Author Topic: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)  (Read 242887 times)

muppet

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone? (They think its all over...)
« Reply #3420 on: December 21, 2011, 12:09:39 PM »
Quote
You can have free, unfettered capitalism, as long as you allow big business to fail.

This is exactly where it went wrong. We took on private bank debts instead of allowing them to fail, or at least some of it to fail. Imagine if Lenihan had said to jobholders that night 'you get 60c in the €, guaranteed, as long as you sign a full & final settlement within 5 days, anyone who doesn't gets nothing'.
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lawnseed

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone? (They think its all over...)
« Reply #3421 on: December 21, 2011, 01:10:43 PM »
There seem to be rumours of a new currency being formed between the UK and Ireland. The new currency will be basically a merger of Sterling and the old Punt. It will be called the Stunt. There will be 100 pants in a Stunt. Citizens in both countries will be encouraged to put all their pants in the banks to improve stability and to increase the number of stunts available to the banks. Both countries are pinning their hopes on the Stunt and hope that it will restore confidence.

If the Stunt proves a success there are plans to merge both countries. The new country will be called Iruk. Britain will join the new entity on the condition that they do not participate in any way. Ireland will join on the condition that it is frequently praised for being a good Iruker, even if it bankrupts the place.
:D
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thejuice

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone? (They think its all over...)
« Reply #3422 on: December 21, 2011, 02:10:22 PM »
well some good news that our exports had record highs this year. Nice bit of news among all the bad.

saffron sam2

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone? (They think its all over...)
« Reply #3423 on: December 21, 2011, 05:55:00 PM »
well some good news that our exports had record highs this year. Nice bit of news among all the bad.

Yes, but most of those exports left because they couldn't get a job at home.
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muppet

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone? (They think its all over...)
« Reply #3424 on: January 04, 2012, 06:51:04 PM »
Is it any wonder the banks are screwed:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0104/ecb-business.html

Banks' deposits with the European Central Bank have hit a new record high, data showed today, suggesting that lenders remain reluctant to lend to each other amid ongoing market tension.
Banks put €453.18 billion on deposit at the ECB for 24 hours yesterday, breaking a previous record set last week for the facility of €452.03 billion, the central bank said.
Rising levels of deposits at the ECB are seen as a sign of market tension since the money deposited earns an interest rate of 0.25%, much less than the rate available on the interbank market. Heavy use of the facility suggests banks favour parking the money at low interest with the ECB rather than lending it to each other.
Analysts said the new record was due to banks opting to hoard their excess funds at the ECB after borrowing under its new three-year lending facility.
The ECB agreed last month to loan a record €489.2 billion to 532 banks in a three-year refinancing operation in a bid to avert a possible credit crunch.


This money is put on deposit for an annualized rate of 0.25%.

But a significant number of banks are borrowing from the ECB under the new 3 year lending programme at 1.75%.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that borrowing (in desperation) at 1.75% and making 0.25% won't last long.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 01:11:14 PM by muppet »
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muppet

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone? (They think its all over...)
« Reply #3425 on: January 09, 2012, 01:14:11 PM »
http://politico.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8189&Itemid=882&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Politicoie+%28Latest+from+Politico.ie%29

Vincent Browne talking about the deal that just won't go away, The Maple 10.

The most pertinent points are:

Drumm said: "The Financial Regulator and the Central Bank were in every meeting with me and other directors of the bank throughout 2008."

Referring to that transaction, he said: "That was the solution to a problem, which went to the very destruction of the Irish financial system and hence the government, and through its offices, through the Central Bank and through the regulator, they were pushing the bank like hell to fix the problem."


And:

Drumm was asked, who, in addition to the Financial Regulator at the time, knew about what was going on. He replied: "John Hurley was the governor of the Central Bank. I spent a huge amount of time with John. He told me that he was reporting daily to the Minister for Finance [Brian Cowen]."

He elaborated: "They called me day after day after day, to find out how it was going and when we called them up and said we are thinking of doing something with private investors, I then went down and sat with them and explained what we were going to do. 'Let's get this done.' Frankly they were thrilled, chirpy, because the fear factor [of a financial collapse] was just huge."


If the above were true it would mean that the Irish government approved the manipulation and deception of the markets. Just like Greece.
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supersarsfields

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone? (They think its all over...)
« Reply #3426 on: January 09, 2012, 01:36:05 PM »
Ummmm lending money to prop up share prices.

Rings a bell.

In all honestly Muppet as I know you keep a close look at this and the bail out in general what would be your gut feeling about this? ( I know my interest is mostly on the SQ aspect but leaving that to an aside).
Do you believe Drumm regarding the fact that the gov not only knew about the deal but were actively involved in it and therefore involved in the deception of the markets? Or would you believe that Drumm is just trying to limit his liability?

Just out of interest as I know there is alot of information and misinformation flying around regarding this so would be interested to hear which side you believe is more likely? Obviously no one can say for definite at this stage so just your gut instinst?

Denn Forever

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone? (They think its all over...)
« Reply #3427 on: January 09, 2012, 01:39:22 PM »
For those who don't know (me), who is this Drumm guy?  Double jobing in the HSE?
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muppet

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone? (They think its all over...)
« Reply #3428 on: January 09, 2012, 01:51:31 PM »
Ummmm lending money to prop up share prices.

Rings a bell.

