Mayo Season Review 2008 - O'Mahony Confirmed for Another Year

[spectator]

But no –politics intervened and while I do not think that O'Mahony was all that interested in the manager's job political realities demanded he take the job on. Not a lot of principles involved.

Arra, I'm sick of it all. I do wish John the Messiah and John the Deppity would meet face to face and sort out which of them takes precedence.

Some interesting non-football analysis here : can anyone expand on ulterior motives the County Board may have had in appointing Johnno?

Who is \ are the power broker(s) in Mayo football capable of pulling off something like this? Did the club delegates speak up at the time?

Genuinely sorry to see Mayo losing, but it looks like ye just haven't the players at the moment. Mayo have always been a 'confidence' team, losing to Galway really seemed to have taken something out of ye for the qualifiers this year.

moysider, you mentioned dissatisfaction in the camp regarding selection before the CF - do you have an opinion on the players' views on Johnno staying or going?

[moysider]

a change in management is not the solution. JOM was given a 3 year contract and lets see out the 3 years. We are too fond of changing management. In 09 i would think heaney, nallen and aidan higgins will have retired. The rebuilding (although slowly) has unearthed some new players and hopefully will unearth somemore. IMO the problems we have now are more to do with the manner in which micky moran was shafted. He should have been given another year and then if that didn't work JOM could then have taken over - if he wanted the job.  References to politics and the sort is very unhelpful and alot of the jonno bashing is of this nature so i think it is important we stick to the football.

The CMD debate is over now the "what ifs" are irrelevent. I think we could have done with him this year and feel the issue was dealt with badly and a greater degree of transparacy on both sides would have closed this issue.

Mayo are lacking players in some key positions and a change in management at this stage will not solve this. The key to our sucess is continuity with development. We are used of defeats and i think one of our main problems is that we think we have agod given right to be participating in all ireland semi finals and finals. We lads we dont. I would rather have one or two years like what we have had and then comeback and be actually compeditive enough to win one. I am sick of winning connacht titles , qf and semis only to collapse in finals. I believe that if JOM gets us to another final that this will not happen.

For now though i would like to put out the positions i think we have nailed down players for and then leave blanks in where i feel we have found no one yet.(feel free to knock my thoughts but give a reason!- as this is only my opinion) You will notice i have no full back line as i can not honestly say i have seen anyone over the last 2 years that i have been entirely impressed with apart from keith higgins who i would rather as a half back.i have mcgarrity at ff so he can go out to the middle to help out if required leavig space for dillon to come in with the ball

                                                      Clarke
                                          ?             ?            ?

                                         D Kilcullen  T Howley    K Higgins

                                                      Parsons O'Shea

                                              BJP         Harte          Dillon

                                         C Mortimer     R McGarrity    T Mortimer

then players  bring from the bench a moran, kilcoyne, cambell.

a change in management is not the solution. JOM was given a 3 year contract and lets see out the 3 years. We are too fond of changing management.

True. Might as well stay. We d probably end up with a lot worse.

In 09 i would think Heaney, Nallen and Aidan Higgins will have retired. The rebuilding (although slowly) has unearthed some new players and hopefully will unearth somemore.

Yeah those three probably will be gone which leaves 3 more big gaps to fill as well as those still gaping open still.

Now I dont think Johnno has unearthed anybody. Buried one perhaps but who did he discover that was nt  going to be there anyway. So lets not give him credit for that. Parsons was coming through anyway regardless of who was manager. Cuniffe has nt improved and played out of position. Ditto Boyle. Kilcoyne under his third county manager and and no better. Campbell was one of our bankers from recent underage teams and now you have to worry about his progress as well. We thought for a while Conroy was an unannounced gem but... He did nt find one single player that was nt well sign posted. If you and me sat down tonight we would come up with 6 0r 8 names from age 16 - 21 that may well play football for Mayo for 8-10 years. managers are unearthing nobody. They are handed on players by clubs and colleges and they sometimes have to do very little as long as they dont f**k them up. Johnno got Joyce , meehans , Donnellans etc straight out of nurseries and as long as he did nt damage them they would do what they did. Previous managers got fellas like Mcgarrity, Nallen, Harte that were ignored at minor. Maughan plucked Horan from relative obscurity in 95/96. If Johnno had moulded a Horan or brought O Shea along so he could have started instead of Mcgarrity I would have sat up. Whats the point of having a specialist midfielder in the panel if he cant be used when needed? As regard  rebuilding is Pat kelly on a merry- go- round of selection? Nowhere v Galway. Ahead of Boyle Conroy and O Malley v Tyrone. Strange.


