Ulster Scotch

[Flameboy]

quite the condescending little linguistic anthropologist aren't we?


oh dear indeed....

[MW]

Dont give me that "think outside the box" buzzword crap.
Next you will tell me to "get my head out of the sand" "going forward" etc etc.

If I look a few score miles east I see Liverpool, not Scotland, should I therefore translate their accent of the Englsh language into its own language?
Will that make it a language?
Here is a excerp from the official language of Scouse.
"keeeaaaaaaaam down MW, de doo do that dont thee tho!"

Utter tripe, just because you dont agree with people you say they havent put thought into it or thought outside the box!
Believe your own hype MW  

I see little or no evidence of any considered thought about Scottish linguistic history from this or indeed previous posts of yours. Which kind of illustrates my point.

(Neither do I see any attempt to answer my question of what makes a language in your opinion...)

[MW]

Did ye read the Scots language website MW posted? It looks like a dyslexic lad trying to write English. I take his point though, that it is obviously not unique to Northern Ireland, and looks like it even originated in Scotland.

But you can find out more by ...

Contactin yer MSPs

Ye can scrieve til the Memmers o the Scottish Pairlament that has been electit for tae represent ye. Their contact details can be foond in the MSPs section o wir wabsite, although yon section o the wabsite is in English by its lane.

Maybe it's too similar to English to be seen as a language. Maybe at one point it was a language or heading in that direction but has been obliterated by four centures of battering from 'standard English'. Maybe the attempts to reconstruct a langauge from the spoken, standard-English-influenced remnanats are damaging. Certainly as far as NI is concerned some have attmpted to promote Ulster Scots as a counterweight to Irish.

However I would prefer people to look for themselves as you've done and judge  the issue in its Scottish context.

[MW]

i dont want to insult u MW but im really not getting whatever point ur trying to raise?

so if ur saying this so called ulster scots is a language what r u saying that irish people should do about this?

I'm not saying Ulster Scots is a language. I'm saying that maybe the Scots tongue is open to that definition.

[Flameboy]

MW - take a look at a map of scotland...open it up...

Place names like :

Abhainn Dhubh.

Beinn Dearg.

Beinn Bhrotain.

Coille Mhorgail.

Loch an Alltainn Fearna.....

Guess what language the above scottish place names are in?

Thats right - Gaelic aka Irish.

no sign of the bould ulster scots........

[dubnut]

I see little or no evidence of any considered thought about Scottish linguistic history from this or indeed previous posts of yours. Which kind of illustrates my point.

(Neither do I see any attempt to answer my question of what makes a language in your opinion...)

Previous posts!? So you have read almost 700 posts of mine? Well done  

What makes a language is a very complex question, and to be honest I am not going to waste time at work giving my detailed theories on the origins of language just to satisfy you.
In a nutshell, Ulster Scotch is ENGLISH. The only difference being that its typed as the accent sounds.
Can you in all honestly say that is not true?

[Flameboy]

ur silence is all the vindication my salient well constructed arguments need MW........

[ziggysego]

There is a belt of people from Ballymena right over to Limavady and into Donegal that speak Ulster Scot. I do not think they would consider it a Language, but a dialect. The people involved in the Ulster Scot Agency (or whatever the name is) do not and have not spoken Ulster Scot. They got on the bandwagon once the Good Friday Agreement came and discover there was grants for languages.

[dubnut]

There is a belt of people from Ballymena right over to Limavady and into Donegal that speak Ulster Scot. I do not think they would consider it a Language, but a dialect. The people involved in the Ulster Scot Agency (or whatever the name is) do not and have not spoken Ulster Scot. They got on the bandwagon once the Good Friday Agreement came and discover there was grants for languages.

Purely to counter grants for the Irish language

[ziggysego]

That's my point dubnut. But importantly, it isn't coming from speak who speak the dialect, but from others wanting to cash in. I bet you, if you dropped Lord Laird into a Ulster-Scot speaking community, he would not have a clue what is being said.

[dubnut]

Course he would, sure its english!   

[Flameboy]

so its not a case of some misbegotten cultural identity but sheer financial greed on the part of northern unionists?


why am i not surprised?

[ziggysego]

You're misquoting me flameboy. It IS a cultural identity, but people like Lord Laird are using it for their own ends to line their pockets.

[MW]

MW - take a look at a map of scotland...open it up...

Place names like :

Abhainn Dhubh.

Beinn Dearg.

Beinn Bhrotain.

Coille Mhorgail.

Loch an Alltainn Fearna.....

Guess what language the above scottish place names are in?

Thats right - Gaelic aka Irish.

no sign of the bould ulster scots........

If you think Scottish placenames are purely Gaelic, then maybe you should have a think about Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Campbelltown, Kincardine, Dingwall, Stirling, Hamilton...

http://www.fife.50megs.com/scottish-placenames-front-page.htm

[MW]

There is a belt of people from Ballymena right over to Limavady and into Donegal that speak Ulster Scot. I do not think they would consider it a Language, but a dialect. The people involved in the Ulster Scot Agency (or whatever the name is) do not and have not spoken Ulster Scot. They got on the bandwagon once the Good Friday Agreement came and discover there was grants for languages.

I'd broadly agree with some of that, though the Ulster Scots language bodies in the main seem to have developed in the early 1990s.

(Interestingly, in North Down where I'm originally from, the two most prominent 'political' Ulster Scots language advocates are Alliance councillor Ian Parlsey [no, it's a real name] and SDLP representative Liam Logan.)