think we have come to the crux of the issue over the past few posts though. This is about finding a scapegoat for either losing to Kilkenny/not winning an all-Ireland this year (take your pick). The players seem quite willing to play the blame game and point the finger in every direction except their own.

And how can anyone say Gerald MacCarthy is a bad manager? The only basis I've heard to argue that case is that he didn't know what club Timmy McCarthy was from. So what. All that should concern Gerald Mac is what Timmy does for Cork, and nothing else. Gerald Mac has pedigree. He put the foundations in place for the great Waterford teams we've seen this decade. He has the all-Ireland medals. And hes genuinely a nice bloke (yes, I've met him). I think his statement is excellent and hits the nail on the head. But I feel sorry that hes become the one who has to take this challenge to the players. Either way he will end up not managing Cork again. The bigger choice hes faced with is, do I walk away now, or do I stand up to the players and try to make things better for whoever does take over.

And are the players completely stupid? Do they think anyone in their right mind will want the Cork job after this?

You think that Donal O Grady let them do what they want, or even Allen for that matter. You really are dellusioned.
They didn't let them do what they wanted but they were, under Allen allowed discuss it. Under that set up of O Grady and Allen things worked extremley well.

This is NOT about finding a scape goat. This is about a manager with a very, very poor record with Cork as manager.
Poor tactics, poor selections, poor poor training.
As a player he has medals and as a manager way back when like 20 years ago, he did well.
But now, now he's been poor, even the most idiotic, simple fans can see that he is a bad manager.

They know they weren't good enough, but they all know that they are not getting the best chance under Gerald. Everyone can see that, any half fan with a brain.
How is not knowing what club Timmy Mac played for not important.

He's, as good as a player and manager he WAS, that doesn't make him a good Cork manager.

That's clear to even the most half brained simple GAA fan.

His record has been appauling with the Cork scene. I know it, everyone knows it, and the board know it. The ONLY reason he was put back in is because the board knew full well that a few senior players would leave. Gerald is only a pawn in this. They will wash their hands of him in a second and wont look back. Just as soon as the senior 2002 group are gone Gerald mac wiill be out the door in a split second. It's just a pity that he doesn't realise that.
The board know that he's a bad manager, but they keep him in anyway, to use him and then as soon as things go pear shape, which they will, he'll be out the door in a second and the board will wash their hands of him and squirm out of the mess that they've created themselves.

Gerald Mac is a bad manager, and the only reason he's been kept in the job is because he's being used as a pawn in the boards pathetic little game.

How many times do you need to say that he is a bad manager ??

Is it a case if you repeat yourself often enough that the rest of us might start to believe it as well  

[The GAA]

It's interesting to note that you believe anyone who can see both sides of the argument must be a cork hurler. is it so difficult to fathom that sensible people can form  thtir own opinion?

[heffo]

Without knowing the in and outs (aside from what I read in the papers), a few things seem apparent.

McCarthy is a Cork GAA legend and rightly so..
He doesn't appear to be moving with the times - see pre-match meal in Dungarvan and training drills..
He was practically unanimously reappointed - the two player reps don't appear to have suggested either a different process (aside from having issues with the current process) nor did they suggest an alternative candidate..

[orangeman]

It's interesting to note that you believe anyone who can see both sides of the argument must be a cork hurler. is it so difficult to fathom that sensible people can form  thtir own opinion?

Aye but you are so vehemently opposed to him, you'd swear you were one of them.

Yes, sensible people can form their own opinions and the same is true of the oppostie opinion.

I'm now firmly of the view, and I don't know what Mc Carthy is like as a manager by the way, that Mc Carthy has the backing of a lot of Cork officials and supporters who are fed up with what he sees as a " predisposition " to controversy and starting rows within. He has decided to take them on, knowing probably full well that it will leave his job untenable and that he will have to go, but more importantly it could sound the death knell for a lot of senior mens' careers.


Can we agree on this much ? I think you're probably a similar if not the same view ??

[bottlethrower7]

Some of that doesn't make sense bt.

obviously O'Grady was the messiah for them and set in place standards and training that han't been matched since in a time where even standing still is losing ground.
like you, i don't know what happened with allen but i suspect that he just found himself a bit short and moved on. an excert from kieran shannon's piece on the situation accurately sets out the players' position on gerald:

(shannon excerpt)

That certainly destroys the notion that the players had been happy with gerald until very recently

but yet they backed him not 6 months ago?

I can totally sympathise with what Shannon has said but I still don't think its grounds enough for laying the blame squarely on McCarthy's shoulders. The food thing was foolish if it was his doing, but again, there could be more to that than meets the eye. Like funds for example. Under O'Grady and Allen there was one major factor that McCarthy's era didn't share, that being Cork were not a successful team (not by the same standards anyway). It is not unreasonable for the board to pump more funds into a successful team. Again though, this is surmising. The point being, to me its not a concrete enough example.

