a great day for football

[Bogball XV]

because you're missing the fundamental point still.Galway don't have the personnel to play the sort of system you're talking about. had they played 12 men defence  ala armagh against wexford they still would have lost. they've played a defensive system for the last 3 years and achieved nothing, so they may as well play the styleof football they always have because they have won  a few all-irelands with it.
Pints when you actaully have something worthwhile to say, fell free to enagage but until then Olympics is on RTE , possibly where you might be better suited to tuning in
But my point on forwards is very valid if you look at the results.
In 2002 armagh had 5 scoring forwards they now have 2
In 2005 tyrone had the same.
The reason why kerry have won so many all-irelands is because they score easier than everyone else, even an idiot knows that. But possibly you don't
Gaelic Football didn't start in 2002 maybe the chickens are coming home to roost on that one. Its still the same game it always was.

I thought your fundamental point was that inferior teams punch above their weight by playing defensive football, I would agree with that, obviously however Galway could play that style of football if they wanted, they'd just to have to enlist different personnel.
Btw looks like Kildare are in for a hammering, as I predicted

[INDIANA]

and the reason is kildare don't score easily. Inferior teams playing defensive systems punch above thier weight until the last 8, then they get beaten regardless of system against better opposition because they struggle to score and results prove that. Wexford have scoring forwards and thats why they are in the last 4. Had galway nicky joyce and sean armstrong and a fully fit matthew clancy yesterday they could quite easily have won. Thats galways styleof football and they've won all-irelands with it.
If we are looking to promote the game we need more games like yesterday, thats the reality. and there was plenty of excellent defensive play yesterday. kerry simply have a range of scoring options no-one else have.

[pintsofguinness]

and the reason is kildare don't score easily. Inferior teams playing defensive systems punch above thier weight until the last 8, then they get beaten regardless of system against better opposition because they struggle to score and results prove that. Wexford have scoring forwards and thats why they are in the last 4.

That's so idiotic it's funny.

[Zulu]

I think the point that Indiana is making (and I agree) is that generally the best team of footballers will win the game regardless of the tactics deployed by the respective managers. Tyrone and Armagh didn't win their AI's because of tactics, they won because they had some of the best footballers in the country. It's rubbish to say Galway lost because of naivety, they lost because of 2 missed goal chances, the concession of a few soft frees and some brilliant point taking from Kerry. Cork lost the first half of the Munster final by playing defensively and hammered Kerry in the second by playing attacking route one 15 V 15 football so Kerry can be beaten in a shoot out. Every tactic/style of play has advantages and disadvantages, playing man V man attacking football means you'll probably concede more but you'll also score more. Playing defensive 13 men behind the ball football means you'll concede less but also score less. I know which way I'ds rather see football being played and hopefully the fact that Kerry, Wexford, Cork (looking likely) and Dublin (IMO) will encourage other counties to adopt a more attacking, kicking style of football.

[INDIANA]

thats exactly it Zulu . And if we can get more teasm to play that style , more people will go to see it. we can't promote gaelic football with matches like kildare  and fermanagh. Armagh and tyrone played terrific atatcking football to win their all-irelands not with the sort of rubbish armagh dished up yesterday.

[pintsofguinness]

I think the point that Indiana is making (and I agree) is that generally the best team of footballers will win the game regardless of the tactics deployed by the respective managers

If that's the case there would be no such thing as tactics.

Cork lost the first half of the Munster final by playing defensively and hammered Kerry in the second by playing attacking route one 15 V 15 football so Kerry can be beaten in a shoot out.

So the change in Cork's tactics at half time meant they went out and won the game.  If what you are saying above is true (that tactics don't matter) then cork's tactics would have been irrelevant.

[belleaqua]

Tbh Indiana Galway were naive in trying to go toe to toe with Kerry, they never stood a chance, they are short about 10 players imo - lovely game to watch but imo they didn't 'nearly pull it off' at all, apart from a lack of negativity in their play there was also a lack of hunger and belief, for the last 20 mins of the match Kerry won as much possession as they wanted and scored at will, now obviously it was better to watch than Cork v Kildare will be today, but I think Kildare may go closer to an All Ireland semi appearance (serious egg on face potential here).