  References to politics and the sort is very unhelpful and alot of the jonno bashing is of this nature so i think it is important we stick to the football.

I see very little reference to politics. I m not into politics much myself  and I could nt care less if he was a member of the Monster Raving Looney  Party. Football is my only concern.


Mayo are lacking players in some key positions and a change in management at this stage will not solve this.

Debatable. Depends on who the manager is. As I ve said I m not looking for change because I dont thrust the county board to get a coach. They ll go for a personality or a safe pair of hands rather than somebody that can nurture young players and build a team. We need a proper coach eventually more than a ready made fullback or whatever. As it stands with the type of managers we usually get, Johnno, Holmes,  it would take 8 or 10 exceptional talents to emerge at the same time [as happened in Galway in 98] to give us any chance of winning AI.

We have a problem with coaching in that many of our established players[ mid 20s] look beyond change and seem only interested in doing their own thing, sulk if subbed etc. Remember the problems Moran had trying to get players to execute the simplist of forward ploys. Coaching is an alien concept in many parts of Mayo - not to be confused with training, running and gym.


I would rather have one or two years like what we have had and then comeback and be actually compeditive enough to win one. I am sick of winning connacht titles , qf and semis only to collapse in finals. I believe that if JOM gets us to another final that this will not happen.

If you are sick of winning Connacht titles fair enough. But in my time I ve only seen them win 11 + zero AI. They won 3  more between 51 and 81. Thats a total of 14. In that time Galway have won 28 Connachts+ 6 AI. In the same time Roscommon have won 12 Connachts - only 2 less than us.

We ve won 2 Connachts this century so far[ at this rate we will win 20 by 2099 in a province of 5 and we regard ourselves as in the big 2]
At this rate how can we expect to compete at AI level. It s not like galway have been brilliant since 2001. More like we ve been muck for all but 2 years at a time when our clubs were at their strongest and plenty quality coming through. Who to blame? We cant build teams if we dont at least win province and win  qfs minimum on a regular basis.

Next year the league will be another series of auditions and we ll probably tog 5 or 6 rookies as well as 1or 2 naer- do- wells against a settled Galway to get a lesson in Salthill in the Champ. 3 or 4  changes then and we ll get a chasing in the qualifiers again.

We think we have a great rivalry with Galway but in the last 50+ years its been kinda one-sided. 2-1.  I think it should be obvious that provincal success is a prerequisite to national success. Galway won and lost AI s with settled teams  who dominated in the province for a few years. Mayo have been unable to put more than  2[usually 1] Connachts  in a row and we go through greater change than Galway from year to year. In my time we ve only doubled up twice. Our best chance of winning one was probably 98. We were probably at our best that year but lost softish in Castlebar.

                                                      Clarke
                                          ?             ?            ?

                                         D Kilcullen  T Howley    K Higgins

                                                      Parsons O'Shea

                                              BJP         Harte          Dillon

                                         C Mortimer     R McGarrity    T Mortimer

then players  bring from the bench a moran, kilcoyne, cambell.
[/quote]

I have a problem with DK. If I was designing an intercounty player he would fit the bill as regards appearance but his discipline/ temperment and defensive instinct??? Now if Johnno had turned him into a Paul Galvin I would have sat up and applauded. But he did nt. He probably saw trouble and .... well, got rid of him. Safer option, but I would have liked to have seen Johnno put his stamp on these fellas. That was his job imo. My grandmother would have selected Parsons - for his curly head alone.  He took looks like the easy way out it seems.

Andy and Killer have been breastfed by 3 different management teams and have not progressed. And they wont at this stage. Take them off the tit and let them fend for themselves and they need rescuing. These are the ones we need to replace, not the Nallens. Time we started picking panels with players who actually can play at a level and leave the calendar out of it.

[moysider]

But no –politics intervened and while I do not think that O'Mahony was all that interested in the manager's job political realities demanded he take the job on. Not a lot of principles involved.

Arra, I'm sick of it all. I do wish John the Messiah and John the Deppity would meet face to face and sort out which of them takes precedence.

Some interesting non-football analysis here : can anyone expand on ulterior motives the County Board may have had in appointing Johnno?

Who is \ are the power broker(s) in Mayo football capable of pulling off something like this? Did the club delegates speak up at the time?

Genuinely sorry to see Mayo losing, but it looks like ye just haven't the players at the moment. Mayo have always been a 'confidence' team, losing to Galway really seemed to have taken something out of ye for the qualifiers this year.

moysider, you mentioned dissatisfaction in the camp regarding selection before the CF - do you have an opinion on the players' views on Johnno staying or going?

