Another cracker from Barry 'Radar' McElduff

[nifan]

Q.do all people in the world look at Ireland as the one country ?
A. yes

Says who?

Q. Is Ireland geographically the one country ?
A. yes

What on earth does "geographically one country" mean?

Q. was the uj flag created to represent the island of Ireland?
A. no

It represented Great Britain and Ireland - the saltire of st patrick being a component piece which represented all of ireland at the time.


As for NIs status, I am aware of what its status is thanks, but your points as to whether Ireland is a country dont seem to be based in much fact.

[Evil Genius]

Q.do all people in the world look at Ireland as the one country ?
A. yes

Says who?

Q. Is Ireland geographically the one country ?
A. yes

What on earth does "geographically one country" mean?

Q. was the uj flag created to represent the island of Ireland?
A. no

It represented Great Britain and Ireland - the saltire of st patrick being a component piece which represented all of ireland at the time.


As for NIs status, I am aware of what its status is thanks, but your points as to whether Ireland is a country dont seem to be based in much fact.

You're wasting your time with Lynchboy, Nifan, since he's obviously a keen student of the Barry "Stick your fingers in your ears and go 'La La La' until the big man stops saying nasty things" McElduff School of Political Analysis...

[lynchbhoy]

and there we see it, irony at its best from eg

plus all the wee lads running to fight each others battles ...


what are you all afraid of
and why wont you just listen to the rest of the world or just look at a plain old MAP of the world !

sheesh
see what 800+ years of being the 'rulers' does peoples 'brains' and perspective


ni, a country...

[nifan]

plus all the wee lads running to fight each others battles ...


what are you all afraid of
and why wont you just listen to the rest of the world or just look at a plain old MAP of the world !

sheesh
see what 800+ years of being the 'rulers' does peoples 'brains' and perspective


ni, a country...

I dont need to fight anyones battles but I am entitled to post when i feel like it - your attempts to belittle us because we have some sort of agreement sometimes:D

as for a map of the world and how others see us - first image that comes up in google for me for map of the world
http://www.world-map.nl/maps/political-world-map-2007.gifFrom a dutch site too - so it seems like the whole world doesnt see us as you do.

800+ years - im only 29


You still havent explained what a geographical country is - is it as its a bollocks term?

PS I didnt claim NI is a country.

[lynchbhoy]

I dont need to fight anyones battles but I am entitled to post when i feel like it - your attempts to belittle us because we have some sort of agreement sometimes:D
as for a map of the world and how others see us - first image that comes up in google for me for map of the world
http://www.world-map.nl/maps/political-world-map-2007.gifFrom a dutch site too - so it seems like the whole world doesnt see us as you do.
800+ years - im only 29
You still havent explained what a geographical country is - is it as its a bollocks term?
PS I didnt claim NI is a country.

so why did you  'jump in' to help your little pals and their rows
typical of you lot...yer always at it !

still it shows where you lots heads are when you are clinging on to the notion that ni is a country

geographically - as in land formations around the globe
has there been some kind of earthquake in the past days that has caused the top part of Ireland to become physically detached ?

or is it that the Island of Ireland is still physically attached and one entity?

if you cannt bring yourselves to admit this, then you have bigger sectarian/bigorty problems within - ones that I have always pointed out existed !


ni ....a country 

[nifan]

so why did you  'jump in' to help your little pals and their rows
typical of you lot...yer always at it !

I happen to disagree with your comments, i am entitled to argue.
When you "jump in" to attack me at random times is it you defending your pals?

still it shows where you lots heads are when you are clinging on to the notion that ni is a country

I havent claimed it is, as i pointed out in mylast post. Still it shows where your heads at with such comments.

geographically - as in land formations around the globe
has there been some kind of earthquake in the past days that has caused the top part of Ireland to become physically detached ?

Your most ridiculous comment yet?
One land mass does not equal on country, do you really believe it does?
I think youve a lot of people to convince of that one

if you cannt bring yourselves to admit this, then you have bigger sectarian/bigorty problems within - ones that I have always pointed out existed !

You still think I am sectarian/bigoted  you are more deluded than I thought possible!
In your head is it possible for a prod not to be bigoted - cos you havent got a clue about me by the sounds of it.