Dont agree with that at all we showed great hunger, heart and desire yesterday Bogball, if you made these comments the last year fair enough but yesterday we were undone by Kerry's class and bad decision making at crucial times

[GalwayBayBoy]

Wouldn't be in agreement with that. Armagh simply don't have the personnel since 2002 when they could actually play football like that produced in the 2nd game yesterday. in 2002 armagh had the right balance between defence and attack. Now with an exceptionally limited outfit they have to play 12 men back , and unfortunately in recent years since 2005 semi it has invariably contributed to an awful spectacle when they are playing.
The reality is the 12 men defence is the realm of limited outfits trying to punch above their weight. At the end of the day the result is always the same, these teams all eventually lose. Thats why Galway didn't play the 12men defence that armagh would have done against Kerry. Because firstly it doesn't suit their style and secondlylike armagh they would have lost anyway because regardless of defensive systems the team with the best scoring forwards 99times out of 100 always wins. The only chance galway had was to go toe to toe,and it nearly paid off for them. I salute the likes of Galway for restoring my faith in football and to hell with the begrudgers. The reality is they wish their county could play ball like it.

Tbh Indiana Galway were naive in trying to go toe to toe with Kerry, they never stood a chance, they are short about 10 players imo - lovely game to watch but imo they didn't 'nearly pull it off' at all, apart from a lack of negativity in their play there was also a lack of hunger and belief, for the last 20 mins of the match Kerry won as much possession as they wanted and scored at will, now obviously it was better to watch than Cork v Kildare will be today, but I think Kildare may go closer to an All Ireland semi appearance (serious egg on face potential here).

I think the last few years have shown that Galway play their best football when they just go out and play and look to outscore the opposition which is how we've pretty much always played. Obviously you have to defend properly as well but when we tried to adopt a more defensive style under Peter Ford we were brutal to watch. We conceded less scores alright but at the cost of almost completely neutering our attacking instincts. Don't get me wrong I would have liked to have seen a few more big hits on Kerry players yesterday but that will come. Overall I prefer to see us play football rather than flood our own half of the field with 13 players and hope that we can come out on the right side of a dour low scoring struggle.

By the way I think it's a total nonsense to say we need 10 new players to challenge for an AI whether next year or the year after. We need to sort out the midfield a bit and maybe have a bit more luck injury wise than this year but I think we'll be there or thereabouts next year. Kerry are quite clearly ahead of everyone with Dublin probably behind them but I would fancy our chances against anyone else in the country. Kerry are a great side but they won't stay at the top indefinitely so it's up to other sides to position themselves for when the current side start to fade a bit which may be sooner rather than later.

[INDIANA]

galway need one midfielder  as well as bergin fit , and to get the other fwds fit they were missing yesterday. probably need one more corner back,but they are very much on the way up.10 players is complete rubbish.

[belleaqua]

You're praising Galway for going "toe to toe" wiht Kerry yesterday - do you think it's much consolation to Galway today that it was a good game for the neurtral?

Yes it was a consolation, I would not go to watch Galway live if they returned to the tactics used under Peter Forde. We should stick to what we know best. As I posted on the Galway match thread I could not believe the negativity and cynicism Armagh engaged in yesterday, constant messing off the ball. Id be disgusted if Galway ever had to resort to that to win football matches.

As for the statement that Armagh re-introduced the direct game in Gaelic football , it is rightly pointed out that Galway in 1998 did so. Not only that but did so by playing 6 forwards not two up front on their own.

[Zulu]

That's nonsense POG, of course tactics play a part for example Fermanghs 'tactics' might allow them beat a team like Derry but they wouldn't help them beat Kerry. IMO Dublin will beat Tyrone next week regardless of the tactics Tyrone deploy because Dublin are the better team, likewise Kerry would have beaten Galway even if Galway played everybody behind the ball except Micheal Meehan because Kerry are the better team. Anyway Galway deployed 'positive tactics' that could have won the game for them if they had taken their goal chances and I'd like to see more counties employ these tactics rather than WM or Fermanaghs tactics.