No. Have nt talked to any of the players since. Johnno is old school. Some players would respect that. Others not.

Yeah. Players knew Johnno was gone off track but in fairness most acquitted themselves well against Tyrone, and many of our lads played very well and did nt deserve to lose. But in the circumstances most did well. If I was Johnno what would annoy me most is not the critics but players he thought he d empowered pullin the equivalent of a sickie at that level. Mind You the hair gel was beyond reproach on at least one individual  and hey! its important to be lookin good when you calf on RTE.  And they ll play for him again next year but it wont be on a winning team. Collectively they can not be in a good place right now. 13 months on and there was f**k all difference between Celtic and Croke Park. Forget about the respective scorelines. Last year we still had Brady, Nallen, Hanley, Mac, O Neill. A year later maybe all those gone and some of the younger lads patently not up yo it.

  From my experience players are honest and will play for anybody. but they play better for some than others. Not a deliberate thing from players but good managers get better performances than others.

As in all teams some players will like the manager, some less so. Players play and managers manage. A footballer is a very selfish man and at any level the individual comes first. This stuff about there being no i in team is a shit cliche to be honest. There s a pecking order in every team. There are 15 i s in successful teams and maybe in all teams. How they perform as a team is partly due to management. It s up to management to create a team spirit and a sense of common purpose. Look at the way Johnno has gone about things. Changes in the middle of Summer. Players are nt fools. They know the best player most of them have ever seen in the county is nt around to help.

Remembering making this point about Saipan. A young Damien Duff before WC match, in the tunnel, who does he want leading out the team? Keane or Stan?

They also know who the best players are - and maybe the best team too. Would Johnno s efforts to build a team last 2 years convince the players he knew what he was at?  I would speculate that most of them were relieved they were picked in the chaos. Those that we re not were probably left alienated and confused.

I d love to know how S O Shea felt about being not trusted with a role last Saturday. 21 years of age. Is he good enough or not? I remember Maughan at least stickin in Heaney in 97 and him only a kid. And he did better than ok. Maughan got as much right as he did wrong i think.

[highking]

A lot of you are missing the point here. The county board are developing McHale Park this year and that is where all the extra funds will be going over the next year. Thats the priority from now. The CB were under pressure to appoint JOM two years ago and they did that. It hasnt worked out, so now the CB have to rethink on wheather they are getting value for money? If O'Mahoney has had enough of it and wants out - then the CB wont try to change his mind... If that happens then look out for a low budget/low profile apointment late on this season. Someone like Tommy Jordan or the Connolly/Holmes combination (Next in line is Dempsey - but god firbid if that happens).. Finally, best of luck to the Minors playing Monaghan in Longford next Saturday. Would be nice if they could get us back to Croker for September...

[stephenite]

Sureley you're not suggesting that managers are getting paid money to manage Mayo Senior teams? 

[mayo51]

good post moysider which i think hits the nail on the head.for some reason i have always felt o mahony never gives off an air of confidence and is always looking to downplay our chances of winning which ithink spreads to the team and  thus they do not have the conviction or confidence to win close games. i have no doubt that all the players gave   it there all on saturday but the ironclad confidence that they are going to win the game is not there.i was always very impressed with john maughan,when on his appointment in 1995 he said his aim was to win the all-ireland in his first year.most people thought he was nuts as we were terrible at the time but he truely believed it and that conviction spread to the players and they played with a confidence and a belief that had never been seen in a mayo team before. i hear alot of supporters saying that they are happy that we lost on saturday as they feared we would get  a drubbing in our next game but  i could not disagree more. win every game and see where it takes you and if we do get a hammering so be it.                                                                                          in my opinion we do have the players to challenge for honours every year but we are simply not getting the best out of them.i do not think o mahoney will succed in this and is looking for a way out of this mess and for him to say that it is not up to him  if  he stays or goes is totall bullshit-and if i ever hear of a 3 year plan to win the all-ireland again i will shoot someone-

[RedandGreenSniper]

I think we're witnessing a lot of the typical Mayo attitude on here. Things go wrong and suddenly everything someone else did was great.

We're seeing a lot of people say about how well Maughan did, in hindsight. Yet when he was in charge every second person in the county had something bad to say about him. I'm not saying the same people were knocking him are now praising him but its frightening when you look at the difference in opinion.