In all honestly Muppet as I know you keep a close look at this and the bail out in general what would be your gut feeling about this? ( I know my interest is mostly on the SQ aspect but leaving that to an aside).
Do you believe Drumm regarding the fact that the gov not only knew about the deal but were actively involved in it and therefore involved in the deception of the markets? Or would you believe that Drumm is just trying to limit his liability?

Just out of interest as I know there is alot of information and misinformation flying around regarding this so would be interested to hear which side you believe is more likely? Obviously no one can say for definite at this stage so just your gut instinst?

1) David Drumm formerly of Anglo (not Professor Drumm of the HSE) is not the only person saying this type of thing, there are others such as Denis Casey formerly of IL&P who has sworn under oath that the regulator knew of the €7bn loans from IL&P to Anglo.
2) There is no way any bank on the planet post-Lehmans would have lent €7bn to Anglo-Irish bank without some very important people either pressurizing them to do so, or guaranteeing the money in some way. It could easily be argued that this was another deception of the markets and either IL&P were incredibly reckless in doing so, or a higher power gave the nod.
3) There is obviously a reason why Drumm, Fitzpatrick and co are not in jail. My guess is that they would bring some very important people with them. Cowen & Lenihan were dispensable as we have seen. Kenny and in particular the abrasive Noonan appear to be unable to do anything about it which suggest the real power is elsewhere, probably in the Department of Finance. Remember Kevin Cardiff was in the Department throughout the crisis, Cowen & FF were dispensable but it appears Cardiff wasn't.
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whiskeysteve

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone? (They think its all over...)
« Reply #3429 on: January 09, 2012, 03:03:58 PM »
Chief economist of Citigroup to tell RTE that Ireland requires a 2nd bailout according to Bryan Dobson on the tweet machine.

'@bryansixone: Chief economist of Citi tells RTE News that Ireland will need a 2nd bailout. More from David Murphy on 6-1 New'

Back to the markets by 2013 lol
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seafoid

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone? (They think its all over...)
« Reply #3430 on: January 09, 2012, 03:49:31 PM »
Chief economist of Citigroup to tell RTE that Ireland requires a 2nd bailout according to Bryan Dobson on the tweet machine.

'@bryansixone: Chief economist of Citi tells RTE News that Ireland will need a 2nd bailout. More from David Murphy on 6-1 New'

Back to the markets by 2013 lol

Jeff Madrick on Ireland

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/jan/06/europe-cutting-hope/

“And then there is Ireland. The recent experience of this once booming country should be deeply embarrassing to those who advocate austerity economics. For six months early last year, its national income started growing again after a couple of years of dramatic collapse following its own financial crisis. Ireland guaranteed all the debt of its over-aggressive failing banks to appease investors and then paid for it by cutting social spending sharply. Ireland’s leaders said with almost religious authority that this painful self-discipline was necessary to right the economy, and officials in Ireland and across Europe hailed the country’s brief rebound in 2011 as proof that it works. But then the Irish economy plunged in the third quarter of 2011 at its fastest rate ever. The upturn in the economy proved only temporary under the restraints of austerity economics. It may yet need another bailout. “

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muppet

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone? (They think its all over...)
« Reply #3431 on: January 09, 2012, 04:07:51 PM »
This shows how the ECB operates: http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/
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seafoid

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone? (They think its all over...)
« Reply #3432 on: January 09, 2012, 07:38:07 PM »
This shows how the ECB operates: http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/
I am surpised there is a letter. Dick Cheney never wrote anything down and Trichet had a touch of the Cheney. 
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Declan

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone? (They think its all over...)
« Reply #3433 on: January 09, 2012, 10:00:04 PM »
Nothing about this surprises me anymore

supersarsfields

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone? (They think its all over...)
« Reply #3434 on: January 10, 2012, 08:35:03 AM »
Ummmm lending money to prop up share prices.

Rings a bell.

In all honestly Muppet as I know you keep a close look at this and the bail out in general what would be your gut feeling about this? ( I know my interest is mostly on the SQ aspect but leaving that to an aside).
Do you believe Drumm regarding the fact that the gov not only knew about the deal but were actively involved in it and therefore involved in the deception of the markets? Or would you believe that Drumm is just trying to limit his liability?

Just out of interest as I know there is alot of information and misinformation flying around regarding this so would be interested to hear which side you believe is more likely? Obviously no one can say for definite at this stage so just your gut instinst?

1) David Drumm formerly of Anglo (not Professor Drumm of the HSE) is not the only person saying this type of thing, there are others such as Denis Casey formerly of IL&P who has sworn under oath that the regulator knew of the €7bn loans from IL&P to Anglo.
2) There is no way any bank on the planet post-Lehmans would have lent €7bn to Anglo-Irish bank without some very important people either pressurizing them to do so, or guaranteeing the money in some way. It could easily be argued that this was another deception of the markets and either IL&P were incredibly reckless in doing so, or a higher power gave the nod.
3) There is obviously a reason why Drumm, Fitzpatrick and co are not in jail. My guess is that they would bring some very important people with them. Cowen & Lenihan were dispensable as we have seen. Kenny and in particular the abrasive Noonan appear to be unable to do anything about it which suggest the real power is elsewhere, probably in the Department of Finance. Remember Kevin Cardiff was in the Department throughout the crisis, Cowen & FF were dispensable but it appears Cardiff wasn't.

The last point is one that is worrying the Quinn camp and a major reason why they are looking for the court cases to be held outside Ireland. they are of the belief that they won't get justice in Ireland as the Government and the regulator were too involved in the process the whole way through to allow a decision against them. Whether that is correct or not is another matter.