The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[armaghniac]

My guess is that effectively Anglo already owned the Quinn Group by then, thus they owned the problem. They simply restructured their own exposure to Sean Quinn's gamble.

The Maple 10 however were outsiders enticed to help by the offer of the unusually low recourse arrangement, as pointed out by Armaniac above.

Whatever the exact extent of ownership of Quinn at that point, Quinn himself initiated his dealings with Anglo in a way that was against their wishes, the subsequent loans were a continuation of this process. The Maple 10 were called by Anglo and offered an enticing deal to support the share price, which is much more clear and direct.

[supersarsfields]

Sean Quinn initiated the CFD deals with Anglo. The loans were to the Quinn Children in the same way as the Maple 10 (Bar the recourse). While most people are throwing them in together, I would have thought a court would have to look at them as seperate entities. Maybe not, maybe there's something in the law that ties them together. But I haven't heard anything in that regard?

[muppet]

Sean Quinn initiated the CFD deals with Anglo. The loans were to the Quinn Children in the same way as the Maple 10 (Bar the recourse). While most people are throwing them in together, I would have thought a court would have to look at them as seperate entities. Maybe not, maybe there's something in the law that ties them together. But I haven't heard anything in that regard?

Liam McCaffrey's letter was dated the 18th March.

".....'I can confirm that as additional comfort in relation to the security on this facility the Quinn family are prepared to support their personal guarantees by giving Anglo Irish Bank Corporation plc physical custody of their shares in Quinn Group ROI Ltd,' said McCaffrey in the letter to the bank....."

The Maple 10 transaction was completed on the 14th July.

While the Quinn children can probably dispute the validity of that letter, it seems to me that Anglo can argue that they believed it was in good faith.

Thus the difference is that Anglo can probably argue that the Quinn's transaction was normal business (of restructuring etc.) while the court obviously didn't accept that the Maple 10 was normal bank business.

[supersarsfields]

Yeah your possibly right  Muppet, to be honest I don't know enough about the in's and outs of what would be classed normal business for banks. I wonder will the other cases go ahead now this year or will they be held of. I think they had 2015 in mind, but that was when they were expecting this one to run all year. 

[muppet]

http://www.rte.ie/blogs/business/2014/04/15/bouchers-veto-is-a-blow-to-states-debt-plan/

Boucher's veto is a blow to State's debt plan

By Business Editor David Murphy

Bank of Ireland's CEO Richie Boucher has waved two fingers at the Government's efforts to resolve the personal debt crisis.

Last week Mr Boucher told the Oireachtas Finance Committee his bank would veto any insolvency deal involving a write-down of mortgage borrowings owed by an owner occupier.

It means that one of the two largest banks in the country has dealt an enormous blow to the agency set up by the State to handle the personal debt headache.


Politicians have not forgotten that it was the taxpayer who rescued Bank of Ireland with a €4.8 billion bailout during the acute phase of the banking meltdown.

[lynchbhoy]

He and the bank are cheeky fcukers

However the shareholders prob will back him on this so he won't get the sack!

The gov should tax the fcuk out of the bank

[muppet]

He and the bank are cheeky fcukers

However the shareholders prob will back him on this so he won't get the sack!

The gov should tax the fcuk out of the bank

Of course they will back him. He is looking after them and his management, and no one else.

It shows the stupidity of a Government putting nearly €5b of taxpayer's money into a 'systemic' bank that was worth €612m the day before, while now that it is making money, it has no intention of honouring any 'systemic' commitments that this, or any, Government may have.

But then this particular bank has form in showing contempt in its dealing with our Governments:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/investigation-exposes-bank-of-ireland-bonus-payments-495877.html

An investigation by the Department of Finance into bonuses paid to executives at Bank of Ireland has found that the bank misled the State and the taxpayer.

It has emerged Bank of Ireland paid €4.3m in bonuses to staff since the introduction of the bank guarantee in 2008.
Another €600,000 will be paid in bonuses this year; another €200,000 in 2012.

The bank also said that €11m may have to be paid to 250 workers this year under certain bonus categories.

Bank of Ireland is now to pay €2m by way of compensation to the Exchequer for providing "misleading" information.

The investigation was launched last December when it emerged bonuses had been paid to senior executives at the bank, despite the fact that management had told the Finance Minister Brian Lenihan otherwise.

Commenting on the findings, the outgoing Finance Minister Brian Lenihan and the Department say they are dissatisfied with the approach of the bank to the investigation process and its definition of performance related bonus, which it says is inappropriate from a bank that has been bailed out by the taxpayer.

[magpie seanie]

Surely we own BOI and AIB now so (1) if they're making money we get it and (2) if we want them to do something, we, the shareholders, tell them to f**king do it.

What is f**king wrong with this country. We'll make the same mistakes over and over again.

[StephenC]

Surely we own BOI and AIB now so (1) if they're making money we get it and (2) if we want them to do something, we, the shareholders, tell them to f**king do it.

What is f**king wrong with this country. We'll make the same mistakes over and over again.

And should the same logic be applied to teachers, doctors etc? We are the shareholders in the education sector so let's just tell them to f**king get on with the new JC syllabus?

[magpie seanie]

Surely we own BOI and AIB now so (1) if they're making money we get it and (2) if we want them to do something, we, the shareholders, tell them to f**king do it.

What is f**king wrong with this country. We'll make the same mistakes over and over again.

And should the same logic be applied to teachers, doctors etc? We are the shareholders in the education sector so let's just tell them to f**king get on with the new JC syllabus?

I don't remember teachers and doctors wrecking the economy recently.

[AZOffaly]

Who do you think taught these hoors?

[magpie seanie]

Who do you think taught these hoors?

Nobody. They were born knowing it all already.

[muppet]

Surely we own BOI and AIB now so (1) if they're making money we get it and (2) if we want them to do something, we, the shareholders, tell them to f**king do it.

What is f**king wrong with this country. We'll make the same mistakes over and over again.

And should the same logic be applied to teachers, doctors etc? We are the shareholders in the education sector so let's just tell them to f**king get on with the new JC syllabus?

Are you serious?

Bankers caused massive jobs losses, tax hikes, the raiding of private pensions and led to IMF boffins running the economy for 4 years.

And you compare this with changing the JC syllabus?

You weren't one of those embarrassing themselves at the recent conferences by any chance?

[armaghniac]

An A from S&P



Research Update:
Ireland Upgraded To 'A-' On Improved DomesticProspects; Outlook Positive
Overview

• We have revised our 2014-2016 average real GDP growth projections forIreland upward to 2.7% from 2.0%.
• This reflects our expectation of a continued strong external performance and a sustained recovery of the domestic economy.
• We are therefore raising our long-term sovereign credit ratings onIreland to 'A-' from 'BBB+'. We are affirming the short-term ratings at'A-2'.

The  outlook is positive, reflecting our view of at least a one-in-three possibility that we could raise our ratings on Ireland again in the next two years.

[seafoid]

An A from S&P



Research Update:
Ireland Upgraded To 'A-' On Improved DomesticProspects; Outlook Positive
Overview

• We have revised our 2014-2016 average real GDP growth projections forIreland upward to 2.7% from 2.0%.
• This reflects our expectation of a continued strong external performance and a sustained recovery of the domestic economy.
• We are therefore raising our long-term sovereign credit ratings onIreland to 'A-' from 'BBB+'. We are affirming the short-term ratings at'A-2'.

The  outlook is positive, reflecting our view of at least a one-in-three possibility that we could raise our ratings on Ireland again in the next two years.

as FF used to say before it all went arseways, a lot done, more (way more) to do