Back door is the front door

[orangeman]

Who is this lad Makem ? Is he a singer or what ?

[Puckoon]

My fears for the status of the provincial titles are a little heightened after a few of this weeks events - including the picking of the all star team.

2 all stars for the 4 provincial champions is a poor return. One provincial champion in the AIF semi finals.

Added to Mickey Hartes comments on the 2009 Ulster championship draw in which he states:

"The way the draw has gone for us, Ulster isn't going to be easy. We play Armagh first and, if we are successful there, we meet Monaghan or Derry.

"So if you had to go to the pin of your collar to win Ulster, I don't think it would be a good idea because you are going to come in a tired team at a time in the championship when that matters most."

I would certainly wonder what shape the provincials will take on in the next 5 years. Surely there must be some bonus (for want of a better word) for making and winning the provincial title.

[Rossfan]

Surely there must be some bonus (for want of a better word) for making and winning the provincial title.

There is. You get straight to the All Ireland Quarter Final.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Added to Mickey Hartes comments on the 2009 Ulster championship draw in which he states:

"The way the draw has gone for us, Ulster isn't going to be easy. We play Armagh first and, if we are successful there, we meet Monaghan or Derry.
"So if you had to go to the pin of your collar to win Ulster, I don't think it would be a good idea because you are going to come in a tired team at a time in the championship when that matters most."

And that's exactly the perspective he had on this year's Ulster too Puck (as I said at the time), not overly fussed about winning it, and definitely not peaking for it (which is not the same thing as going out to lose it).

[Puckoon]

Which sounds like a death knell to me - its the first time (that I recall) that a manager has publically acknowledged that the provincials arent the time of the championship "that matters most".  Or maybe it will mean there will be some variety to the winners of the provincials.

In any way its a different way of thinking from his first few years in charge - where he wanted to win every game, and every competition.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

But he's a pragmatist, and with the raw edge of experience he's now realistic enough to acknowledge that winning every game is not really a feasible aim with the current demands on players over a season.

[balladmaker]

The whole system as it stands is badly flawed.  The provincial championships should be run completely seperately from the All Ireland, they should be two seperate and distinct competitions. 

An open draw is one obvious way to go for the All Ireland or playing it as a Champions League style format where each team gets a series of games, therefore removing any perceived advantages for teams coming from weaker provinces, who only have to turn up to progress to the next round it seems.

I don't buy into the argument that the backdoor is there to give weaker counties greater exposure to championship games, rather than one game a year.  The backdoor system is a money making venture for the GAA, and nothing more than that. 

Open draw and may the best team win.

[Puckoon]

The whole system as it stands is badly flawed.  The provincial championships should be run completely seperately from the All Ireland, they should be two seperate and distinct competitions. 

An open draw is one obvious way to go for the All Ireland or playing it as a Champions League style format where each team gets a series of games, therefore removing any perceived advantages for teams coming from weaker provinces, who only have to turn up to progress to the next round it seems.

I don't buy into the argument that the backdoor is there to give weaker counties greater exposure to championship games, rather than one game a year.  The backdoor system is a money making venture for the GAA, and nothing more than that. 

Open draw and may the best team win.

That appears to be the way we are headed/need to go - but what will be done with the provincials? Will they become the equivilent of the national league in terms of importance?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

The whole system as it stands is badly flawed.  The provincial championships should be run completely seperately from the All Ireland, they should be two seperate and distinct competitions. 

An open draw is one obvious way to go for the All Ireland or playing it as a Champions League style format where each team gets a series of games, therefore removing any perceived advantages for teams coming from weaker provinces, who only have to turn up to progress to the next round it seems.

I don't buy into the argument that the backdoor is there to give weaker counties greater exposure to championship games, rather than one game a year.  The backdoor system is a money making venture for the GAA, and nothing more than that. 

Open draw and may the best team win.

Agree with that, with the exception of the "money making venture" piece. The motives were pure enough, but it's neither fish nor fowl, and will continue to flounder until the bullet's bitten and the provincials as a knockout are completey disengaged from the round robin All-Ireland itself (as you say).

That appears to be the way we are headed/need to go - but what will be done with the provincials? Will they become the equivilent of the national league in terms of importance?

In effect, yes. The League per se, would disappear. In their place we'd have both the stand alone provincials, and the league portion of the All-Ireland (eight groups of four, or six of four and two of five).

[kickingmule]

But he's a pragmatist, and with the raw edge of experience he's now realistic enough to acknowledge that winning every game is not really a feasible aim with the current demands on players over a season.

i did notice one thing this year, from the westmeath game onwards, mickey appeared to be using players in a rotation system, eg. penrose,mellon,holmes,hughes along with brian mcguigan. ..i believe this is a different approach to burnout ...maybe players even getting tired or as the case may be ...  peaking too soon.
lesser known squad players .... but still fine lads, can push for a place in early season games including the championship,  i believe tyrone can win ulster with the squad system ..
your  thoughts would be interesting:

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Agree km, there definitely was a policy of (potentially) sacfricing results with the wider aim of bringing more of the squad up to the Championship mark. And that's an approach that will be expanded upon this coming season, I'd say -- MH was in something of unknown territory (abandoning the win-every-game mentality), and now that it has actually borne fruit, and with the dismal failures to successfully defend in '04 and '06 (unfavourable circumstances notwithstanding), he'll make it his business to be even more effective about it next year.

[Hardy]

What's wrong with "the GAA" making money?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Nothing in the slightest Hardy, quite the reverse; but initiating something to make money, and making money as a result of initiating something -- Qualifiers, for example -- are not the same animal.

[Tyrone Dreamer]

I'm quite sure the idea behind the qualifiers was to promote the games better and ensure that players werent training 6 months for 1 game. Money would not have been an issue - the people who came up with the system would not have received a penny from the extra revenue generated. Something tells me Art McCrory might have been involved in coming up with it - could be totally wrong.

[kickingmule]

Yeah Fear. i believe mickeys focus, may be on moving the game on in that regard, .. burnout, fitness and recurring injury problems to prominent players can be better addressed .... mickey harte is fierce professional in his approach to the game, and will keep pushing the boundries  for the welfare of his players,
as regards winning your province.. it won't be the end of the world, but i still think deep down, he wants to achieve that goal, on his way to retaining sam, with his system in place of course.
getting straight throught to the quarters is the bonus, in my opinion ..... everybody knows the score ... go the scenic route and take your chances,  and as for weaker counties get your grass roots sorted ...... tyrone went down that road.