And then there's Mickey Moran. The perfect 'victim'. Nice man. Great coach, something we rarely have in this county. Brought Mayo back to an All-Ireland final after the embarrassment of 2004. Did so by beating Dublin in what the 'great' Micheal O Muireachtaigh described as the best game he ever saw. Conveniently 'shafted' by the county board for alterior political motives so that JOM can come in and ride to general election success. Appointed for a three year term. Everyone expects the ultimate return in those three years.

But after two years things aren't going to that plan. Suddenly Mayo were foolish to get rid of Moran. O'Mahony is not the Messiah we thought he was. He can't bring through Under 21 winners from 2006. He left the best forward in the county off the panel. Its all stacking against him.

But I think people are looking at things in a misguided way to suit their own argument.

Lets be real about a couple of things.

   -------  Mayo against Dublin in 2006 may have been one of the most entertaining games ever played but that doesn't mean either side involved were anything close to great teams. It was a 'great' game because both teams were very naive in their approach to the game and particularly to defence. Dublin especially didn't know what to do with a seven point lead. I know people might say that that was there problem but we've used it as an excuse countless times after 1996. Bottom line we won an entertaining match but Jack O'Connor left that game knowing that Kerry had the All-Ireland in the bag.

   ------  Mickey Moran and John Morrison did well in 2006. They brought Kevin O'Neill back, got Dillon playing well. But they ignored David Brady, didn't care too much about Trevor Mortimer. They took a lot of credit for the Dublin win. But remember it was the players who decided to warm up in front of the hill. The players (Heaney and Brady) who refused Moran's calls to return to the Canal End.

  ------- I'm amazed at how people forget about the final. In the same way that Moran and Morrison decided to forget about the 2004 final in the run up to September 2006. That was a disaster in terms of management. I firmly believe Kerry were the best team in the country that year but Mayo could have been so much more competitive if the management weren't so naive. The way they prepared Mayo we were on a hiding to nothing. Mayo's full-back line gets cleaned out in 2004. Kerry turn up in 06 with a bigger full-forward and M & M try and play the same way!

  -------  Most importantly of all Mickey Moran and John Morrison fell out after the final. This seems to be conveniently forgotten. They were a team, one needed the other to be alongside him for them to work well. Mickey Moran met the county board without Morrison. That was the end of that. If they hadn't fallen out and then they were 'sacked' then we could look at things differently, question the county board's agenda. But the fact is simple - there would be no M & M for 2007 regardless.

  ------  We won an Under 21 All-Ireland in 2006 but anyone who had watched those players closely will be aware that it wasn't individual talent that won the day. It was an incredible collective effort engendered by a motivated management, Noel Connelly especially. It is no conincidence that the only Under 21 player to start the All-Ireland senior final later that year was Keith Higgins. Trevor Howley has come on since. Tom Cunniffe too. Chris Barrett will. Seamus O'Shea will. Ger Cafferkey possibly. Kenneth O'Malley if it wasn't for a bad injury. But serious question marks hang over Barry Moran, Aidan Campbell and the man of the match in that final - Aidan Kilcoyne. Michael Conroy looks like he has flown the nest. Mark Ronaldson is an outstanding footballer but just may suffer at the highest level because of his size. So I don't think people can be too hard on JOM for not bringing through enough of that minor team. They overachieved that year.

  ------  Ciaran McDonald. Both men erred. But the responsibility is with the manager to handle these types of situations. If we are to be hard on him for anything, I think this is the one issue he failed badly on.

I think we have to be realistic about all these things as we judge how JOM has done. I thought he would have done better myself. There has be no out of the ordinary approaches, nothing that would make you say 'God fair play Johnno, that one worked well'. But it has been far from catestrophic either. I think we have to be realistic in our appraisals of all the surrounding circumstances when we are looking to the future. There have been mistakes made but lets not lose the run of ourselves about Mickey Moran or the Under 21 team from 06.

[An Gaeilgoir]

After reading the points here,i think Mayo have quite an experienced squad when it comes to Playing Croke park. To look at them playing out there on Sat. one would think that they had only met up an hour before the game, messing with the ball in the back line leading to numerous scores for Tyrone, kicking line balls straight out over the sideline. Wrong options been taken in front of the posts and dont get me started on picking the ball up off the ground. The team and managment didn't have the air of confidence or drive to win that game, there seemed to be a lethargic air about the whole set-up. Look at Monaghan/Kerry as a contrast, all the players put their bodies in where it hurt to win the hard ball and most of the time the players took the right options coming out of defence and in front of goals, Why cant Mayo do this consisently at this level. Is it the coaching for a young age to blame for this or is the short passing to be dispensed wit and a team put together where we play more directly and win more games "ugly". JOM has a year left, why not give it to him ? Has the team progressed from last year...... The jury is still out in my opinion. Sam is as far away at the moment as it ever has been in the past 20 years.

