The Heineken Cup Thread

[Declan]

Interesting story about Cronin - he's not much of a drinker and after the England this year he was on the mic on the bus, making an eejit of himself, Mick Kearney (Team Manager) tried to take the mic off him and words ensued. After things had calmed down Kidney came down to Cronin for a quiet word and remind him off his responsibilities finishing up with "Going forward Sean if you want to be a part of the Irish Set up you will have to look at your behaviour today and apologise for it". Cronin's response was "After that display today Deccie it's not me that has to worry about been part of the Irish set-up going forward"

I'd say Deccie loved that

[trileacman]

The main concern here is are we reaching a point where the physicality of the game is going to lead to more and more players retiring due to injury. The worse thing is that we won't hear of the most careers ending with an injury as those players will never reach their potential, I'm thinking along the lines of Thom Evans, Fogarty, Best, Jackman and some less publicised cases. I think rugby is now in the group of sports who must consider the long-term health implications for players.

[RadioGAAGAA]

Don't think Toner will make it tbh, his centre of gravity is too high which makes him ineffective at rucking, scrummaging and carrying. A good line-out operator he might be but I don't think it overrides his deficiencies in the engine room of the team.

If he keeps improving at the rate he did this year, him and Dan Tuohy will make a helluva good second row for Ireland.

Madigan seems a nice player, potential there.

He would be on the plane for NZ if it were not for that one-eyed clown picking the squad - what is Ronan O'Gara going to do in the next world cup? Madigan is widely recognised as the best passer in the country.

Over the next year, Jonny Sexton will increasingly be looking over his shoulder at Madigan. In 2014... one of them will have to leave Leinster to play regular HEC rugby. So Keatley and Jackson have until then to stake their claim in their respective provinces.

What you make of Kearney junior? What's his long term position?

Winger - as his bro is a better full back.

Again, if it weren't for the clown picking the squad, he'd be in ahead of Simon Zebo (who has so many big deficiencies to his game its astounding he has been picked).

Unsure of Cronin too, is he capable enough at the line-out to be world class? I doubt it. What does Strauss have that Cronin doesn't?

Strauss has the slightly better throw. Both need to work on it.

Cronin has searing pace though if he can sort his hands. Last year in Connacht, he was the quickest player there over the ground... for reference that squad included Fionn Carr.

[johnneycool]

The main concern here is are we reaching a point where the physicality of the game is going to lead to more and more players retiring due to injury. The worse thing is that we won't hear of the most careers ending with an injury as those players will never reach their potential, I'm thinking along the lines of Thom Evans, Fogarty, Best, Jackman and some less publicised cases. I think rugby is now in the group of sports who must consider the long-term health implications for players.

What next, American football style padding?

[trileacman]

The main concern here is are we reaching a point where the physicality of the game is going to lead to more and more players retiring due to injury. The worse thing is that we won't hear of the most careers ending with an injury as those players will never reach their potential, I'm thinking along the lines of Thom Evans, Fogarty, Best, Jackman and some less publicised cases. I think rugby is now in the group of sports who must consider the long-term health implications for players.

What next, American football style padding?

Quite a few players wear padding as it is.

[screenexile]

Don't think Toner will make it tbh, his centre of gravity is too high which makes him ineffective at rucking, scrummaging and carrying. A good line-out operator he might be but I don't think it overrides his deficiencies in the engine room of the team.

If he keeps improving at the rate he did this year, him and Dan Tuohy will make a helluva good second row for Ireland.

Madigan seems a nice player, potential there.

He would be on the plane for NZ if it were not for that one-eyed clown picking the squad - what is Ronan O'Gara going to do in the next world cup? Madigan is widely recognised as the best passer in the country.

Over the next year, Jonny Sexton will increasingly be looking over his shoulder at Madigan. In 2014... one of them will have to leave Leinster to play regular HEC rugby. So Keatley and Jackson have until then to stake their claim in their respective provinces.

What you make of Kearney junior? What's his long term position?

Winger - as his bro is a better full back.

Again, if it weren't for the clown picking the squad, he'd be in ahead of Simon Zebo (who has so many big deficiencies to his game its astounding he has been picked).

Unsure of Cronin too, is he capable enough at the line-out to be world class? I doubt it. What does Strauss have that Cronin doesn't?

