Tyrone v Kerry All Ireland Final 2008

[charlie stubbs]

Word has it Tom O'Sullivan got injured this morning when he dropped a cup of coffee and damaged his metatarsal after reading steven o'neill was back.....

O'Mahony is also a major doubt amid reports he is aiming to challenge Britain's 14 year old Gold medal hopeful Tom Daley in the 10m Diving event in London 2012.

brian doher maybe not be playing either then...

[Kerry Mike]

With 2003 and 2005 in my mind last night I thought I'd have a look back on the teams from those games.

The Kingdom parts first which is easier to remember and thankfully to forget as quickly afterwards.

Of the Kerry starting 15 in 2003 only Tom O'Sullivan and Tomas O'Se remain from the backs and goalkeeper.
Declan O'Keeffe, Seamus Moynihan, Mike McCarthy, Eamon Fitzmaurice and John Sheehan have all retired out to the long grass. Marc O'Se came on in that game for John Sheehan and scored a point.

Kerry 2005 had Diarmuid Murphy in Goal and he will remain this year, in his dreams he gets a finger tip to Canavan's shot and turns it around the post, he is the hero of the day, but then he wakes up and realises it was a nightmare after all and the wee baldy fecker had actually scored a great goal. He will not want to see Paul Galvin anywhere near his full back line again. Lesson 1 - for Kerry to note, dont get dragged out the field or sucked into positions with no one protecting the square.

In the '05 backs there was a bit more familiarity to the current '08 six, with the 2 O'Se's and the Rathmore duo of O'Sullivan and O'Mahony lining out, with only Moynihan and McCarthy filling the extra defensive slots, their replacements this year will be Killian Young and either Padraig Reidy or Tommy Griffin though I think Griffin will get the role with his versatility. Tomas O'Se with a late goal to give us some final minutes of hope was the pick of the backs in 05.

08 Kerry backs: Full back line is still a big worry though has been shored up somewhat by Griffin. O'Se and O'Sullivan will have a busy day. The half backs need to defend as a priority but also drive on into attack if the opportunity presents itself as they are well capable of.

In 2003 Darragh O'Se and Eoin Brosnan started in the middle while in 2005 William Kirby provided O'Se's back up, this year we will have Seamus Scanlon who I think is a better player in the middle than either Brosnan or Kirby in their heyday, and he gets through an amount of work and complements O'Se well. Both need to improve on the Kerry midfield performances in 03 and 05, though O'Se scored 2 points in 05.

For '03 Dara O'Cinneide was on the forty with Liam Hassett at wing forward, both former winning captains now retired. The third member of the line was Sean O'Sullivan now a sub but moving further down the list with each passing game. O'Cinneide was the only one of the 3 scoring a point and all 3 were taken off replaced by John Crowley (retired), Aodan McGearailt (Retired) and Declan Quill (retired). Quill scored 2 points. Lesson 2 - Kerry half forwards need to stamp their attacking authority on the game and not let the Tyrone half backs dominate as they can.

In 2005 Liam Hassett was again on the wing and again was held scoreless and again taken off replaced by Mike Frank Russell who also remained scoreless, MFR though still in the Kerry panel has not got a run this year. On the other wing was one Paul Galvin, held scoreless and taken off, replaced by a young Brian Sheehan who also did not register any score. Eoin Brosnan was in the centre and though scoring 2 points failed to make a big impact. Lesson 2 - I repeat the above, the vital line for us to win breaking ball around the middle and to chip in with some scores too and to curtail the Tyrone trio. With only 3 points from the previous 2 games from the starting 15's it a big improvement needed from the 08 chosen half forward line. In 08 it will be Declan on in the Centre with the big dilemma for Pat O'Shea on who to pick on the wings, I'd expect Bryan Sheehan and Eoin Brosnan starting but expect to see Paul Galvin and Darren O'Sullivan brought in early just to keep the Tyrone half back line busy, also Sean O'Sullivan, Donnacha Walsh and David Moran will expect to see a bit of time on the pitch.

In '03 MFR was at No 13, he was held scoreless and replaced by Seamus Scanlon. Declan O'Sullivan was at full forward and scored a point while Cooper was in the other corner and also scored a point. The starting 6 forwards that day scored a miserable 3 points between them, which is clearly not good enough to win any game and was mostly down to the total domination of Tyrone. The other 3 points coming from subs.

In 2005 by contrast Cooper got off to a flyer in the game and finished with 5 points in the corner until an eye injury knocked the life out of him, the less said about that tackle the better. Dara O'Cinneide scored 1-1 from the other corner but did not really contribute and was replaced by Darren O'Sullivan who did not score while Declan O'Sullivan at full forward was scoreless. 1-6 was not a bad return on the day from this line but there was little to supplement it from out the field. - Lesson 3 - Need a greater scoring contribution from the inside 3.