Intensity at training is a huge factor, as anyone whose ever played hurling will know. But again, how can the blame here be laid exclusively with McCarthy? I played hurling. I know the difference between the good an intense training session will do for you and the bad a lethargic session will do. I also played on a team that had the same manager for 10 years, and we experienced years where both types were prevalent. It wasn't inter-county where you need to be intense all the time to be competitive, but in our case it wasn't down to the manager, it was down to where our heads were at the time. And I accept the argument about the drill where lads were standing around waiting for their next turn. Thats not ideal. But again, what was the context? Maybe McCarthy wanted a medium between running and ball-work. All running isn't always good, especially when tapering just before a game. I'm sorry, but though this could be a very relevant argument, unless its put in full and proper context it won't wash.

I think the model that O'Grady put in place worked wonders and the players really want a return to something like that. But, the players are very different now from back then. The older ones won't have the same go in them to be able to carry off the running/possession game. That has a limited lifespan and Cork's has passed. McCarthy was right (in my opinion) to try new tactics. Whether they were the right ones or not can only be assessed in hindsight, a luxury he did not have when coming up with them.

[bottlethrower7]

You think that Donal O Grady let them do what they want, or even Allen for that matter. You really are dellusioned.
They didn't let them do what they wanted but they were, under Allen allowed discuss it. Under that set up of O Grady and Allen things worked extremley well.

This is NOT about finding a scape goat. This is about a manager with a very, very poor record with Cork as manager.
Poor tactics, poor selections, poor poor training.
As a player he has medals and as a manager way back when like 20 years ago, he did well.
But now, now he's been poor, even the most idiotic, simple fans can see that he is a bad manager.

They know they weren't good enough, but they all know that they are not getting the best chance under Gerald. Everyone can see that, any half fan with a brain.
How is not knowing what club Timmy Mac played for not important.

He's, as good as a player and manager he WAS, that doesn't make him a good Cork manager.

That's clear to even the most half brained simple GAA fan.

His record has been appauling with the Cork scene. I know it, everyone knows it, and the board know it. The ONLY reason he was put back in is because the board knew full well that a few senior players would leave. Gerald is only a pawn in this. They will wash their hands of him in a second and wont look back. Just as soon as the senior 2002 group are gone Gerald mac wiill be out the door in a split second. It's just a pity that he doesn't realise that.
The board know that he's a bad manager, but they keep him in anyway, to use him and then as soon as things go pear shape, which they will, he'll be out the door in a second and the board will wash their hands of him and squirm out of the mess that they've created themselves.

Gerald Mac is a bad manager, and the only reason he's been kept in the job is because he's being used as a pawn in the boards pathetic little game.

no, O'Grady most certainly didn't let them do what they wanted. Allen did, I think that is quite evident.

And I think the rest of your post backs up what I said. He is not deemed to be a good fit for Cork (as decided by the players), but I'd continue to argue that doesn't necessarily make him a bad manager. Cork have had more success with worse managers (Allen to name but one).

[orangeman]

You think that Donal O Grady let them do what they want, or even Allen for that matter. You really are dellusioned.
They didn't let them do what they wanted but they were, under Allen allowed discuss it. Under that set up of O Grady and Allen things worked extremley well.

This is NOT about finding a scape goat. This is about a manager with a very, very poor record with Cork as manager.
Poor tactics, poor selections, poor poor training.
As a player he has medals and as a manager way back when like 20 years ago, he did well.
But now, now he's been poor, even the most idiotic, simple fans can see that he is a bad manager.

They know they weren't good enough, but they all know that they are not getting the best chance under Gerald. Everyone can see that, any half fan with a brain.
How is not knowing what club Timmy Mac played for not important.

He's, as good as a player and manager he WAS, that doesn't make him a good Cork manager.

That's clear to even the most half brained simple GAA fan.

His record has been appauling with the Cork scene. I know it, everyone knows it, and the board know it. The ONLY reason he was put back in is because the board knew full well that a few senior players would leave. Gerald is only a pawn in this. They will wash their hands of him in a second and wont look back. Just as soon as the senior 2002 group are gone Gerald mac wiill be out the door in a split second. It's just a pity that he doesn't realise that.
The board know that he's a bad manager, but they keep him in anyway, to use him and then as soon as things go pear shape, which they will, he'll be out the door in a second and the board will wash their hands of him and squirm out of the mess that they've created themselves.

Gerald Mac is a bad manager, and the only reason he's been kept in the job is because he's being used as a pawn in the boards pathetic little game.

no, O'Grady most certainly didn't let them do what they wanted. Allen did, I think that is quite evident.

