McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[AZOffaly]

I do find a certain irony in Ger Mac supporting the players in last years upheaval against the proposed Football Manager and the process to appoint him. Now the boot is on the other foot and Gerald doesn't like the fit.

[Reillers]

Kept outta it??

Farrell supports rebel Rebels

GPA chief executive Dessie Farrell has thrown his weight behind the Cork hurlers amid the latest controversy threatening GAA in the Rebel County.

Gerald McCarthy's continuation in the role of manager of the senior hurlers has left almost the entire panel seemingly willing to walk away from involvement with the team in 2009, forcing McCarthy to call the situation another 'strike' and leaving him essentially looking for a new pool of players.

Players have revealed their anger at their lack of input into the appointment of next year's manager and have been openly critical of playing legend McCarthy's abilities in the role, and Farrell says they have a right to be angry if they were ignored.

"A short list of candidates was to be drawn up and interviewed, but that was never the case, " Farrell was quoted as saying by The Irish Mirror.

"The players have taken umbrage with this. The process was completely flawed and, in effect, it was only a cosmetic exercise to have the players involved."

Following last year's footballers strike, players in Cork are again feeling public ire and not all will agree with Farrell's support for them, not least Rebels County Board PRO Bob Ryan, who retorted to the Dubliner's quotes by saying: "Dessie Farrell's claims are absolutely and totally untrue.

"The board will be commenting in full at a later stage. If the process was so flawed, how come there were five meetings – and the players' representatives attended all of those meetings? "

[INDIANA]

Ger's full statement


I have watched with growing disbelief and distress the way in which this latest Cork hurling controversy has escalated in recent days.

I have tried my best to understand how players have painted themselves into a corner and have threatened to undertake a course of action that will be hugely detrimental to Cork hurling. At a time when the hurling challenges are very obvious indeed, Cork hurling is again beset by negative energy.

I have regrettably come to the conclusion that there is a pre-disposition to conflict among a very small number of Cork players.

The presentation by certain players of my appointment as Cork hurling manager has been quite disingenuous. That is a pity because the great mass of supporters should have been correctly appraised of both the sequence and direction of the five meetings which took place involving the selection committee on which the players were represented.

I am happy that my appointment was correctly made. It was not a "done deal" as has been suggested. I have no particular connection with Cork county board and like many, have "had my moments" with them down the years. I have backed the players when I felt they had a case - against the board - and I am pleased that they are now, without question, among the best treated and facilitated in the country.

As I have previously said, I feel honoured and privileged to be offered the job as Cork manager and am determined to see it through to the very best of my ability. For some players to attempt to retrofit an objection to my appointment goes beyond their mandate as players and isn't worthy of them. To assume that because they enjoy high public status as players they are entitled to treat people in a summary and offensive way, reflects poorly on them.

Let there be no doubt about this. These are wonderful players; committed and determined.  They have had tremendous success  with Cork. Not on their own but as part of a magnificent collective effort that has brought them to the level they are, from juvenile through to senior ranks. It is the nature of Cork hurling that the success these players have achieved, has been achieved before. It is also true that when all the current protagonists, including myself, have left the stage, Cork hurlers will go on to replicate the successes of the current panel.

The fundamental issue here is whether players have a right to effectively appoint their own managers or veto the appointment of managers.  I don't believe they should. It is undesirable, unworkable and untenable. It is a basic truth in sport that managers manage and players play. For Cork hurling to capitulate to a demand that would not be entertained in any other sport would be massively damaging to hurling here.

I am desperately saddened at the manner in which younger players have been dragged into something that has nothing to do with hurling or sport.  But I fully understand how difficult it must be not to be influenced by senior players whom they hold in such high esteem. If these young players are disposed to learning, they are on the cusp of great careers. My advice to them is to focus on hurling, not on the politics of hurling.  They should be true to their ambition to be great hurlers and to represent their county.

As a player, I vowed that I would never be intimidated on the pitch by anyone and would like to think that I managed to be true to that. Little did I think that I would be calling on that resolve again. I will not be intimidated or bullied now. This issue is about due process, respect and other core values that I and many others hold dear.  It is not overstating matters to say that the future of Cork hurling is at stake and that is too precious to be threatened by any player action.

