The Official Golf Thread

[thewobbler]

Not a big golf fan and never really warmed to McIlroy either. However, can appreciate that it's a good achievement to win the four majors. In terms of all-time lists, how would you compare him to someone who maybe won more majors but didn't have the grand slam?

There's of course a wide aspect of subjectively in this. But here goes.

Nobody owns the majors in golf. It's a tradition that started somewhere most likely with Bobby Jones and took off after Arnold Palmer made it a big thing in the 1960s. And the reason there can't be a fifth major is simple enough. Arnie, Jack and a few others who made professional golf into what is, can't go back in time and win those fifth ones. So to become acclaimed as a better golfer than Jack, you have to beat Jack according to the principles that Jack adhered to. It'll never change.

Does this make them a good yardstick of a great golfer?

Short answer is, absolutely.

Longer answer is that by design (Palmer) the 4 tournaments involved are very different tests of golf. The sheer brutality of the US Open, the sheer randomness of the Open, the sheer and exclusive test of the Masters, and the complete  lack of exclusivity, and lesser challenge of the PGA, meaning a siege of lesser golfers can score well.

And whilst majors were always hard to win, it has never been more so the case in the post Tiger era, where there are now dozens of extraordinarily coordinated and focused gym bunnies all vying for and capable of taking a place in history. Tiger changed the game forever by bringing in exceptional wealth and then matching it with exceptional focus on every aspect of his game.

Rory is the first person to complete the set in the post Tiger era. So to summarise. It's a hell of an achievement. He's in the top 10 golfers of all time now. And with a few more titles, could go top 5.

Who's your top 10? I assume we're ignoring pre-war golfers?

Jack
Tiger
Palmer
Seve
Sarazen
Player
Watson
Faldo?
Mickelson?

Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus, Player and Woods are automatic picks. Watson and Sarazen pretty much much there too.

Then it's open field.

I'd have Rory way above Seve myself. Seve was a showman who peaked for 5 years or so. Rory is a more complete golfer, also a showman, and has been mr longevity.

[gallsman]

Is Carnoustie any more iconic than Muirfield, Troon or St. George's? I'd not have said so.

[Puckoon]

To stand out in the current era will always be impressive.

Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus, Player all dominated in an era where it was a more exclusive sport and they had significantly less breadth of talent to avoid in the field. Tiger to a degree had a lesser breadth of talent to beat although significantly different game than when the aforementioned lads were in their prime.

[gallsman]

Mickelson, love him or loathe him, is absolutely right up there too. Doesn't, and won't, have the grand slam obviously but he's finished second, what, 7 or 8 times at the US Open?

[thebigfella]

Seve is no where near top 10

[gawa316]

First Irish man to win it and only Faldo and Danny fecking Willet have won it from the UK...er nevermind feckin ChatGPT failed to mention Woosy and Lyle

[StephenC]

Really enjoyed watching it live last night. My son and I were glued to it and even the missus got emotionally involved towards the end.

Some idiot was cutting onions in my house as I watched his walk from the green to the clubhouse (or wherever they do the formalities). Just amazing stuff - he's just ridiculously authentic. I think that's what separates him from the rest of the global sports stars. It's like watching a child - every emotion is written there plain and easy to see. You could see how nervous he was on the first; you could see his heart break when he chipped into the water; you could see how much it meant to him when he won. There's an honesty to him that I find very compelling.

[Puckoon]

First Irish man to win it and only Faldo and Danny fecking Willet have won it from the UK...er nevermind feckin ChatGPT failed to mention Woosy and Lyle

Woosnam, Lyle?

[Milltown Row2]

Mikhail Prokhorov is still on the missing list, I'm worried about him

[gawa316]

First Irish man to win it and only Faldo and Danny fecking Willet have won it from the UK...er nevermind feckin ChatGPT failed to mention Woosy and Lyle

Woosnam, Lyle?

See edit...AI let me down a bagful!

[SaffronSports]

Would there be a grading system in terms of golf courses? Like the major courses are the most difficult?

I also find golf a bit random in that the best players won't necessarily win. Like most sports are a competition based where you will have the best teams win the Champions League, best player win Wimbledon but there feels like there's more randomness to golf at times.

[Look-Up!]

Not a big golf fan and never really warmed to McIlroy either. However, can appreciate that it's a good achievement to win the four majors. In terms of all-time lists, how would you compare him to someone who maybe won more majors but didn't have the grand slam?

There's of course a wide aspect of subjectively in this. But here goes.

Nobody owns the majors in golf. It's a tradition that started somewhere most likely with Bobby Jones and took off after Arnold Palmer made it a big thing in the 1960s. And the reason there can't be a fifth major is simple enough. Arnie, Jack and a few others who made professional golf into what is, can't go back in time and win those fifth ones. So to become acclaimed as a better golfer than Jack, you have to beat Jack according to the principles that Jack adhered to. It'll never change.

