2008 Ulster Club Championships

[Hardy]

No need for the video - you can take my word for it.

I disagree completely that feigning injury has long been a part of the game, unless Paddy joined the army in this millennium. It was unheard of altogether before the eighties. Spillane was the first to flirt with it on one celebrated occasion. It was celebrated because it was new and unheard of. Barney Rock stayed down a few seconds too long once and was famously hauled to his feet by Mick Holden. You'll struggle to find anyone who can give you a third example from the eighties or any at all before that. It was rare enough to be remarkable through the nineties, with only a few notable exponents plying their trade (Martin Lynch comes to mind). But it's out of all control now.

[SidelineKick]

Why should Conway be punished?

Cross players feign injury, Balinderry players feign injury - Dromintee players do it too before you think I am having a go.

Should we make an example of him just because the cameras were there?

I am with you on this one Corn. Unfortunately it is common place in our games. In the first half on Sunday Tony and Steven Kernan both feigned injury in an attempt to get a player either booked or sent off!! Darren Conway did the same in the second half!! In my eyes there's no difference, players will do anything it takes to win a game!!!

When was that? What minutes I would like to go and have a look at it now.  Not saying you are wrong but would like to know which particular incidents you feel they were trying to get a man sent off.  Did they go down clutching their faces?

I don't think the ref is really to blame as mackers said it was his only chance to see the incident while us armchair refs had the benefit of the cameras.  Conway should be punished yes.  If you can't do it when the cameras are there meaning there is NO dispute as to what happened then when can you do it?  If its not nipped in the bud now it will just escalate then we will have nothing more than what soccer is now.  Ten years ago when I loved soccer it was good fair hard hitting football, now its full of f**king pansies. Gaelic is heading that way.

There is a difference in lying down for a few mins to falling to the ground clutching your face to get a player from the opposite teams booked.  Next you'll see players waving an imaginary card to the ref to indicate the player that committed the foul should be booked a la soccer.

Both incidents occurred in the first half. Tony Kernan went down holding his throat and got Wilkinson his second yellow and sent off!! Steven Kernan lay down after an altercation with Kevin McGuckin and got him booked!! Both players were feigning injury in an attempt to get their opponent the line. Unfortunately this is the world we live in guy's. There are no angels when winning is at stake!!

Was there any contact when they went down?
You must have been at the game & watching it very closely because the cameras didnt show the incidents

I WAS !!

So inform us of what exactly happened with these incidents amigo.  I have just watched the Tony Kernan one (or not watched it as it wasnt shown by the cameras). The footage before that shows the following:

Tony loses the ball in the corner.
He tackles Conor and puts him to the ground.
Conor complains and runs towards Tony.
The rest cannot be seen.

Please tell us what you saw...

[Croí na hÉireann]

See, this is what 's most depressing about it - it's gradually gaining acceptance.

I blame David Beggy.

Mick Lyons didn't help either when he got the slap from Colm O'Neill.

What? You surely can't be using the Lyons/O'Neill incident as an example of feigning injury, given that it's most frequently adduced as an example of the opposite - how to react to a real strike, never mind an imaginary one. In case you don't recall, Lyons just rubbed his jaw and walked away. As far as I recall, he also intervened with the ref to ask him not to send O'Neill off. Disgraceful behaviour all right.

Wait a minute, you've just wound me up - right?

I hope I didn't, no. Your recall of Lyons and O'Neill is different than mine. Fire up the video there so we can have a look at it. Failing that I will think of other examples from the Royals.

My point was that behaviour such as Conway's isn't gradually gaining acceptance as you put it. Rather it has been an accepted part of Gaelic football since Paddy joined the army. As long, of course, as it's a player from your team seeking to gain advantage. Everyone else who does it is a cheating ****.

If this is the incident that was highlighted on Lyons's Lochra Gael then what Hardy says is spot on. This whole diving/going to ground has to be nipped in the bud and nipped now. If incidents on telly aren't highlighted and punished then young fellas up and down the country are only gonna try to emulate them. It's make a bollox of soccer...