The 2008 model will have the novel twin point of attack of Kieran Donaghy and Tommy Walsh with Cooper sniping off the breaks, and Tyrone will not have faced this from Kerry before in the championship. This will be our key potential winning line, if all 3 fail to produce here Sam will be away up the M1 to Tyrone. The ball delivered and how it is managed by both Kerry and Tyrone will be the turning point of the final. Donaghy is key here, his aerial ability and speed of his movement of the ball is vital to get scores for himself or make them for others, going for his 4th final goal and playing against fathers county will be determined to put in a good performance. Walsh is still very raw and will need to stay out of getting involved in any off the ball stuff, but when he gets the ball there is a buzz about him, seems to be improving all the time and is very physically strong on the ball and for a big man has frightening speed, his choice of shooting options at times can be confusing but buried a great goal against Cork. Cooper too seems to be hitting form well as we head into September and another who is looking for his 4th final goal from 6 finals. And we will need a few of them as I dont see us out pointing Tyrone given their recent point scoring exploits.

And the KM review of Tyrone.
In 2003 of the current possible starting 6 backs and goalie, Tyrone had Devine in goal, he had little to do as Kerry never threatened, while in the Full back line were Ciaran Gourley and Ryan McMenimen in the corners with the late Cormac McAnallen at full back. Ryan scored a point in that game.

The 2005 model was changed about a bit with Paschal McConnell in the goals, and his biggest contribution to the day was taking out the Gooch but that's all water under the bridge now, dont think he will play in the final.

Ryan McMenimen was holding his corner position (and Gooch's jersey) and he will be in the same position in 3 weeks time, with Joe McMahon at full back that day in 05 but was replaced by Chris Lawn, and Joe has since been replaced by his brother Justin while moving to the forwards himself. Michael McGee played corner back in 05 and has since gone down the pecking order with Tyrone with Ciaran Gourley now in the driving seat, but will he be picked for the final and more importantly if picked will be deployed on Walsh or Donaghy. The Tyrone 4 jersey will be one of the possibly 3 positional choices that Mickey Harte will have to make. I'd expect plenty of beards in the pre-match parade.

The half back line is now as it was in 05 with Harte, Gormley and Jordan forming a formidable line and like Kerry, offering Tyrone strongest line, Jordan scored a point in that game. I'd expect Gormley to start in the centre and as one of Tyrone better man markers will be on either Walsh or Donaghy depending where they roam. Harte and Jordan like to wander up field and may not be the best defensively so hopefully we can exploit their absence somehow.

In Midfield in 03 was Kevin Hughes and Sean Cavanagh, Cavanagh kicking one point, in 05 it was Enda McGinley and Cavanagh with Holmes coming on early for the "injured" Canavan and we managed to keep all 3 scoreless, (would be nice to see the same result on this Sept 21st), with McGinley then making way for the second coming of the artist known as the Baldy Hoor, but McGinley has been in good form in the middle this year and while not so dominant in the air he has a strong engine and will cover all over the field while Cavanagh is a great player at either full forward, wing forward or when needed for a bit of digging out in the middle. Collie Holmes has been the recent incumbent in the middle with McGinley and I'd expect Harte to throw on Hughes at some stage if its getting a bit physical in the middle sector. The 2nd position up for grabs in my opinion.

Dooher has made the number 10 jersey his own and in both previous games has scored a point in each but he is more than that and is the driving heart of Tyrone, will lead from No 10 again and as captain fantastic will be a handful for Tomas O'Se or Aidan O'Mahony or whoever is detailed on him. I think it will be O'Mahony. The 10m Diving gold medal is up for grabs between these two.

Brian McGuigan has played on the forty in both games and has tormented us both times, scoring 2 points in 03 and going 1 better in 05, though losing a bit of recent form he will be a threat whether he starts or is introduced. His recent injury run seems to have cleared so this will be another of Harte's calls on whether to start him again in the centre or go with the likes of Martin Penrose.

In 03 Ger Cavlan was at 12 and though not scoring contributed well around midfield, he will be walking the dogs on this All Ireland Sunday as he has been retired by Tyrone. In 2005 Ryan Mellon scored 2 points but has since drifted down the ranks but would still be expected to make a contribution if called on. In '08 it looks like converted full back and ardent beard grower Joe McMahon will line out on the wing, he is a handy extra pair of hands around the middle and took his goal against the jackeens very well.

In 2003 the Tyrone full forward line was McGinley with 1 point, Peter Canavan also on 1 point and Owen Mulligan with 3 points, Stephen O'Neill came on for Canavan and scored 3 more.

In the 05 final we were routed by Canavan with 1-1, O'Neill with 4 pts and Mulligan also with 4.  Canavan returned to replace McGinley. Thankfully Canavan retired soon afterwards, we've seen enough of him in Kerry to last a life time. Mulligan was to be the great blonde hope of the future of Tyrone after Canavan retired but seems to have really struggled in his master's absence, cant see him starting in 08 but will be an impact sub if needed.