[lynchbhoy]

so why did you  'jump in' to help your little pals and their rows
typical of you lot...yer always at it !

I happen to disagree with your comments, i am entitled to argue.
When you "jump in" to attack me at random times is it you defending your pals?

still it shows where you lots heads are when you are clinging on to the notion that ni is a country

I havent claimed it is, as i pointed out in mylast post. Still it shows where your heads at with such comments.

geographically - as in land formations around the globe
has there been some kind of earthquake in the past days that has caused the top part of Ireland to become physically detached ?

Your most ridiculous comment yet?
One land mass does not equal on country, do you really believe it does?
I think youve a lot of people to convince of that one

if you cannt bring yourselves to admit this, then you have bigger sectarian/bigorty problems within - ones that I have always pointed out existed !

You still think I am sectarian/bigoted  you are more deluded than I thought possible!
In your head is it possible for a prod not to be bigoted - cos you havent got a clue about me by the sounds of it.

wrong again gregory !


ni is a country  ! !!

[nifan]

wrong again gregory !


ni is a country  ! !!

Wrong about what?

And are you trying to prove you know my real first name?

[Main Street]

NI is not a country. It is a partition of an Irish province which is still politically connected to the UK.
It has more status than the Isle of Man.

Since the GFA, there may be some sort of a vision for Northern Ireland, a land of two communities working together in harmony but connected to the UK. A sort of a transition over from being primarily British to be Northern Irish first and British or Irish second. A new beginning type of thing.

There may even be some sort of a dream that the Northern Ireland football team can be a focus to unite communities.
Frankly that idea is still full of pus  

There may also be some idea that the Assembly can function as a legislative parliament, a chamber where differences can be discussed and resolved. Frankly, on the surface the assembly veto paralyses that one, it has all the signs of impotency of the UN. AFAIK there is very little faith in the Assembly.

On the other hand, the ingredients that make up a united country are still strong and getting stronger despite 85 years of partition.
Essentially, that is the way the ball is rolling.

I have no emotional investment in unity, I  am quite apathetic on that one. There would be no flag waving from me.

[orangeman]

I see ex mayor of Dungannon Barry Monteith has jumped of the Sinn Fein ship, disillusioned with the party's new found politics and not convinced that their strategy can bring about the united Ireland that Sinn Fein and the IRA felt so strongly about for such a long time, but which seems to have fallen from their radar !

[nifan]

wrong again gregory !


ni is a country  ! !!

Wrong about what?

And are you trying to prove you know my real first name?

Well Lynchboy any answer?
What was your point here if you had one?

[MW]

Q. does ni have a place at the UN (and others, un is just one example) table ?
A. no

And neither does the island of Ireland. So can we agree then that in international terms, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the Republic of Ireland, are countries?

Q.do all people in the world look at Ireland as the one country ?
A. yes

Oh dear God, he actually thinks he speaks for the entire population on planet Earth now

Q. Is Ireland geographically the one country ?
A. yes

"Geographically", it's an island. Not a country.

Q. was the uj flag created to represent the island of Ireland?
A. no

Yes, actually. The island of Ireland and the island of Great Britain together.

Q. Was the tricolour flag created to represent the entire Ireland for both catholics and protestants (and Amhrain na bhfiann also)
A. YES

And both have only ever had official status as the flag and anthem of the Irish Free State/Republic of Ireland/whatever else you want to call the 26 county state.

so hard luck girls !
ni is not a country for these and more political, economic and judicial reasons - which I thought were more obvious !

Remind me of your definition of a country again...?

[MW]

In Shinner language this principle was, before 1998, referred to as "the unionist veto" - unionists constitute a majority in NI. Of course since then only dissident republicans "remember" this.

I'm not familiar with this "Shinner language" you are talking about but I assume it's the same as that which in common usage among the nationalist population. If so then you are wrong.

"Unionist veto" was the term used by SF to refer to the consent principle up to 1998.

Did a little google search there to back this up. From Malachi O'Doherty's 'The Trouble with Guns' (1997)

"The consent principle, which had been coined within the Joint Declaration of the British and Irish governments in December 1993, guaranteed the constitution of Northern Ireland against change that was not approved by the greater number of the people there. Republicans called this 'the Unionist veto'."