At a meeting with nine Cork players last week, Seán Óg Ó hAilpín asked a very reasonable question: why "at your age" do you want all this hassle? I explained that I actually didn't want any hassle. I do want to get on with the job of bringing a panel of players who want to play for Cork as far as I can possibly bring them.  That clearly was not the right answer.  Going forward, I will try to handle as best I can all the aggravation some players promised would come my way and will react to that kind of threat in the way I always have - by standing firm for what I believe to be right.

Some players are coming close to the end of their careers. If, for whatever reason, they do not wish to play under my management next season, fair enough. But for them to contaminate the atmosphere for up and coming, promising players would be a tragedy for everyone involved in Cork hurling. 

Finally, I would like to sincerely thank everybody, GAA and sports people of all codes who understand what is at stake here and who have offered support to me and my family.








© 2008 The Irish Times
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[orangeman]

Kept outta it??

Farrell supports rebel Rebels

GPA chief executive Dessie Farrell has thrown his weight behind the Cork hurlers amid the latest controversy threatening GAA in the Rebel County.

Gerald McCarthy's continuation in the role of manager of the senior hurlers has left almost the entire panel seemingly willing to walk away from involvement with the team in 2009, forcing McCarthy to call the situation another 'strike' and leaving him essentially looking for a new pool of players.

Players have revealed their anger at their lack of input into the appointment of next year's manager and have been openly critical of playing legend McCarthy's abilities in the role, and Farrell says they have a right to be angry if they were ignored.

"A short list of candidates was to be drawn up and interviewed, but that was never the case, " Farrell was quoted as saying by The Irish Mirror.

"The players have taken umbrage with this. The process was completely flawed and, in effect, it was only a cosmetic exercise to have the players involved."

Following last year's footballers strike, players in Cork are again feeling public ire and not all will agree with Farrell's support for them, not least Rebels County Board PRO Bob Ryan, who retorted to the Dubliner's quotes by saying: "Dessie Farrell's claims are absolutely and totally untrue.

"The board will be commenting in full at a later stage. If the process was so flawed, how come there were five meetings – and the players' representatives attended all of those meetings? "

Farrell is very careful here to not to be seen to be critical of Mc Carthy - he says the players have a right to be angry IF they were ignored which really isn't saying a lot.

[turk]

I've asked it before

Who do the Cork players want as manager?

[bottlethrower7]

I've asked it before

Who do the Cork players want as manager?

they want another John Allen type figure. Basically, someone who will sit back and let the players do what they want.

what they don't want is a manager with knowledge of the game, opinions on the game, and their own methods and ways of doing things.

I think we have come to the crux of the issue over the past few posts though. This is about finding a scapegoat for either losing to Kilkenny/not winning an all-Ireland this year (take your pick). The players seem quite willing to play the blame game and point the finger in every direction except their own.

And how can anyone say Gerald MacCarthy is a bad manager? The only basis I've heard to argue that case is that he didn't know what club Timmy McCarthy was from. So what. All that should concern Gerald Mac is what Timmy does for Cork, and nothing else. Gerald Mac has pedigree. He put the foundations in place for the great Waterford teams we've seen this decade. He has the all-Ireland medals. And hes genuinely a nice bloke (yes, I've met him). I think his statement is excellent and hits the nail on the head. But I feel sorry that hes become the one who has to take this challenge to the players. Either way he will end up not managing Cork again. The bigger choice hes faced with is, do I walk away now, or do I stand up to the players and try to make things better for whoever does take over.

And are the players completely stupid? Do they think anyone in their right mind will want the Cork job after this?

[The GAA]

The most glaringly obvious point i'd have to make reading the last couple of pages is that noone, certainly not onlookers from other counties, are in a position to assess whether gerald is a good intercounty manager. to argue that the cork players don't know whether he is good enough is ridiculous. these fellas have played club, fitzgibbon, county minor, county u21 and senior hurling. they have been exposed to all standards of coaching and mangement and most of them have all ireland medals. undeniably they are in the very best position to assess gerald's capacity to progress and prepare the team.

for anyone wanting the very best for cork hurling (not everyone does), the fact that the players do not rate gerald after training under him for 2 years should be alarming. the fact that the custodians of cork hurling - the county board - have been furnished with hat information and choose to ignore it and not even look at alternatives is astounding.

[bottlethrower7]

The most glaringly obvious point i'd have to make reading the last couple of pages is that noone, certainly not onlookers from other counties, are in a position to assess whether gerald is a good intercounty manager. to argue that the cork players don't know whether he is good enough is ridiculous. these fellas have played club, fitzgibbon, county minor, county u21 and senior hurling. they have been exposed to all standards of coaching and mangement and most of them have all ireland medals. undeniably they are in the very best position to assess gerald's capacity to progress and prepare the team.

well other than his pedigree and his track record. But I don't think this is about whether hes a good manager or not. Hes not what they want. He doesn't do things the way they want. They won't be happy until they're running the show themselves.