In '08 its all change in the TY full forward line where Sean Cavanagh has manned the square to great effect but he will drift out the field when required and presents the biggest threat when he runs from the wing attacking the goal. If Tommy Griffin starts he will be on Cavanagh while it could also be left to Killain Young or Tomas O'Se to track him.

Colm McCullagh has really excelled in the playmakers role this year and for a light small fellow he gets through an amount of ball. Can see Marc O'Se sticking to him if possible. While it looks like Tommy MCGuigan will line out in the other corner even if he does not spend too much time there. Have been impressed with him this year and is a good free taker too.

And what of O'Neill, retiring months ago to now suddenly reappear fully fit and rearing to go and to be recalled to the limelight, he will find it very hard to get back into the Tyrone groove and up to the intensity of championship level and whoever's place he takes there will be a certain resentment, but there is a part of me thinking its a bit of a ploy by Harte. Its expected that Kerry will give a run to Paul Galvin which should raise the Kerry crowd and players, but maybe Tyrone will do their own crowd cheer leading if O'Neill is sprung from the bench even just to be seen on the big screen warming up, remember the cheer Darragh O'Se got last week just sitting in the dugout, remember the cheer Munster got in Cardiff in 06 when views of the crowd in Limerick were displayed on the big screen, just a thought, but given the effect of Canavan's re-introduction had in 05 , you would never know with Harte, he's a wily auld fecker.

More on the prospects for the Final for another day.

[Bensars]

Once again KM excellent balanced and accurate

[tyssam5]

"In 2005 by contrast Cooper got off to a flyer in the game and finished with 5 points in the corner until an eye injury knocked the life out of him, the less said about that tackle the better."

Probably right to say nothing since you don't know what happened, unless you were talking to Cooper about it?

Anyway I'm pretty sure the 'injury' happened on about 10 minutes after he had scored a point, he went on to play well and add 4 more points to his tally (2play, 2 frees I think), creating plenty of points for others as well. So to say the 'injury', 'knocked the life out of him' is disingenuous at best.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Great stuff KM 

Makes for an intriguing one all right.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Get your Joe McMahon mask

http://www.takeyourpoints.com/mcmahon.pdf

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Or for those that aren't 'manly' enough (you're covered Rois, or rather, erm... you're not!), or just too late:

http://www.takeyourpoints.com/whiskers.pdf

[Gabriel_Hurl]

that's never Mugsy - not ginger enough

http://www.takeyourpoints.com/mugsy.pdf

[Frank Casey]

Or for those that aren't 'manly' enough (you're covered Rois, or rather, erm... you're not!), or just too late:

http://www.takeyourpoints.com/whiskers.pdf

FSB - that is quite scarey. Mind you Galvin has been known to wear a scraggly feasóg himself

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

FSB - that is quite scarey. Mind you Galvin has been known to wear a scraggly feasóg himself

Indeed Frank, I'm actually modelling mine on Galvin's*, albeit of a slightly 'lighter' shade, but never as brittle or liable to snap 

* féasógín atá agamsa anois, sin an méid 

[Frank Casey]

FSB - that is quite scarey. Mind you Galvin has been known to wear a scraggly feasóg himself

Indeed Frank, I'm actually modelling mine on Galvin's*, albeit of a slightly 'lighter' shade, but never as brittle or liable to snap 

* féasógín atá agamsa anois, sin an méid 

Have you ever heard the expression "more hair on a pound of butter"?*









*For those of you who believe that dairy products only come from the fridge in your local supermarket - please ignore.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

what about midfield?
will holmes start?
cavanagh ff or mf?

Can see Holmes starting in midfield with Mc Ginley, but Hughes will have a big part to play, though not from the off. Cavanagh FF, at least initially.

Should be here, not the Stevie thread!

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Indeed Frank, I'm actually modelling mine on Galvin's*, albeit of a slightly 'lighter' shade, but never as brittle or liable to snap 
* féasógín atá agamsa anois, sin an méid 

Have you ever heard the expression "more hair on a pound of butter"?*

Not quite in that zone Frank in truth, for such a tough nut, what a feeble growth!
I exited left from Galvin's facial growth zone on my fifteenth birthday, fadó, fadó 

[orangeman]

Good post KM ! Well done.

[laceer]

what about midfield?
will holmes start?
cavanagh ff or mf?

Can see Holmes starting in midfield with Mc Ginley, but Hughes will have a big part to play, though not from the off. Cavanagh FF, at least initially.

Should be here, not the Stevie thread!

oops sorry

got over excited there and forgot myself.good work FOSB 

your thoughts on tyrones' mf are like mine..clear as muck 
there's about 6 or 7 who'll be there or there abouts at some stage. i thought mellon was doing well all year.has he a chance?

i think it was oneill who said it before the mayo game - the longer we can afford to leave cavanagh in ff the better we'll be doing