Strauss has the slightly better throw. Both need to work on it.

Cronin has searing pace though if he can sort his hands. Last year in Connacht, he was the quickest player there over the ground... for reference that squad included Fionn Carr.

Should Gilroy not have been given a chance in New Zealand or at least been a part of the tour party for some experience?!

[Crete Boom]

The main concern here is are we reaching a point where the physicality of the game is going to lead to more and more players retiring due to injury. The worse thing is that we won't hear of the most careers ending with an injury as those players will never reach their potential, I'm thinking along the lines of Thom Evans, Fogarty, Best, Jackman and some less publicised cases. I think rugby is now in the group of sports who must consider the long-term health implications for players.

In Fairness bar Tom Evans Fogarty, Best  and Jackman had reached their potential. John Fogarty was 32 when he retired and he played over a 100 games with Connacht and while he was a good club pro he wasn't international standard( a legend for Connacht all the same). Simon Best again made 115 appearances for Ulster and captained them to a Celtic league title but had plenty of chances at international level particularly after Emmet Byrne retired. Bernard Jackman played for Connacht ( two stints) , Sale and Leinster( where he won a Heineken Cup). While he was dynamic in the loose and solid in the scrum his throwing let him down all through his career hence the relative few caps for Ireland.
Also Jackman was 34 when he retired , Best retired because of a rare heart condition which had nothing to do with physical exchanges and Fogarty(who was 32) retired due to recurring concussions which if the cognitive rules on concussion injuries were enforced by the IRB this would have be greatly reduced!

[RadioGAAGAA]

Should Gilroy not have been given a chance in New Zealand or at least been a part of the tour party for some experience?!

Yep - again, blame the one eyed clown that picks the squad.


Both Gilroy and DKearney are significantly further along in their development than Zebo. But, neither Gilroy or DKearney play for Munster...

[Crete Boom]

Should Gilroy not have been given a chance in New Zealand or at least been a part of the tour party for some experience?!

Yep - again, blame the one eyed clown that picks the squad.


Both Gilroy and DKearney are significantly further along in their development than Zebo. But, neither Gilroy or DKearney play for Munster...

I personally would have Madigan in instead of O Gara and would leave Darcy at home so you could at least try McFadden or Drico at 12. Also I would have D. Kearney in and probably pick one of Gilroy/Zebo/Tiernan O' Halloran. In the forwards I would have taken Toner or maybe Ian Henderson instead of O' Callahan, Dominic Ryan instead of Ferris and Rhys Ruddock or John Muldoon instead of O' Brien ( purely becauuse both were carrying serious injuries into the Heiniken cup final). Also from left field I would have found space for Luke McGrath or more conservatively Paul Marshall at scrum half cause while Reddan is decent at club level he just can't cut it at international level unless getting an armchair ride form the pack!
This crap that to beat New Zealand we have to put out our full team in all three tests is a fairytale. Can anyone tell me what was the closest we came to beating New Zealand since the game started to go pro after the 87 world cup?.......................
Of course everybody knows it was the first test of the famous 1992 tour where we lost 24-21 in Carrisbrook after leading till the last 10 mins of the game! Still doesn't ring a bell? Well maybe all the batlled scared vertan players on the team will jog the auld memory :
15: Jim Staples (10th cap)
14: Ronnie Carey (first cap)
13: Philip Danagher (9th cap)
12: Vincent Cunnighham (7th cap)
11: Neville Furlong (first cap)
10: Peter Russell (first cap)
9: Mick Bradley  (23rd cap)
8: Kelvin Leahy ( first cap)
7: Brian Robinson (10th cap)
6: Mick Fitzgibbon (first cap)
5: Paddy Johns (2nd cap)
4: Mick Galway (5th cap)
3: Paul McCarthy (first cap)
2: Steve Smith (16th cap)
1: Nick Popplewell (8th cap)

(Drico and ROG have more caps individually than all the above team )

And just if you think the all blacks had some backwater junior provincial team out that day it contained legends such as Sean Fitzpatrick, Ian Jones , Jamie Joseph, Walter Little , Frank Bunce , John Kirwan and ( just poached from Western Soma and the original Lomu) Inga Tuigamala!