[small white mayoman]

Monday August 04 2008

MICKEY Harte smiled like a man who had just struck a private deal with the gods while John O'Mahony wore the bewildered look of somebody who just couldn't figure out why the world was such a stinking place.

Twice in the space of four weeks Mayo had been edged out of major championship games by a point and now O'Mahony doesn't know if his masters on the county board want any more of him.

It wasn't meant to be like this. Having visited so much joy on Galway and Leitrim, O'Mahony was brought back to his native Mayo to close out the All-Ireland deal after final failures in 2004 and 2006. Two seasons on, Mayo's only championship wins were against Cavan and Sligo while they lost to Galway (twice), Derry and Tyrone.

O'Mahony still has a year to run and is keen to see it through but if the board want him out (which they won't if they have a thimble-full of sense) he'll leave quietly and quickly.

Progress

"I have never stayed in any job where I wasn't wanted. I'm willing to live by my commitments but obviously I'll sit down with the county board and see what they want," he said.

He also suggested that it was a time for Mayo to hold their nerve. His squad are a work in progress and panic trading won't achieve anything.

"I've no problem walking out the door if somebody else can come in and win an All-Ireland for Mayo next year. I've a fair idea that I know what needs to be done so it's important to hold the nerve."

Indeed it is. And if Mayo doubt that, all they have to do is study how Tyrone retained their composure when faced with a three-point deficit (1-7 to 0-7) 15 minutes into the second half of Saturday's third-round qualifier.

The margin should have been greater as Conor Mortimer hoofed high over the bar from a clear goal opportunity in the 47th minute. Still, Mayo were in full flow while Tyrone looked edgy and, at times, even clumsy.

Then all changed. Sean Cavanagh and Enda McGinley increased the supply rate from midfield and, in the space of 10 minutes, Tyrone scored six unanswered points to pull three clear.

Mayo responded and cut two back but their season ended in bright Croke Park sunshine with Trevor Mortimer and Aidan Higgins both feeling aggrieved that they hadn't been awarded a free on the Tyrone 45-metre line after being surrounded by defenders right at the end.

Referee Cormac Reilly ignored their call, deciding instead that Tyrone's swarm approach was perfectly legal. Unquestionably, some referees would have seen it differently and presented Mayo with one last shot at salvation.

But then Mayo had been at the wrong end of another crucial call a few minutes earlier when Ryan McMenamin fouled Conor Mortimer as he sped down on goal. There was a clear overlap and a great goal opportunity but the referee whistled play back and awarded Mayo a free which they pointed.

It was a clear example of crime paying and another perfect illustration of the nonsense of a rule that punishes the fouled party rather than the transgressor.

On such tiny margins are seasons decided. Mayo will feel hard done by but then if you allow others to decide your fate you can expect disappointment. The uncomfortable reality for Mayo was that they scored just 1-3 from play and only three players got on the scoresheet as opposed to eight for Tyrone.

Conor Mortimer and Billy Joe Padden were the only two of Mayo's starting six forwards to make a real impression although there were extenuating circumstances for Pat Harte who had a tummy bug on Friday and who lasted only to half-time. Trevor Mortimer added some clout to the attack in the second half while Tom Parson had some good spells at midfield.

Harte's rejigging of his Tyrone forces, including bringing Cavanagh to midfield, worked well and while it took the attack a long time to establish momentum they finally did enough to pick off a series of match-winning points.

Harte praised his side's energy and also noted that they didn't panic when they fell three points adrift in the second half. It was a position they never expected to find themselves when they raced into a three-point lead after 15 minutes before Mayo's rapid improvement, decorated with a smartly created goal which Conor Mortimer finished, gave them a one-point lead at the interval.

Mayo dominated the first 15 minutes of the second half, during which Tyrone failed to score but they still only found themselves three points behind, which was well within the recovery range once they launched their mission.

They squeezed through to their sixth quarter-final in eight seasons, much to the relief of their manager, who acknowledged that the jigsaw pieces needed to fit tighter together to complete the picture.

"We're not converting enough of our chances. We need to nail more of them and then go on to play with more fluency," he said.

Tyrone missed some excellent opportunities on Saturday with Tommy McGuigan, who kicked four wides, the main culprit. Is Harte worried that so many games in a short space of time might dull the team's edge for their clash against Dublin?