[Bogball XV]

Tbh Indiana Galway were naive in trying to go toe to toe with Kerry, they never stood a chance, they are short about 10 players imo - lovely game to watch but imo they didn't 'nearly pull it off' at all, apart from a lack of negativity in their play there was also a lack of hunger and belief, for the last 20 mins of the match Kerry won as much possession as they wanted and scored at will, now obviously it was better to watch than Cork v Kildare will be today, but I think Kildare may go closer to an All Ireland semi appearance (serious egg on face potential here).

Dont agree with that at all we showed great hunger, heart and desire yesterday Bogball, if you made these comments the last year fair enough but yesterday we were undone by Kerry's class and bad decision making at crucial times.


[/quote]
I thought that for about five/ten minutes after the goal you were on top, but that was the only time in the game, from memory Galway barely won a breaking ball outside of this period - I think the Meehan did brilliantly with the amount of possession he got, but i thought midfield, half forward and half back lines all need serious revamping - admittedly there are a few young lads in there who will come on, but overall there were too many passengers there yesterday.
I don't want to be too harsh as it was a very enjoyable game, but given the injuries to players like Armstrong and Joyce it was probably the wrong option to try and take Kerry on playing football - in saying that Kerry were extremely impressive yesterday and it probably wouldn't have mattered how you played them.

[pintsofguinness]

Yes it was a consolation, I would not go to watch Galway live if they returned to the tactics used under Peter Forde. We should stick to what we know best. As I posted on the Galway match thread I could not believe the negativity and cynicism Armagh engaged in yesterday, constant messing off the ball. Id be disgusted if Galway ever had to resort to that to win football matches.

Really? You're more concerned about how neutrals view you than winning?  That's the talk of losers.

Zulu

That's nonsense POG, of course tactics play a part for example Fermanghs 'tactics' might allow them beat a team like Derry but they wouldn't help them beat Kerry. IMO Dublin will beat Tyrone next week regardless of the tactics Tyrone deploy because Dublin are the better team, likewise Kerry would have beaten Galway even if Galway played everybody behind the ball except Micheal Meehan because Kerry are the better team. Anyway Galway deployed 'positive tactics' that could have won the game for them if they had taken their goal chances and I'd like to see more counties employ these tactics rather than WM or Fermanaghs tactics.

Right I agree with most of that but surely you wouldnt expect fermanagh, for example, to adapt a system of play and tactics to suit the players they have, use it to beat certain teams but when they come up against one of the bigger teams and where they're major underdogs to say "you know what f**k it, lets not play our game, lets play a system the neurtasl enjoy because we're going to lose anyway".  Doesnt make any sense. 

[belleaqua]

I thought that for about five/ten minutes after the goal you were on top, but that was the only time in the game, from memory Galway barely won a breaking ball outside of this period - I think the Meehan did brilliantly with the amount of possession he got, but i thought midfield, half forward and half back lines all need serious revamping - admittedly there are a few young lads in there who will come on, but overall there were too many passengers there yesterday.
I don't want to be too harsh as it was a very enjoyable game, but given the injuries to players like Armstrong and Joyce it was probably the wrong option to try and take Kerry on playing football - in saying that Kerry were extremely impressive yesterday and it probably wouldn't have mattered how you played them.

Ya true enough we didnt win enough breaks but Clancy was meant to be a big part of that but seemed curtailed with injury. Personally I felt they battled as best they could, I wouldnt fault them for heart or desire but have in the past. For that I blame the previous management who damaged Galway football in this period.

I think you make a valid point as regards Joyce and Armstrong. Now I wouldnt change our style because of that but when you see an injured Matt Clancy being reintroduced you know your bench is slack. Armstrong and Joyce would have given us the impetus to push on and win the game.

[Puckoon]

Kerry Galway was a lovely exhibition game. No intensity, tension or fire. Never were you on the edge of your seat which for me is a must as a GAA fan.

Everyone was raving about the score taking - no doubt it was an excellent exhibition, but it should be when there isnt a defender within touching distance of the player striking the ball.