Censorship on this board

ardasell · September 02, 2008, 01:01:29 AM

Can anyone tell me what is wrong with using this board to query if a very strong rumour has any basis in fact. There were wild stories flying around all day about the health of Joe Kernan. People were genuinely concerned, and as a community of gaels with connections to clubs all over the country, what better way to establish the veracity of the stories, and, as thankfully turns out to be the case, to scotch these rumours as soon as possible, to reduce the obvious negative effects they could have on family and friends, than to post a query on this board?

No-one on the removed thread said definitively that the stories were true, all were asking the question if it was true or not, and some very good souces came on to he spread light on the claims that had the whole of south Armagh (at least) chatting round water coolers, or whatever passes as such in their respective places of work.

So,when, as I said, the truth is revealed, the board falls over in a heap, and all references to the stories, the true facts etc, are wiped.

WHY?

there was no reference to that bullshit about the Tyrone performance having anything to do with it, there was no malice in anything I read on the removed thread, and yet you had slabbers on here shouting about how it should never have been posted. People were ringing into the bloody Newry Reporter to ask them was it true, it was on the TV news later today that these stories had been spread, and that they were false, the Kernan family were inundated with calls to make sure it was not true, and yet here, on a forum for communication about all these related to Gaelic Games (or so I thought) we are not allowed to speak of it.

Knee-jerk - "you can't say that" "how dare you even raise the question" why - it was NOT meant to be malicious, it was not spreading lies, it was looking for truth, and it was pulled. Joe is a hero, a legend, and I am delighted that it seems to be a case of mistaken identity, but come on moderators, a wee bit of moderation.

J70 · September 02, 2008, 01:22:41 AM

The administrators are perfectly within their rights to decide (correctly in my opinion) that this board should not be a vehicle for spreading wild, unsubstantiated rumours. If you find this policy objectionable, find another board. There is no right to free speech here, except within the boundaries set by the administrators.

stephenite · September 02, 2008, 01:30:37 AM

Quote from: J70 on September 02, 2008, 01:22:41 AM
There is no right to free speech here, except within the boundaries set by the administrators.

Well said

ardasell · September 02, 2008, 01:31:12 AM

If you had read what I said, you would realise that it was exactly NOT being used as a vehicle for "spreading wild, unsubstantiated rumours"

Were the words too big for you, or the concept too difficult?

Stories fly about, truth established, stories stop flying about. Does that make it easier.

And who made you the voice of this board anyway. You find another board if you find my comments objectionable.

armaghniac · September 02, 2008, 01:41:28 AM

QuoteAnd who made you the voice of this board anyway. You find another board if you find my comments objectionable. TOOL

Like the famous question about asking someone when did he stop beating his wife, rumours can be spread while giving the impression that you are not trying to spread them. There may not be malice but there should be respect for people and not spreading rumours about them without any real knowledge of the facts.

QuoteAnd who made you the voice of this board anyway.

this board was established by people, who pay for it and make an effort to keep it operational for the rest of us. There has to be some rules and if you don't like them then some other board may suit you better.

QuoteTOOL

your response to an inoffensive reply from J70 says a lot about your commitment to debate.

ardasell · September 02, 2008, 01:57:35 AM

The whole COUNTRY was talking about this today, it was not a few comments in a bar in Crossmaglen. The family and freinds were inundated with calls about it, as I have later learned, so where is the disrespect in asking if anyone on this board could shed light on the issue? If you can explain how questions on here, voicing genuine concern, show disrespect for the Kernan family, then I will stand corrected.
Your comment on the rules of the board are just plain stupid - once again, what rule was broken by the thread? I know what rules MIGHT have been broken if the thead was being used to spread malicious rumours, but it was NOT. Your imagined rule breaches do not actually count.
Your committment to debate is pretty impressive in itself I must say. You do not address the initial premise of the argument, instead you lapse into a knee-jerk reaction to percieved disprespect that you have no knowledge of, because it might have happened, it might have been that way. Is the committment to debate best demonstrated by telling people to dissappear to another forum if they are not happy with the status quo - I would love you on my debating team - what a winner!

J70 · September 02, 2008, 02:04:00 AM

Quote from: ardasell on September 02, 2008, 01:31:12 AM
If you had read what I said, you would realise that it was exactly NOT being used as a vehicle for "spreading wild, unsubstantiated rumours"

Were the words too big for you, or the concept too difficult?

Stories fly about, truth established, stories stop flying about. Does that make it easier.

And who made you the voice of this board anyway. You find another board if you find my comments objectionable. TOOL

Maybe YOU should learn to read. I never said I was the "voice of the board". I said that the administrators had the right to object to the posting of that type of thread and that if you didn't like it, then tough, go somewhere else or start your own forum. I've been on this board for a fair few years, and I think I have a feel for what is and what isn't accepted at this stage, and I was just pointing that out. This type of thread comes up every few months when new people start complaining about why this or that is not allowed in terms of discussion.

And if you cannot see what is wrong with the "concept" of starting threads about rumours that someone like the person in question had died, you're an idiot.

ziggysego · September 02, 2008, 02:08:09 AM

I don't feel any rules where broken and that some of the comments directed at the original poster were unfair at best. It was a genuine query. However it was one I felt should have been best left off the board. What if one of Kernan's family had read the post, all the needless worry and distress that would have caused them. I know of a few high profile people within the GAA who reads this board, so it's not unlikely Kernan's family would too. Plus the BBC or UTV could have taken this as fact and reported it on the morning or early afternoon news. So in summary: No rules broken, the abuse he got wasn't fair as it was a genuine query and not a WUM, but I don't believe it should have been posted.

ardasell · September 02, 2008, 02:33:49 AM

Thanks for a reasoned response, but is it reasonable in this instance?