From the Guardian last year:

"Both the Good Friday Agreement of 1998 and latterly the St Andrews accord are grounded in the consent principle. That is, that there can be no change to Northern Ireland's constitutional status without the say of the majority, i.e. the unionists. Republicans used to call this the 'unionist veto', denouncing it as an undemocratic maintenance of partition by a 'national minority' on the island. Now, the very people who once were so vocal in opposing the principle of consent, Sinn Fein, embrace it."

Now I'm pretty sure that while you'll have massive political differences with O'Doherty and McDonald both, you'll have to concede they come from the nationalist community.

The "unionist veto" is as I have said, the ability of the unionist side of the community to veto any measure regarding the constitutional status on the six counties.

Your definition doesn't make any sense.

Since 1973, there's been the principle of consent, that any change in Northern Ireland's constitutional position must be approved by a majority vite among its people.

There's also been an unofficial unionist and nationalist veto, whereby any actual arrangement involving the people's of Northern Ireland's elected respresentatives in some sort of attempted solution had to have the support of unionist and nationalist majorities.

Hence Unionists were able to (eventually) apply a veto to Sunningdale, and nationalists were able to veto "rolling devolution".

[MW]

So what happened to the Sunningdale Agreement then?

It collapsed. But the Constitution Act remained on the statute book until replaced by the Northern Ireland Act 1998, and British government policy re consent as in both the Sunningdale Agreement and the Constitution Act, remained the same and was spelled out again in the Anglo-Irish Agreement (1985) and the Downing Street Declaration (1993).

Oh let me see, it wasn't a unionist veto by any chance?

Indeed it was - as I said above, from 1973, any institutional arrnagement involving the elected representatives of the people of Northern Ireland was effectively subject to a unionist veto and a nationalist veto - since in reality such an arrangement would need the support of a majority of unionists and nationalists.

That's why unionists were able to veto Sunningdale. That's why nationalists were able to veto "rolling devolution". And that's why unionists weren't able to put a stop to the Anglo-Irish Agreement - no involvement of NI's elected representatives in its workings.

And those same unionist and nationalist vetoes have been enshrined in the architecture of the Belfast Agreement, in the Assembly and the Executive (and the NSMC).

So this unionisyt veto that has "gone" - what was it?

The Government of Ireland Act 1920 provided for the Unionist Veto. That Act has been repealed and the Brits must now legally legislate for a reunited Ireland on 50%+1.

What "veto" did the Government of Ireland Act 1920 provide for?

The principle of consent first came about in legislation in the Ireland Act 1949 - which stated that Northern Ireland's constitutional status would not change without the consent of a majority in the Northern Ireland Parliament. In 1973, with the Parliament gone, this was replaced by the Constitution Act, and the principle of consent took its modern form, i.e. a majority of the people of Northern Ireland. This formula was repeated in the Northern Ireland Act 1998 whose provisions replaced the Constitution Act. In the meantime the British government had repeated their position that they would legislate for a united Ireland on a majority vote (and only on one) in the Sunningdale Agreement, the Anglo-Irish Agreement, the Downing Street Declaration and the Frameworks Documents (which were of course also agreed by the Irish government).

[Donagh]

Now I'm pretty sure that while you'll have massive political differences with O'Doherty and McDonald both, you'll have to concede they come from the nationalist community.

You bet I do so if you want to ague to the toss with me over SF interpretation of phrases you'd better come up with someone better than an ex-Stickie and a self-loathing Uncle Tom.

Since 1973, there's been the principle of consent, that any change in Northern Ireland's constitutional position must be approved by a majority vite among its people.

There's also been an unofficial unionist and nationalist veto, whereby any actual arrangement involving the people's of Northern Ireland's elected respresentatives in some sort of attempted solution had to have the support of unionist and nationalist majorities.

Hence Unionists were able to (eventually) apply a veto to Sunningdale, and nationalists were able to veto "rolling devolution".

The principle of consent has nothing to do with the unionist veto. The unionist veto referred to the ability of the unionist bloc to block any constitutional change whether it was approved by a majority or not.