[RadioGAAGAA]

Cannot disagree with one word of that post Crete Boom.


I suspect your watching this site with baited breath too...

http://www.kidneyclock.net/

[Crete Boom]

Cannot disagree with one word of that post Crete Boom.


I suspect your watching this site with baited breath too...

http://www.kidneyclock.net/

I'm sure the leinster boys check in on that one daily

Seriously though I'm a fan of Kidney's I just think he was given the Irish job too late! Really I wanted him to take over from Gatland. For all Eddie O Sullivan's acheivements he was even more conservative than Kidney and while it would have been a hard call the IRFU should have made that call and chose Kidney there and then( shades of what my own county did with John O' Mahoney). The game has moved on rapidly fom the 2007 world cup and unfortunately while undoubtley a great leader and motivator Kidney is just an old school conservative first generation pro Rugby coach. He really should have been up for review after the World cup which looking at the 3 years previous ruthlessly he would have been replaced with someone like Wayne Smith if going for experience or for a home grown coach Connor o' Shea or Brian McLoughlin.

[Orchardman]

Toner is still filling out his body, his height is advantage come scrum and obviously line-out time. Like Hound I agree that his ball carrying has improved but Trileacman has pointed his biggest deficiency, his rucking and it's just not good enough but he is a better option than DOC. He will come good.

Interesting story about Cronin - he's not much of a drinker and after the England this year he was on the mic on the bus, making an eejit of himself, Mick Kearney (Team Manager) tried to take the mic off him and words ensued. After things had calmed down Kidney came down to Cronin for a quiet word and remind him off his responsibilities finishing up with "Going forward Sean if you want to be a part of the Irish Set up you will have to look at your behaviour today and apologise for it". Cronin's response was "After that display today Deccie it's not me that has to worry about been part of the Irish set-up going forward"

Funny story alright, but is it even true?

[michaelg]

Should Gilroy not have been given a chance in New Zealand or at least been a part of the tour party for some experience?!

Yep - again, blame the one eyed clown that picks the squad.


Both Gilroy and DKearney are significantly further along in their development than Zebo. But, neither Gilroy or DKearney play for Munster...

I personally would have Madigan in instead of O Gara and would leave Darcy at home so you could at least try McFadden or Drico at 12. Also I would have D. Kearney in and probably pick one of Gilroy/Zebo/Tiernan O' Halloran. In the forwards I would have taken Toner or maybe Ian Henderson instead of O' Callahan, Dominic Ryan instead of Ferris and Rhys Ruddock or John Muldoon instead of O' Brien ( purely becauuse both were carrying serious injuries into the Heiniken cup final). Also from left field I would have found space for Luke McGrath or more conservatively Paul Marshall at scrum half cause while Reddan is decent at club level he just can't cut it at international level unless getting an armchair ride form the pack!
This crap that to beat New Zealand we have to put out our full team in all three tests is a fairytale. Can anyone tell me what was the closest we came to beating New Zealand since the game started to go pro after the 87 world cup?.......................
Of course everybody knows it was the first test of the famous 1992 tour where we lost 24-21 in Carrisbrook after leading till the last 10 mins of the game! Still doesn't ring a bell? Well maybe all the batlled scared vertan players on the team will jog the auld memory :
15: Jim Staples (10th cap)
14: Ronnie Carey (first cap)
13: Philip Danagher (9th cap)
12: Vincent Cunnighham (7th cap)
11: Neville Furlong (first cap)
10: Peter Russell (first cap)
9: Mick Bradley  (23rd cap)
8: Kelvin Leahy ( first cap)
7: Brian Robinson (10th cap)
6: Mick Fitzgibbon (first cap)
5: Paddy Johns (2nd cap)
4: Mick Galway (5th cap)
3: Paul McCarthy (first cap)
2: Steve Smith (16th cap)
1: Nick Popplewell (8th cap)

(Drico and ROG have more caps individually than all the above team )

And just if you think the all blacks had some backwater junior provincial team out that day it contained legends such as Sean Fitzpatrick, Ian Jones , Jamie Joseph, Walter Little , Frank Bunce , John Kirwan and ( just poached from Western Soma and the original Lomu) Inga Tuigamala!

Do you seriously believe Ferris is not 1st choice No.6 for Ireland?