[The GAA]

With respect bt, that's rubbish. surely even the most biased onlooker here can admit that the players don't rate him as a coach?

by what logichave you arrived at the conclusion that they don't want him any reasons other than pure coaching ones?

[bottlethrower7]

With respect bt, that's rubbish. surely even the most biased onlooker here can admit that the players don't rate him as a coach?

by what logichave you arrived at the conclusion that they don't want him any reasons other than pure coaching ones?

I think they are coaching reasons. But that doesn't mean McCarthy is a bad coach. I can't see how he can be a bad coach with the experience hes had and what hes achieved in the game.

The way I see it is as follows (forgive my ordering if its slightly out);

Jimmy Barry set out his stall. The players (very young at the time by in large) were fine with it. They won an all-Ireland
Donal O'Grady came in after some turmoil (in which the very unfortunate Bertie Og was the main victim), has coaching methods that worked and that the players were quite obviously happy with.
O'Grady resigned for whatever reason. It was made quite public at the time that the players were strongly in favour of keeping O'Grady's methods and strongly favoured John Allen's appointment (Allen being a selector during O'Grady's tenure)
John Allen managed Cork reasonably successfully, but I think it was clear enough he was not a good manager. He was a facilitator and was not capable of making difficult, on-the-spot decisions (the Clare game where he took Curran off was a fluke).
What the Allen period highlighted (for me anyway) is that, regardless of what the players think, every team needs a strong, authorative manager. Allen was certainly not that. As I said, he was a facilitator, but the strings were being pulled elsewhere.
Enter McCarthy. McCarthy inherited a team in decline in a county that enjoyed scant underage success in the recent past (in contrast to O'Grady and JBM). It is obvious from the outset that McCarthy is opinionated (if only from his TV interviews during his first season). It is also obvious that McCarthy has his own ideas about how Cork should play (for one, abandon that horrible handpassing game Cork adopted during the NewtownShandrum years).

Cork didn't give themselves a chance in Munster this year due to the strike. They had the worst possible preparation. They saved face somewhat by their resilient performances against weak opposition in Clare and Wexford. Ultimately though, they really didn't have a chance once they met one of the big 3 in this years championship (Tipp, KK, WD), beit from their poor early-season preparation or beit from their simply not being good enough (personally I think the latter - they have no forwardline at present and will continue to struggle until they blood new talent in that area).

Let us not forget too that after that Tipp game the entire Cork panel came out and backed McCarthy. They signed some letter or document to that affect (see today's Irish Times for more information about that), which the Examiner have just published. That was May. Training methods 1.5 years into Gerald Mac's 2 year stint as Cork boss were fine at that point. For some reason now, the Cork panel want us to believe that things deteriorated so badly in the 3 months after that, that they would completely backtrack on their analysis of his first year and a half in charge? I'm sorry but thats a bit of a stretch.

Look at the timelines above. Compare the contentment within the camp to the manager they had and the success they were enjoying. McCarthy was ok for the first year and a half, but not now? Why did O'Grady resign? Why did Allen resign? The panel now is pretty much as it was then. Whatever about O'Grady (who I think the Cork panel want a carbon copy of for their next manager), I wouldn't be surprised if there was more than met the eye when Allen departed.

Yep, its all speculation, and possibly idle, but look at the facts and then draw your own conclusion.

[The GAA]

Some of that doesn't make sense bt.

obviously O'Grady was the messiah for them and set in place standards and training that han't been matched since in a time where even standing still is losing ground.
like you, i don't know what happened with allen but i suspect that he just found himself a bit short and moved on. an excert from kieran shannon's piece on the situation accurately sets out the players' position on gerald:

At the start Gerald didn't want it and they didn't want him. They had a winning formula, one that facilitated them to become the first Munster county in over 60 years to contest four consecutive All Ireland finals; not even Cody's Kilkenny had managed that. But then when he had accepted it they had to accept him. Along with Jimmy Barry Murphy he was the county's most decorated player since Ring. At his first meeting with them he told them only the managerial faces had changed; the managerial systems would be merely tweaked, not dismantled; he was into evolution, not revolution.