"That's what you buy into when you're in the qualifiers. The alternative is to be watching the action from the sidelines," he said.

SCORERS -- Tyrone: S Cavanagh 0-4 (1f), T McGuigan (2f), C McCullagh (1f) 0-2 each, D Harte, E McGinley, R McMenamin, B Dooher, M Penrose 0-1 each. Mayo: C Mortimer 1-4 (0-3f), A Dillon 0-3 (3f), BJ Padden 0-2.

TYRONE -- J Devine 6; C Gourley 7, Justin McMahon 7, C Gormley 7; D Harte 7, R McMenamin 7, P Jordan 7; R Mellon 6, E McGinley 8; B Dooher 6, B McGuigan 5, Joseph McMahon 6; C McCullagh 7, S Cavanagh 8, T McGuigan 6. Subs: M Penrose 7 for Mellon (47), C Holmes 7 for B McGuigan (47), D Carlin 7 for Harte (54), O Mulligan for T McGuigan (68), D McCaul for McMenamin (74).

MAYO -- D Clarke 7; K Higgins 7, T Cunniffe 7, A Higgins 7; T Howley 7, J Nallen 7, P Gardiner 7; D Heaney 6, T Parsons 7; A Moran 5, P Harte 6, BJ Padden 7; C Mortimer 7, A Dillon 6, A Kilcoyne 5. Subs: T Mortimer 7 for Harte (ht), A Campbell 6 for Kilcoyne (55), P Kelly for Howley (62), R McGarrity for Moran (63).



Is o' mahony for real there he is for the past 2 years telling all the mayo fans that our expectations have to be realastic and in 1 sentence he goes and says that he will walk away if there is somone better out there that can win the Ai
For f**k sake less of the Bullshit John  this coming from a man that has won 2 of his six championship games mayo supporters don't expect to win the Ai but we do expect progress and from what i can see its backward steps that we are taking. So if you do stay on for the year stop taking us like fools and concentrate fully on the job in hand.

[Lar Naparka]

Is it the coaching for a young age to blame for this or is the short passing to be dispensed wit and a team put together where we play more directly and win more games "ugly". JOM has a year left, why not give it to him ? Has the team progressed from last year...... The jury is still out in my opinion. Sam is as far away at the moment as it ever has been in the past 20 years.

No; I don’t think it can all be put down to faulty coaching at underage levels.
I’d be inclined to put it down to the mindset of the players out on the field.
An unwillingness to accept responsibility due to a fear of the consequences could very well be the reason.
I think if I were a player lacking in self-belief and confidence my first thought when I’d get possession would be to get rid of the ball as if it were a hot potato.
With Mayo the same sort of panic is evident when it comes to attempts at knocking points over.
Certainly, some players are better than others when it comes to kicking for scores from between the 30 and 40m marks but even here the returns are not up to intercounty standard. We tend to get our scores after a long chain of hand passes; passes as often as not that eventually will be intercepted and cleared.
I don’t imagine that flaws in under age coaching techniques are solely to blame for the lack of purpose and direction that seems to afflict our players when they compete at senior intercounty level.
All the coaching in the world will count for nothing if backs don’t mark up tight. The same goes for opposition forwards being left unmarked around the square.
Up front we returned a score of 1-9 the last day. On the open spaces of Croker that is nowhere nearly enough to entertain serious hopes progressing any further.
(It’s no consolation to say that Tyrone’s 0-13 is unlikely to see them over the next hurdle.)
The inability of our forwards to score well and consistently was problem before O’Mahony took over.  However, he has done little or nothing to improve the situation.
I’d certainly say that a lack of coaching up through the ranks is partly to blame and so is the obvious lack of natural talent. One cannot fault the manager here.
But a lack of a game plan and of positive guidance from the sideline are matters he should have remedied.
There was a time when a player anywhere on the field would try and pick out the lad with the dreadlocks and the white boots and hoof it at him. What Ciaran did next could be unpredictable and maybe not always effective but he could be depended on to get possession and make space to decide on his next move.
I thought Andy Moran and Conor Mortimer in particular benefited form his ability to pass accurately.
For two games running, Conor got high balls lobbed in on top of him with bigger and heavier opponents standing behind him. Where were the daisycutters he could have thrived on?
Wouldn’t a few roars from the sideline help smarten up those who persisted in crucifying him? I don’t see a dearth of underage coaching as the problem.
Honestly, I am not being vindictive in hindsight here. I am totally at a loss as to why basic faults were not spotted and eradicated.