[trileacman]

Do you seriously believe Ferris is not 1st choice No.6 for Ireland?

He is resting him and O'Brien after a long season. The way Ulster and its staff are treating Ferris' body he may not be playing in a Ireland shirt for much longer, I foresee a bad injury down the line if Ulster keep pushing him out at half fitness.

Toner is still filling out his body, his height is advantage come scrum and obviously line-out time. Like Hound I agree that his ball carrying has improved but Trileacman has pointed his biggest deficiency, his rucking and it's just not good enough but he is a better option than DOC. He will come good.

Interesting story about Cronin - he's not much of a drinker and after the England this year he was on the mic on the bus, making an eejit of himself, Mick Kearney (Team Manager) tried to take the mic off him and words ensued. After things had calmed down Kidney came down to Cronin for a quiet word and remind him off his responsibilities finishing up with "Going forward Sean if you want to be a part of the Irish Set up you will have to look at your behaviour today and apologise for it". Cronin's response was "After that display today Deccie it's not me that has to worry about been part of the Irish set-up going forward"

Funny story alright, but is it even true?

I like to disagree with Dinny on all rugby matters but I'd say this story you could believe.

[Crete Boom]

Should Gilroy not have been given a chance in New Zealand or at least been a part of the tour party for some experience?!

Yep - again, blame the one eyed clown that picks the squad.


Both Gilroy and DKearney are significantly further along in their development than Zebo. But, neither Gilroy or DKearney play for Munster...

I personally would have Madigan in instead of O Gara and would leave Darcy at home so you could at least try McFadden or Drico at 12. Also I would have D. Kearney in and probably pick one of Gilroy/Zebo/Tiernan O' Halloran. In the forwards I would have taken Toner or maybe Ian Henderson instead of O' Callahan, Dominic Ryan instead of Ferris and Rhys Ruddock or John Muldoon instead of O' Brien ( purely becauuse both were carrying serious injuries into the Heiniken cup final). Also from left field I would have found space for Luke McGrath or more conservatively Paul Marshall at scrum half cause while Reddan is decent at club level he just can't cut it at international level unless getting an armchair ride form the pack!
This crap that to beat New Zealand we have to put out our full team in all three tests is a fairytale. Can anyone tell me what was the closest we came to beating New Zealand since the game started to go pro after the 87 world cup?.......................
Of course everybody knows it was the first test of the famous 1992 tour where we lost 24-21 in Carrisbrook after leading till the last 10 mins of the game! Still doesn't ring a bell? Well maybe all the batlled scared vertan players on the team will jog the auld memory :
15: Jim Staples (10th cap)
14: Ronnie Carey (first cap)
13: Philip Danagher (9th cap)
12: Vincent Cunnighham (7th cap)
11: Neville Furlong (first cap)
10: Peter Russell (first cap)
9: Mick Bradley  (23rd cap)
8: Kelvin Leahy ( first cap)
7: Brian Robinson (10th cap)
6: Mick Fitzgibbon (first cap)
5: Paddy Johns (2nd cap)
4: Mick Galway (5th cap)
3: Paul McCarthy (first cap)
2: Steve Smith (16th cap)
1: Nick Popplewell (8th cap)

(Drico and ROG have more caps individually than all the above team )

And just if you think the all blacks had some backwater junior provincial team out that day it contained legends such as Sean Fitzpatrick, Ian Jones , Jamie Joseph, Walter Little , Frank Bunce , John Kirwan and ( just poached from Western Soma and the original Lomu) Inga Tuigamala!

Do you seriously believe Ferris is not 1st choice No.6 for Ireland?

No Ferris if 60% fit is the first name in the backrow for Ireland but if you read the whole sentence I said the reason to leave him and O' Brien at home is that they were both carrying injuries into the Heineken Cup final with Ferris playing on one leg since the quarter final. The knee problem he has is well documented and has to be managed and from what I hear it's in especially bad shape at the moment. Just like they way Aston Villa let Paul McGrath do very light training to prolong his career I think Kidney should take a leaf out of Brain McLoughlin's book and way up the importance of keeping Ferris fit in the long term i.e next season's November's internationals/Six Nations not flog him on an end of year money making exercise especially since we have an abundance of young backrow talent chomping at the bit for game-time.