[amigo]

BOth players tangled and one went down feigning injury!! I am not saying there was no contact made in either incident Sideline. What i am saying is that neither of the players were injured and were merely trying to get their opponent sent off. Is their much of a difference in that and Darren Conway's actions. I don't think so!! I must say as a neutral at the game on Sunday i thoroughly enjoyed it!! I might settle for the TV this weekend all the same if the weather doesn't improve.

[SidelineKick]

Amigo the two points differ for one main reason:

You seen an incident happen and you had that one opportunity to decided what happened.  The referee had the same opportunity for Conway's incident.  he called it wrong.  We seen from the video footage that he called it wrong.  There is a chance that you also did not see what you thought you seen.  So many times you scream "no free" at the tv etc and when it shows the replay you think, "jesus maybe it was a foul".

You're split second opinion cannot be compared to a blatant feign caught on camera.  The difference is it was caught on camera.  It is incidents like these that need to be highlighted to stop this rot before it gets a good hold of our game.

[Bogball XV]

In fairness, White is one of the better refs about, he was praised for his performances in the Championship last suimmer, reffed both Cavan Antrim and the first Ulster Final.
Bogball, the ref red carded McEntee because he thought he caught Conway on the face, in fairness to the ref the TV camera angle was close to that of the ref and I must say that on first glance (and the ref's only glance) it did look like he caught him high. It was only on subsequent replays that we could see that Conway cheated. In this one incident I would not blame the ref at all, i would blame the man that cheated.
The Ulster Council with the benefit of the replays that we have seen reversed the decision that the ref had to call on the spot. Common sense prevailed. It barely merited a yellow card, but then again virtually all fouls are now deemed to be yellow cards.

I know he didn't catch him mackers, but my question is what foul was it that warranted a yellow card?  As for conway, according to the rules he would have been yellow carded if the ref had known what he did.
Another point from listening to the radio, there were men dropping like flies all over the pitch, right in front of linesmen and umpires etc, but every time the ref after consulting with them saw fit to tick or issue yellows?  That is also a total nonsense, either a foul was committed or it wasn't, if it was it's hard to see how it could have been less than a red card.  
The radio lads also said Francie was extremely lucky to stay on - think it was just before the mcentee incident as he'd been booked and ticked and committed another challenge worthy of a yellow.  

[full back]

BOth players tangled and one went down feigning injury!! I am not saying there was no contact made in either incident Sideline. What i am saying is that neither of the players were injured improve.

So everytime a player goes down he is injured??
I would say a player would be hurt rather than injured.
If a true injury was the case every time a player goes down it would end up 5 a side

BTW, is this your interpretation of the Tony K incident?
Kernan tackled Wilkinson & he went to ground
Wilkinson complained to ref & got nothing.
Wilkinson ran after Kernan, when he got beside Kernan, Kernan dropped to the ground 'feigning injury'

[corn02]

See, this is what 's most depressing about it - it's gradually gaining acceptance.

I blame David Beggy.

Mick Lyons didn't help either when he got the slap from Colm O'Neill.

What? You surely can't be using the Lyons/O'Neill incident as an example of feigning injury, given that it's most frequently adduced as an example of the opposite - how to react to a real strike, never mind an imaginary one. In case you don't recall, Lyons just rubbed his jaw and walked away. As far as I recall, he also intervened with the ref to ask him not to send O'Neill off. Disgraceful behaviour all right.

Wait a minute, you've just wound me up - right?

I hope I didn't, no. Your recall of Lyons and O'Neill is different than mine. Fire up the video there so we can have a look at it. Failing that I will think of other examples from the Royals.

My point was that behaviour such as Conway's isn't gradually gaining acceptance as you put it. Rather it has been an accepted part of Gaelic football since Paddy joined the army. As long, of course, as it's a player from your team seeking to gain advantage. Everyone else who does it is a cheating ****.

If this is the incident that was highlighted on Lyons's Lochra Gael then what Hardy says is spot on. This whole diving/going to ground has to be nipped in the bud and nipped now. If incidents on telly aren't highlighted and punished then young fellas up and down the country are only gonna try to emulate them. It's make a bollox of soccer...

Absolutely and I totally agree, it has to be punished much more severly. But my point is that people a re making out as if Conway is the devil here. I am simply saying that he shouldn't neccesarily be chastised so severly as it happensin nearly every game.