The man asked for and was given a three year term and I feel the county board is honour bound to leave any interim decision to him alone.
But does he even bother to study the video replays he is said to be so fond of?

[An Gaeilgoir]

You are did right in what you say there LNP. You mentioned the high ball been sent in on top of Mort. and Moran, when Tom Parsons was moved in to the edge of the square with i think 10 mins. to go, only one high ball was sent in in his direction, the result? holding by the Tyrone back and a free in front of the sticks, that was the last high ball that went in. Even when we got two frees in a row in injury time, both frees were only kicked ten yards to a mayoman who was surrounded by Tyrone players. If senior intercounty players can weigh up the correct option when they have a free, well they have no chance in open football. One final point, Mayo players dont look as physically strong or built as most other intercounty teams that played over the weekend with maybe the exceprion of Fermanagh. We need to get some strenght and physicallity into our game for next year.

[rosnarun]

on mature recollection
i think people are seriously over reacting to what was actully a very ordinary loss  of a match by one point wirh 3 or 4 very good shouts for a free that the ref chickened out of in the last 5 minutes to a team who will probably trouble whoever they meet from here out.
Call ing for mass culls of players now is stupid in the extreme we may well have 3 or 4 undiscovered/discarded or maturing gems out there but thats about it . Talent itself is not the problem. All mayo lacked last week was a coherent game plan(guess whose fault that was) and a little composure in front of goal.
there nothing simpler than to write players off but as the management found out it one thing making an example of your best player but another thing to replace him.
what really shows the weakness of the mayo management is the way some players are considered an integral part one week yet are dropped without trace the following. im talking about the likes of Ciaran conroy and Austin here . while im normally not one of austie biggest fans but he must have felt sorely let down not to have been given a run when scores were so hard to come by. that kind of shunning canty help team morale.

[kevmy]

So we've all had a few days to reflect and think about the loss and Saturday and look at the season and Johnno's reign so far as a whole. Here are some of my thoughts on the present state of Mayo football.

- There is a rebuilding job on without doubt and people do need to recognise this and adjust there expectations accordingly. Every county (bar Kerry maybe) goes through these periods where older players leave and younger ones must be brought in and take responsibility. These are always difficult and contentious periods. A lot of posters said Johhno inherited a good team and has needlessly taken it apart. Wrong. He inherited a good ageing team. In 06 DB, Heaney, Nallen, Mac, O'Neill, Aiden Higgins were all key members of the squad who were leaders. All of these were around the 30 at the time. Basically they had to go sooner or later as they had reached the peak some could be useful in the mean time but all are in the winter of their careers.

- People say we have the talent of 2 recent AI club winning sides but if we really look at those teams all the best guys are playing already or have retired. There are few hidden gems in Cross or Ballina. If we look at the club championship we can see the power bases shifting a bit with other clubs catching up. This only further reiterates the uncertainty in Mayo football and the need to continue rebuilding.

- As the old lads go through retirement or more controversial measures young lads have to take there place. Not just 20 - 23 year olds but also the 25 - 30 year old established players have to step up to be leaders. This means the Dillons, Gardiners, Mortimers and McGarritys. To my eyes neither of these tasks has been fully completed. If we remember the 96/97 team we all know the above guys were on them but alot were naive young lads at the time it wasn't until Holmes, McHale, Flannagan, McMannamon and co. left the stage that the other guys took on responsibility.

- So in the next year I would be looking to McGarrity, T Mort, Harte and Dillon to really step up to the plate in terms of leadership in the changing room whatever about on field performances. We also need to remember that U21 teams don't directly jump to senior squad. We have got some of these guys through Howley, Higgins, Parsons, Cunniffe have all established themselves as first teamers with Kilcoyne, Campbell and Ronaldson as squad players. This needs to continue and nearly all of the panel bar those who retire should be brought back again next year.

- There is no doubt this group of players isn't fulfilling it's potential - fair enough they ain't good enough to win an AI but a Connacht was gettable this year. Some of that can be attributed to management and some to players not stepping up to the mark in terms of leadership and cool heads. Unfortunately defeat now may be the only way for some guys to learn how to move on.

- Getting rid of Johnno now won't do us a hell of a lot of good. The next lads in would only have to continue rebuilding to progress. Anyone who remembers the Derry game and compares it to the Tyrone game will see some progress albeit slow. I came out of the Derry game with 2 reasons for hope Pearse Hanley at 11 and Barry Moran at 14. Now Pearse went and set us back a bit and Barry got injured which deprived us of an extra option. This year I saw a little more, defence had less of a thrown together look and midfield looks very promising. Hopefully next year will bring some more of this together.