As I said before, the speculation was rife all over s Armagh. so friends and family had much more chance of hearing it off-line than on this board. Anyone who knows Joe and who read the board could immediatley verify or scotch the story, and, once the truth had been posted, what is the harm in people knowing that a false rumour was in circulation and has been put to bed? Also as I said before, a report of the RUMOUR made the tv news, and they did not see it as censorious to broadcast it.

Is part of a forum like this not to communicate truths and verify facts within this community? the knee-jerk response is to decry the posting - and it is down to personal opinion as you say

But if I was one of Joe's friends or family, unable to get in touch with him or his, because they were flying - (as correctly stated), then I would have thought the fact that apparently reliable and well-placed sources had exposed the story to be a lie, would have been a welcome and useful service to the wider GAA community.

I know I can leave the board if I don't like it - I don't need idiots to tell me that little gem of wisedom. All I am asking is why immediately throw the "baby" of free speech out with the "bathwater" of political correctness and forum regulations?

J70 · September 02, 2008, 02:50:02 AM

Quote from: ziggysego on September 02, 2008, 02:08:09 AM
I don't feel any rules where broken and that some of the comments directed at the original poster were unfair at best. It was a genuine query. However it was one I felt should have been best left off the board. What if one of Kernan's family had read the post, all the needless worry and distress that would have caused them. I know of a few high profile people within the GAA who reads this board, so it's not unlikely Kernan's family would too. Plus the BBC or UTV could have taken this as fact and reported it on the morning or early afternoon news. So in summary: No rules broken, the abuse he got wasn't fair as it was a genuine query and not a WUM, but I don't believe it should have been posted.

I don't what the specific rules are regarding threads of this nature (I would assume they just come under the arbitrary judgement of the moderator), but anyone who has been here for any length of time or has at least some level of maturity would know that it would not be acceptable on this board, for the very reasons you outline.

ardasell · September 02, 2008, 02:50:57 AM

To J7upyourownhole0 To continue this he-said she-said bullshit, I never said you said you were the voice of the board, you just ooze that self-important self -rightousness. I am NOT a "newbie" and despite your probably much coveted "hero" status, I have been on this forum in its various guises since 2001 or there abouts, and I can bombastically proclaim that "I think I have a feel for what is and what isn't accepted at this stage", but I feel it would make me sound like a tool, so I won't bother.

You look down on valid questions from your perch of gaaboard omniscience, I hope it is warm up there, but I just wish you would actually read and respond to what I said, and the reasons I bothered my arse to say it.
Ban it, delete it, down with this sort of thing - you are a "hero", I bet you have the badge to prove it, so mature!

J70 · September 02, 2008, 03:01:32 AM

Quote from: ardasell on September 02, 2008, 02:33:49 AMAlso as I said before, a report of the RUMOUR made the tv news, and they did not see it as censorious to broadcast it.

The rumour itself, or a report about the rumour, after the fact?

Quote from: ardasell on September 02, 2008, 02:33:49 AM

But if I was one of Joe's friends or family, unable to get in touch with him or his, because they were flying - (as correctly stated), then I would have thought the fact that apparently reliable and well-placed sources had exposed the story to be a lie, would have been a welcome and useful service to the wider GAA community.

I know I can leave the board if I don't like it - I don't need idiots to tell me that little gem of wisedom. All I am asking is why immediately throw the "baby" of free speech out with the "bathwater" of political correctness and forum regulations?

Its an internet forum. Who is to say which anonymous poster is credible or not? The fact that we might happen to have someone with known connections who can come on and say its bullshit (and object vehemently to the existence of the thread, if I remember correctly) does not in any way mean that it is ok to start the thread in the first place. What if that poster or whoever else might be able to speak authoritatively on such a sensitive topic (if there are any such people) didn't happen to be around to expose the story as a lie? What if we had no one at all who would be in a position to know, so the rumours went unchallenged and some relative or friend happened to read it here?

Its mind-boggling that this even needs to be discussed.

stephenite · September 02, 2008, 03:07:52 AM

It's mind boggling that someone feels they are entitled to an explanation from a Mod as to why something was edited/deleted. He/She can do what they want - and don't need to account to anyone for it.

Get over it and move on - nothing's going to change because you feel aggrieved.

ardasell · September 02, 2008, 03:15:36 AM

It is not too hard to boggle you mind is it?

People on this board KNOW that there are people on this board well placed, in this instance, to confirm/ deny/ comment on this particular rumour.I would have thought you, the guru, woudl have at least known that. That was one of the points of the post in the first place - do keep up!

It is all about the specifics, not the generalities and "whatiffery" that you are boggling yourself with. This was a massive rumour today, all round this area, and all over the country.

People did not need to go on-lne to hear it. Pick holes in my sentiments all night, but this was a specific posting on a genuine matter concerning a much loved and respected figure-head in this area.

Am I not allowed to ask why it is not allowed? It is a discussion board after all.

What is mind-boggling to me is that you have no clue what I am on about - and I am the immature one.

J70 · September 02, 2008, 03:25:26 AM

If you know of someone on the board who can address such a rumour, then I would have thought that the appropriate approach would have been to send them a personal mail, which is available through this board. Just because everyone and their uncle is gossiping about some issue does not mean that the administrators of an internet forum have to facilitate the rumour.