And I think the rest of your post backs up what I said. He is not deemed to be a good fit for Cork (as decided by the players), but I'd continue to argue that doesn't necessarily make him a bad manager. Cork have had more success with worse managers (Allen to name but one).

[/b]


Is it a case simply that some of the great Cork players have come or are coming to the end of the rope ??

[bottlethrower7]

Is it a case simply that some of the great Cork players have come or are coming to the end of the rope ??

Personally I believe thats a large part of it, yes.

[antoinse]

The whole players thing is a total load of rubbish. Typical GPA, remain quiet throughout the championship because they know they would get their asses whacked and once it is over they encourage issues to draw attention. How fitting Dessie is now starting to speak out.

Take your GPA away with yourself and play your own little games in Australia or Dubai

[orangeman]

The whole players thing is a total load of rubbish. Typical GPA, remain quiet throughout the championship because they know they would get their asses whacked and once it is over they encourage issues to draw attention. How fitting Dessie is now starting to speak out.

Take your GPA away with yourself and play your own little games in Australia or Dubai

[/b]

Fermoy isn't bad at this time of year - no guarantee of a warm shower all the same !

[Uladh]

Nothing like debating the issues there lads

[orangeman]

Nothing like debating the issues there lads

[orangeman]

I read a couple more articles on the whole thing last night and it does seem that to me that Mc Carthy has taken a decision ( whether it's his own or a collective one involving others ) to put the head down and take the Cork senior job without Donal Og, Gardiners, the O'Connors, Niall Mc, Deane etc - he seems hell bent on carrying it through.

What next for the hurlers ??

I was intrigued by Sean Og saying to him at the meeting : " Sure why would you want this hassle at your time of day ?" 

[orangeman]

In the wake of comments by some of their senior inter-county hurlers in recent days, Cork officials have called for calm on Leeside and for players to show restraint for the greater good of Cork hurling.

A statement issued this afternoon by Cork GAA PRO Bob Ryan, on behalf of the Cork County Board, called for common sense to prevail.

The statement also outlined in detail the process which eventually led to Gerald McCarthy's reappointment as Cork senior hurling manager.

While the Cork County Board have accepted that they may have been in the wrong on occasion in the past, they believe that players, officials and all concerned should now look forward with a focus to benefit Cork hurling.

'Attacks on the (Cork) County Board by a very small number of players have become something of a cliché,' the statement read.

'Cork County Board may have been guilty of misjudgements in the past but few can deny that we have made adjustments to take account of changed times, new values and circumstances.

'But as representatives of the wider GAA family in Cork, we would ask the players, particularly those in leadership positions, to consider whether their current action and threatened action is justified, proportionate or fair.

'We sincerely appeal to them to step back from all of this, to resume their careers, to allow others to resume theirs, and to remember that Cork hurling is bigger than any individual, set of individuals or County Board.'

Cork GAA also expressed its regret over recent events while firmly backing McCarthy as manager.

'The Board re-affirms its support for its properly appointed hurling manager, Gerald McCarthy, and expresses its admiration for his resolve in the current, difficult circumstances.

'We have no wish to become involved in a tit for tat exchange of statements in the media with player representatives

'However, it is important to say this. Board members involved in the selection process for the new manager are at a loss to understand how player representatives could claim that the process was flawed from the outset.'

The statement went on to outline in detail how McCarthy was eventually re-appointed, and also explained how the committee were unaware of McCarthy's availability for the role, at the outset.

'Five meetings took place, four of which were perfectly cordial and constructive.

'At the commencement of the process, the selection committee was unaware that Gerald McCarthy would even be available for the coming season.

'At no stage in any of the meetings did either of the player representatives formally propose the name of any other candidate for consideration.

'At the third meeting, there was a discussion of the names of other possible managers and at no stage was it suggested that any of those talented coaches was superior to Gerald McCarthy.

'When a vote was called at the fifth meeting, player representatives walked out.'

McCarthy took the unprecedented step of issuing his own statement by email to the media on Thursday, while he also gave a number of radio interviews, in which he called on the Rebels' younger players not to be fazed by the actions of their peers.

McCarthy also outlined his growing frustration over current events, and questioned whether players should have a say in the appointment of a manager.

Earlier this week 2008 All-Star Ben O'Connor said that the players 'are ready to go the whole distance' when it comes to their refusal to play under the newly reappointed manager.

Cork are not due back into competitive action until the commencement of the National Hurling League next February, but they are due to fulfil a fixture to celebrate the 150th Anniversary of St Colman's College on 23 November.

That challenge game is pencilled in for Fermoy, with a team of past pupils, including Cork's Brian Murphy, Neil Ronan and Timmy McCarthy, 2007 All-Star Andrew O'Shaughnessy of Limerick and Waterford's Eoin Murphy, due to face the Rebels..

[The GAA]

Best all round here if McCarthy gets on with things and those who disagree with him being appointed don't play.