- This year of course was about achievement as well as rebuilding and we didn't achieve enough. When we look at where the problems were most of the year and where they were on Sat it's very strange. All year we where putting up big scores and conceding them as well. By Saturday this had switched. We kept a decent score in backs but our forwards failed us. Why? I would go with player problems rather than management. Johnno managed to get the backs relatively sorted by going back to the past to get the job done for the day (but stuck with Cunniffe who I reckon has a big future). But the forwards failed. They failed to move, they failed to make the right choices, they failed to keep their head and they failed to live up to their potential. Apart from Conor and Dillon they were poor. There is no easy solution.

-  On O'Mahonys future if he isn't 100% interested he should go, otherwise he should stay. No one was going to win AI's for us and Johnno is as good as anyone to rebuild the team.

- On players future we can only hope for improvements in leadership from the established players and good performances from the younger ones. It's difficult to say at the moment but I would like the following to be involved in first team affairs next year

Clarke - pure solid

Higgins, Howley, Cunniffe, Gardiner, Barrett - most of them young but all showing good enough football, Gardiner must except responsibility along with Higgins and Howley, Cunniffe played ok in FB a more settled partnership is essential.

Parsons and McGarrity  - Parsons to continue good form and McGarrity to bulk up a little and get a clear run with injuries

Dillon, Trevor, Harte, Conor, Barry Moran  - A half forward line of the first 3 would be powerful and experienced as long as injuries don't kill Trevor. Conor has limitations but must continue he might thrive with Moran in FF.

Bench/Squad  -  A Higgins, Pat Kelly (would both add some experience) O'Malley, Conroy and Boyle (if their form improves they could be involved) McLoughlin and Cafferkey (the obvious 2 to see if they work out), O'Shea (if he improves he nay turn into a good backup), BJP (for some experience if struggling around the middle but not as a playmaker), Campbell, Kilcoyne and Ronaldson (hopeful one of these will come from the pack to really push on as a good scoring forward), Durkan and Regan (two lads who were previously involved but didn't seem to make the cut both going well for their respective clubs and worthy of a look).  
One joker in the pack could be David Geragthy - not very subtle but causes diffculty in FF against pretty much every club in Mayo, not sure if he's up to the standard but could be looked at for his bull-in-the-chinashop approach we sometimes lack.

 

[Rossfan]

. I came out of the Derry game with 2 reasons for hope Pearse Hanley at 11 and Barry Moran at 14. Now Pearse went and set us back a bit
 

Aye indeed - the Rosness broke out in him.

[OirthearMhaigheo]

I'm starting to finally get over the massive disappointment that was saturday. The post mortem in the western helped in terms of therapy, hopefully the Mayo news today will see me right and the recovery process will be near complete. The main disappointment I felt about the game against Tyrone was our decision making and our coolness under pressure. No matter how long I am watching Mayo football this never seems to improve. When the heat is on and good calls have to be made, time and time again our lads seem to choose the wrong option. They try to walk it out when it should be kicked, they shoot when there's a free man, they don't shoot and pass to a man who is marked or in a worse position. They don't do this throughout games, but when the pressure is at its greatest they serve up some act that has to tearing your hair out and turning sane people into full scale nut jobs for 70 minutes.
This implosion under pressure must be a coaching thing, I agree fully with James Horans opinion that lads will always go back to their comfort zone (bad habits) when hard questions are asked and that is what our lads do.
Like any team sport, Saturdays defeat wasn't all down to the players, Management don't come out of it in a great light either. I never agreed with the Mac issue and I know going back to it now won't achieve anything but.......... when he wasn't chosen for the panel there needed to be a suitable replacement and that wasn't the case. He could have been the difference in our 2 one-point defeats this year, although he wouldn't have turned us into an All-Ireland winning side. Like alot of posters I feel that's where Johnno got it wrong this year, the tactics the last day were pretty good by and large. we kept Tyrone to 13 points, on the flip side, with BJP and Andy helping out the backs we were short on numbers in the forwards and as a result we only scored 1-9 ourselves, you won't win much doing that!
There is hope though. we have more talent at our disposal than most counties, will we use it correctly is the issue and do we have quite enough to win an All-Ireland I don't know. The likes of Ger Cafferky has to be given a chance, he is to my mind the only real deal full-back in the county and should have been included this year but for some reason wasn't, Parsons will improve as will T Howley and with talent like Aidan O'Shea on the horizon it can't all be bad. Getting all these lads to do the right things when the game is in the melting pot is another days/decades work altogther!