"fifty Dead Men Walking"

[Minder]

Ironically the German industrialist was thought to have been murdered by on the run tout Roy McShane.

[ardmhachaabu]

Ironically the German industrialist was thought to have been murdered by on the run tout Roy McShane.

You couldn't make it up.  I see the Shinners have went along with the PSNI being subservient to M15 in a somewat related note

[Main Street]

M 15?

good name for a GAA team.

[Ulick]

You couldn't make it up.  I see the Shinners have went along with the PSNI being subservient to M15 in a somewat related note

I don't see how it is "somewat related" (sic) but anyway tell us more. In what way is the PSNI subservient to "M15" (sic)?

[Ulick]

It wasn't just construction workers the IRA murdered. The book '10 Men Dead' cites the case of the young female student murdered for handing out census forms - what a tremendous blow for Irish freedom that was! Traders and businesses were also targeted, while leading German industrialist Thomas Niedermayer was murdered for the grievous crime of bringing jobs to Ireland. All this was in keeping with the IRA 's strategy of coercing people into compliance with their ideas, starting within their own communities. In the very early days of the British Army's arrival in Belfast, republicans had to work hard to convince the nationalist people that Cromwell's men had, indeed, arrived back on these shores. Local people who provided tea for soldiers were warned off. Young women who had the temerity to go out with soldiers were beaten and tarred and feathered. Ireland should be proud of these bold warriors!

Thanks for the history lesson Myles, I'm just going to log onto Willie Frazer's website here for another.

[Nally Stand]

Myles. Any bollocks can pick out one of the minority of attacks on civilians by the IRA but to use one of these attacks, which were in the minority and use it to generalise the entire IRA campaign is cheap, dishonest, and pathetic. If you were so concerned about civilian murder, how come you aren't investing your energy into fervent criticism of the british army and loyalists?

[Puckoon]

Nally, I'll disagree with the last post, and I'll tell you why.
I've tried to understand it, and I'll continue to, however these "minority" atrocities were in their very nature so heinous that it is hard to write them off on the basis of their "infrequency".
(the words in " marks " are so because the validity of you using them has yet to be fully assessed and is subject to opinion).

The IRA claimed to represent and protect the republican and nationalist people. Which means they were part of our population, they came from our towns and communities. As pints has told me a couple times "they fought for us".

If someone from your community who lived a great life, and did many great deeds  murdered a child, would it be ok because it wasn't the norm for him? Or was a minority action and so infrequent that it could be swept aside? Or is it true to say that it'd be the one and only thing you'd ever think about when you talked or thought about that person?

To many nationalists (this one included and it appears I am not alone) the atrocities of the IRA campaign (and I'm loathe to not count "military targets" in this just to keep it simple) are so heinous, bloodthirsty and displayed such an atrocious disregard for the most basic of human rights: life, that it is almost impossible to think of the IRA in any other context other than that of murderous thugs.

Perhaps that is why so many of "us" can be nothing other than appalled and disgusted and why these "minority" events are so significant to us.   

[Myles Na G.]

Myles. Any bollocks can pick out one of the minority of attacks on civilians by the IRA but to use one of these attacks, which were in the minority and use it to generalise the entire IRA campaign is cheap, dishonest, and pathetic. If you were so concerned about civilian murder, how come you aren't investing your energy into fervent criticism of the british army and loyalists?

The IRA's attacks on civilian targets were a regular occurrence,not a 'minority' as you say (and before you start quoting Lost Lives at me again, make sure you've got your facts right this time  ) And I do criticise British Army and loyalist attacks whenever appropriate. On this board, however, there are plenty of people doing that already. I prefer to take issue with the fools who think that the IRA was a good thing, rather than the gang of murderous thugs it was in reality.

[Myles Na G.]

It wasn't just construction workers the IRA murdered. The book '10 Men Dead' cites the case of the young female student murdered for handing out census forms - what a tremendous blow for Irish freedom that was! Traders and businesses were also targeted, while leading German industrialist Thomas Niedermayer was murdered for the grievous crime of bringing jobs to Ireland. All this was in keeping with the IRA 's strategy of coercing people into compliance with their ideas, starting within their own communities. In the very early days of the British Army's arrival in Belfast, republicans had to work hard to convince the nationalist people that Cromwell's men had, indeed, arrived back on these shores. Local people who provided tea for soldiers were warned off. Young women who had the temerity to go out with soldiers were beaten and tarred and feathered. Ireland should be proud of these bold warriors!

Thanks for the history lesson Myles, I'm just going to log onto Willie Frazer's website here for another.

You're more than welcome. You need it more than most on here.

[ardmhachaabu]

You couldn't make it up.  I see the Shinners have went along with the PSNI being subservient to M15 in a somewat related note

I don't see how it is "somewat related" (sic) but anyway tell us more. In what way is the PSNI subservient to "M15" (sic)?

that's right Donagh, pull me up for a typo.  It's just about your standard of "debate"

here's a link for you http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8550638.stm

[Ulick]

that's right Donagh, pull me up for a typo.  It's just about your standard of "debate"

here's a link for you http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8550638.stm

Your link doesn't answer the question or support your original claim. In what way is the PSNI subservient to MI5?

[ardmhachaabu]

Donagh, I gave you the link, I suggest you read it.  If understanding the implications of what is in the article is beyond you, I will certainly not be helping you understand any further.

Thanks

[Ulick]

You said the PSNI is subservient to MI5. There is nothing in that link to support your claim. Now I ask you again, in what way is the PSNI subservient to MI5? Of course you could be just talking bollocks - are you?

[ardmhachaabu]

I already gave you my reply, it doesn't suit you that you heroes are sellout bastards though, does it?

Oh and Donagh, you are the one talking bollocks as usual

[Ulick]

Resorting to personal insults when you've been caught out talking shite? So I take you admit to spouting bollocks? If not support your claim and tell us how the PSNI is subservient to MI5.