The old doubts though weren't long resurfacing. When the team showed up at Lawlor's Hotel in Dungarvan before a Waterford Crystal game that January, their pre-match meal consisted of a plate of sandwiches loaded with butter and mayonnaise. Under O'Grady and Allen, pre-match food would have consisted of chicken, pasta, yoghurt and fruit, the kind of preparatory detail which the cyberspace cynics bash the likes of Cusack and Ó hAilpín for yet laud the likes of O'Connell and O'Gara for.

One drill was of particular concern to the players. Six men in one line facing infield, six in another facing them, between them, six poles in a straight line for them to solo zig-zag through. Player One goes. Solo in open space for a few yards, negotiate the six poles, solo in some more open space for a few yards, pass the ball off to the man first in line and then go back to the end. Players felt they were standing around idle for too long waiting for their next go.

When the players convened a meeting last October to discuss the county board's controversial decision to remove the next football manager's right to appoint his own selectors, the topic of whether to remove McCarthy as hurling manager was floated. In the end, they agreed it would be premature to move against him, especially as McCarthy, to his credit, had initiated a review meeting with player representatives in which he was open to change and ideas.

The Sunday after this year's Munster semi-final defeat to Tipperary though, the notion was touted again at a meeting of the players reps. Training had improved but only marginally so. They also found his relationship and familiarity with too many players odd to say the least.

They hadn't deserved to beat Kilkenny, either on the day or in the lead up to it. That summer Gerald had instructed the players to be on the field for training at 10 to seven every night yet too often he wasn't there. And when it had started, it was still too pedestrian and that was reflected in their hurling. The sharpness wasn't there to compete with Kilkenny.

"People say the players want to run the show, that they won't listen to anyone,'" says one player. "But under [Donal O'] Grady, we were more than happy to do what we were told. It was reflected on the field. We didn't have the same confidence in Gerald's coaching."

It was a judgement which they didn't want or think they'd have to declare. The mood within the county in September was that Gerald would get out after an average if respectable stint, but when the two players representatives, Cusack and Ó hAilpín, met with the five other members of the selection committee at a meeting in Páirc Uí Chaoimh on Friday, 10 October, Gerald's was the only name the five raised. At one point county chairman Mick Dolan left to establish by phone if McCarthy was interested and McCarthy verified he was.

That certainly destroys the notion that the players had been happy with gerald until very recently

[orangeman]

Some of that doesn't make sense bt.

obviously O'Grady was the messiah for them and set in place standards and training that han't been matched since in a time where even standing still is losing ground.
like you, i don't know what happened with allen but i suspect that he just found himself a bit short and moved on. an excert from kieran shannon's piece on the situation accurately sets out the players' position on gerald:

At the start Gerald didn't want it and they didn't want him. They had a winning formula, one that facilitated them to become the first Munster county in over 60 years to contest four consecutive All Ireland finals; not even Cody's Kilkenny had managed that. But then when he had accepted it they had to accept him. Along with Jimmy Barry Murphy he was the county's most decorated player since Ring. At his first meeting with them he told them only the managerial faces had changed; the managerial systems would be merely tweaked, not dismantled; he was into evolution, not revolution.

The old doubts though weren't long resurfacing. When the team showed up at Lawlor's Hotel in Dungarvan before a Waterford Crystal game that January, their pre-match meal consisted of a plate of sandwiches loaded with butter and mayonnaise. Under O'Grady and Allen, pre-match food would have consisted of chicken, pasta, yoghurt and fruit, the kind of preparatory detail which the cyberspace cynics bash the likes of Cusack and Ó hAilpín for yet laud the likes of O'Connell and O'Gara for.

One drill was of particular concern to the players. Six men in one line facing infield, six in another facing them, between them, six poles in a straight line for them to solo zig-zag through. Player One goes. Solo in open space for a few yards, negotiate the six poles, solo in some more open space for a few yards, pass the ball off to the man first in line and then go back to the end. Players felt they were standing around idle for too long waiting for their next go.

When the players convened a meeting last October to discuss the county board's controversial decision to remove the next football manager's right to appoint his own selectors, the topic of whether to remove McCarthy as hurling manager was floated. In the end, they agreed it would be premature to move against him, especially as McCarthy, to his credit, had initiated a review meeting with player representatives in which he was open to change and ideas.

The Sunday after this year's Munster semi-final defeat to Tipperary though, the notion was touted again at a meeting of the players reps. Training had improved but only marginally so. They also found his relationship and familiarity with too many players odd to say the least.