Does this make them a good yardstick of a great golfer?

Short answer is, absolutely.

Longer answer is that by design (Palmer) the 4 tournaments involved are very different tests of golf. The sheer brutality of the US Open, the sheer randomness of the Open, the sheer and exclusive test of the Masters, and the complete  lack of exclusivity, and lesser challenge of the PGA, meaning a siege of lesser golfers can score well.

And whilst majors were always hard to win, it has never been more so the case in the post Tiger era, where there are now dozens of extraordinarily coordinated and focused gym bunnies all vying for and capable of taking a place in history. Tiger changed the game forever by bringing in exceptional wealth and then matching it with exceptional focus on every aspect of his game.

Rory is the first person to complete the set in the post Tiger era. So to summarise. It's a hell of an achievement. He's in the top 10 golfers of all time now. And with a few more titles, could go top 5.

Who's your top 10? I assume we're ignoring pre-war golfers?

Jack
Tiger
Palmer
Seve
Sarazen
Player
Watson
Faldo?
Mickelson?

I believe there's a chubby little lad in North Korea better than all those. Name escapes me.

[thewobbler]

Would there be a grading system in terms of golf courses? Like the major courses are the most difficult?

I also find golf a bit random in that the best players won't necessarily win. Like most sports are a competition based where you will have the best teams win the Champions League, best player win Wimbledon but there feels like there's more randomness to golf at times.

There is grading. Kiawah Island for example is rated about 10 shots more difficult than even most of the PGA tour courses for the "normal" golfer. But that's mostly to do with length and the majority of pros can negate any length thrown at them.

What they struggle to negate is the elements, and treacherous rough.

Sandwich is a perfect example of this. when Darren Clarke won his Open there, he was one of three players under par. 10 years later, Morikawa won and was one of 40 players under par.

Links golf can play very easy for these guys (save for the occasional bad bounce) but it can also destroy them. And truth is nobody really knows what way an Open course is going to play until the weather makes up its mind.

The US Open was always the home of treacherous rough, and the same courses that regularly get taken apart in tour events can turn into unbreakable monsters, once 6" of growth is added in and fairways are narrowed. That said they seem to have eased up a little on this in recent years, partly no doubt due to the run of journeyman winners in the noughties.

Your point re surprise winners is true. There tends to be one comes from the pack every couple of seasons. But that's golf. Every single player on the tour would decimate any club golfer in every aspect of the game. They're just all exceptionally good at everything. Even the worst putters are better than anyone you'll meet at putting. So when a course is playing really tough, if one of the pack can keep it straight and keep bogeys to a minimum then he'll be in contention. When the best players are more likely to pick up doubles than eagles when being greedy, it's a hell of leveller. For they can't afford mistakes either.

Conversely, if the course is playing easier, then the best players tend to dominate the leaderboard.

[Orior]

Really enjoyed watching it live last night. My son and I were glued to it and even the missus got emotionally involved towards the end.

Some idiot was cutting onions in my house as I watched his walk from the green to the clubhouse (or wherever they do the formalities). Just amazing stuff - he's just ridiculously authentic. I think that's what separates him from the rest of the global sports stars. It's like watching a child - every emotion is written there plain and easy to see. You could see how nervous he was on the first; you could see his heart break when he chipped into the water; you could see how much it meant to him when he won. There's an honesty to him that I find very compelling.

Very good post.

It makes me wonder why people don't like Rory yet think that Bryson is a great lad. It's not too long ago that Brooks was telling Bryson where to go.

This clip is hilarious 🙂
https://youtu.be/XM6bTK1diQI?si=V448ZWQx1_omj_Td

[jcpen]

Really enjoyed watching it live last night. My son and I were glued to it and even the missus got emotionally involved towards the end.

Some idiot was cutting onions in my house as I watched his walk from the green to the clubhouse (or wherever they do the formalities). Just amazing stuff - he's just ridiculously authentic. I think that's what separates him from the rest of the global sports stars. It's like watching a child - every emotion is written there plain and easy to see. You could see how nervous he was on the first; you could see his heart break when he chipped into the water; you could see how much it meant to him when he won. There's an honesty to him that I find very compelling.

Very good post.

It makes me wonder why people don't like Rory yet think that Bryson is a great lad. It's not too long ago that Brooks was telling Bryson where to go.

Great golfer and will go down as one of the greatest no doubt now he was won the Grand Slam.

Personally I wouldn't say I don't like him I just don't get the same buzz from watching him win as I did say when Harrington won the The Open for the first time or when he won two Majors in a row a few weeks apart, doubt many Golfers have ever done that?
Same goes from when Shane Lowry won the Irish Open as an amateur or when he won The Open it was fantastic to watch.
No doubt I'll get plenty of hate for saying that but it's just how I feel.