[Final Whistle]

amigo in talking shite shocker!!!!

[amigo]

BOth players tangled and one went down feigning injury!! I am not saying there was no contact made in either incident Sideline. What i am saying is that neither of the players were injured improve.

So everytime a player goes down he is injured??
I would say a player would be hurt rather than injured.
If a true injury was the case every time a player goes down it would end up 5 a side

BTW, is this your interpretation of the Tony K incident?
Kernan tackled Wilkinson & he went to ground
Wilkinson complained to ref & got nothing.
Wilkinson ran after Kernan, when he got beside Kernan, Kernan dropped to the ground 'feigning injury'

Well he hardly received the yellow card for diving on the ground !!!

[SidelineKick]

Absolutely and I totally agree, it has to be punished much more severly. But my point is that people a re making out as if Conway is the devil here. I am simply saying that he shouldn't neccesarily be chastised so severly as it happensin nearly every game.

I see where you're coming from corn but my point is, if we can't start to stamp this out by using the televised games with actual non-debatable evbidence, then when and how can we expect to stop this rot?

[full back]

BOth players tangled and one went down feigning injury!! I am not saying there was no contact made in either incident Sideline. What i am saying is that neither of the players were injured improve.

So everytime a player goes down he is injured??
I would say a player would be hurt rather than injured.
If a true injury was the case every time a player goes down it would end up 5 a side

BTW, is this your interpretation of the Tony K incident?
Kernan tackled Wilkinson & he went to ground
Wilkinson complained to ref & got nothing.
Wilkinson ran after Kernan, when he got beside Kernan, Kernan dropped to the ground 'feigning injury'

Well he hardly received the yellow card for diving on the ground !!!

What are you on about then FFS?

[amigo]

amigo in talking shite shocker!!!!

Perfect timing !! Just while we are on the topic of players diving and feigning injury, Final whistle will be able to inform us how his fellow clubmates perfected the art over the last few years!!!! LOL

[amigo]

BOth players tangled and one went down feigning injury!! I am not saying there was no contact made in either incident Sideline. What i am saying is that neither of the players were injured improve.

So everytime a player goes down he is injured??
I would say a player would be hurt rather than injured.
If a true injury was the case every time a player goes down it would end up 5 a side

BTW, is this your interpretation of the Tony K incident?
Kernan tackled Wilkinson & he went to ground
Wilkinson complained to ref & got nothing.
Wilkinson ran after Kernan, when he got beside Kernan, Kernan dropped to the ground 'feigning injury'

Well he hardly received the yellow card for diving on the ground !!!

What are you on about then FFS?

I am talking about Kernan's yellow card !!

[saffron sam2]

No need for the video - you can take my word for it.

I disagree completely that feigning injury has long been a part of the game, unless Paddy joined the army in this millennium. It was unheard of altogether before the eighties. Spillane was the first to flirt with it on one celebrated occasion. It was celebrated because it was new and unheard of. Barney Rock stayed down a few seconds too long once and was famously hauled to his feet by Mick Holden. You'll struggle to find anyone who can give you a third example from the eighties or any at all before that. It was rare enough to be remarkable through the nineties, with only a few notable exponents plying their trade (Martin Lynch comes to mind). But it's out of all control now.

I'm happy enough to give you Lyons. My memory in this case isn't correct.

So did Paddy join the army in the 80s? Anyone who watched Spillane's footballing career would know that was an integral part of his game from before he ever played for Kerry Seniors. Ask Brendan Tully who was sent off in an under-21 semi-final in '74 for allegedly striking Spillane. Ask Gabriel Bradley how Spillane behaved in the AI semi-final of '76. To say that it is recent is wrong. The MacRory Cup final in 1965 was decided by a controversial penalty when the attacking player dived (something he happily admits to know). Greater coverage of games, more camera at games catching more incidents means that it appears more prevalent. Do you think incidents like Conway's or O'Mahoney's are more common now than they were in the 70s. Would Conway's antics even merit a mention here if it hadn't been caught on camera?

One of the main problems is that some of the greatest exponents of such practices (i.e. the biggest cheats) are lauded as some of the all-time greats of the game.

For a middle-aged man, you are being incredibly naive. Is it because I shouted at your mate yesterday?