They hadn't deserved to beat Kilkenny, either on the day or in the lead up to it. That summer Gerald had instructed the players to be on the field for training at 10 to seven every night yet too often he wasn't there. And when it had started, it was still too pedestrian and that was reflected in their hurling. The sharpness wasn't there to compete with Kilkenny.

"People say the players want to run the show, that they won't listen to anyone,'" says one player. "But under [Donal O'] Grady, we were more than happy to do what we were told. It was reflected on the field. We didn't have the same confidence in Gerald's coaching."

It was a judgement which they didn't want or think they'd have to declare. The mood within the county in September was that Gerald would get out after an average if respectable stint, but when the two players representatives, Cusack and Ó hAilpín, met with the five other members of the selection committee at a meeting in Páirc Uí Chaoimh on Friday, 10 October, Gerald's was the only name the five raised. At one point county chairman Mick Dolan left to establish by phone if McCarthy was interested and McCarthy verified he was.

That certainly destroys the notion that the players had been happy with gerald until very recently

This piece was written recently and it is easy for a sympathetic journalist to write whateer he wants -


Can anyone put up the bit in today's Examiner that BT has alluded to about the players' support for Mc Carthy in May ? Thanks - it might throw another light on things.

[The GAA]

I've left all the specific examples shannon cites of poor management by McCarthy.

what aspects of shannon's artcile do you feel is inaccurate then?

[Reillers]

I've asked it before

Who do the Cork players want as manager?

they want another John Allen type figure. Basically, someone who will sit back and let the players do what they want.

what they don't want is a manager with knowledge of the game, opinions on the game, and their own methods and ways of doing things.

I think we have come to the crux of the issue over the past few posts though. This is about finding a scapegoat for either losing to Kilkenny/not winning an all-Ireland this year (take your pick). The players seem quite willing to play the blame game and point the finger in every direction except their own.

And how can anyone say Gerald MacCarthy is a bad manager? The only basis I've heard to argue that case is that he didn't know what club Timmy McCarthy was from. So what. All that should concern Gerald Mac is what Timmy does for Cork, and nothing else. Gerald Mac has pedigree. He put the foundations in place for the great Waterford teams we've seen this decade. He has the all-Ireland medals. And hes genuinely a nice bloke (yes, I've met him). I think his statement is excellent and hits the nail on the head. But I feel sorry that hes become the one who has to take this challenge to the players. Either way he will end up not managing Cork again. The bigger choice hes faced with is, do I walk away now, or do I stand up to the players and try to make things better for whoever does take over.

And are the players completely stupid? Do they think anyone in their right mind will want the Cork job after this?

You think that Donal O Grady let them do what they want, or even Allen for that matter. You really are dellusioned.
They didn't let them do what they wanted but they were, under Allen allowed discuss it. Under that set up of O Grady and Allen things worked extremley well.

This is NOT about finding a scape goat. This is about a manager with a very, very poor record with Cork as manager.
Poor tactics, poor selections, poor poor training.
As a player he has medals and as a manager way back when like 20 years ago, he did well.
But now, now he's been poor, even the most idiotic, simple fans can see that he is a bad manager.

They know they weren't good enough, but they all know that they are not getting the best chance under Gerald. Everyone can see that, any half fan with a brain.
How is not knowing what club Timmy Mac played for not important.

He's, as good as a player and manager he WAS, that doesn't make him a good Cork manager.

That's clear to even the most half brained simple GAA fan.

His record has been appauling with the Cork scene. I know it, everyone knows it, and the board know it. The ONLY reason he was put back in is because the board knew full well that a few senior players would leave. Gerald is only a pawn in this. They will wash their hands of him in a second and wont look back. Just as soon as the senior 2002 group are gone Gerald mac wiill be out the door in a split second. It's just a pity that he doesn't realise that.
The board know that he's a bad manager, but they keep him in anyway, to use him and then as soon as things go pear shape, which they will, he'll be out the door in a second and the board will wash their hands of him and squirm out of the mess that they've created themselves.

Gerald Mac is a bad manager, and the only reason he's been kept in the job is because he's being used as a pawn in the boards pathetic little game.

[orangeman]

I've left all the specific examples shannon cites of poor management by McCarthy.

what aspects of shannon's artcile do you feel is inaccurate then?

I'm not saying it is innacurate at all as I'm not on the ground down there - you are ! But I'm saying it was written retrospectively - I'm wondering what was written in May time ?