Milk Cup - marred by sectarianism Dub teams called Fenian b.astards

[T Fearon]

Derry were forced to withdraw in the early 70s after an opposing team's supporters bus was burnt at the Brandywell (can't remember if it was Ballymena or Linfield/IFA). OK you might say, an act of sectarianism but the fact is that Derry supporters were abused at every away ground they went to and not a thing was done against the perpetrators. Similarly with Belfast Celtic's enforced withdrawal in the late 1940s, when they could not guarantee the safety of their own players after the centre forward has his leg broken on the pitch by Linfield/IFA supporters in an attack incited by a loudspeaker announcement from the Linfield/IFA secretary. Also Linfield/IFA's sectarianism was accommodated to the extent that Cliftonville had to play their "home" games against Linfield/IFA at Windsor Park, thus Linfield/IFA were actually rewarded for having sectarian fans.

I'll give you an example. I went by train to the IFA Cup Final in 1972 between Portadown and Coleraine. While passing the Kilwilkie estate on the way to the game, Portadown bigots showered bottles dwon from the train. Not surprisingly this provoked a reaction from the residents who awaited the train's return journey. However it was portrayed in the media as a random sectarian attack on Portadown supporters and the fact that they themselves provoked it was swept aside. I witnessed this with my own eyes.

[Evil Genius]

Unbelievable that a fan of a sport which has signally failed to attract any significant participation or support from the majority community in NI whatever, should make such allegations.

You can take a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
You can't make a colonialist integrate with the local activities.

Ah right, it's all the Prods fault, again. Sorry, I should have known...

[nifan]

Tony youve never answered why an Irish team should prefer the foyle cup to the milk cup??

Could it be that you are just talking shite?

[Gabriel_Hurl]

And isn't "Linfield/IFA" sending a team to the Foyle Cup?

[nifan]

A couple I think, along with teams from all sides of the community.
Another good tournament, but probably a little less prestigious than the milk cup.

[bingobus]

Isn't the Foyle Cup a lower level competition? Or have Monaghan United suddenly become a famous nursery club?

[T Fearon]

Foyle Cup is preferable because all teams from whatever background can participate in safety without fear of attack or sectarian abuse. Sadly you cannot say the same for the Milk Cup.

Gabriel, the fact that Linfield/IFA are taking part simply illustrates my point. Thank you

[Longshanks]

Tony I'm from Coleraine, a Catholic and a GAA fan and I've had to listen to you spout on for the last 9 pages about what a black hole Coleraine iS!!  Im bloody sick of it!
Ok there is protestants there is no doubt and a majority sure! but that doesnt mean its only them go to the milk cup...
Both communities enjoy it fully and its organised with everyone involved, its almost like you want something like this to happen so you can start on the Protestants, their not all like those mindless hooligans that probably scared the life outta those 14-15 year olds.

I go with friends from both communites to it and its fine, you cant account for a few idiots and then tar everyone with the same brush!!!

[nifan]

Tony, like the Milk cup, the foyle cup is cross community.
It is played on a number of locations including new buildings, and drumahoe - which youve previosly described as something akin to your term from coleraine due to some supposed linfield supporters club.

Both are to be lauded, not denigrated or one preferred due to the perceived religion of the local area.

[Longshanks]

Foyle Cup is preferable because all teams from whatever background can participate in safety without fear of attack or sectarian abuse. Sadly you cannot say the same for the Milk Cup.




Tony So you think because a few incidents happened we should move the whole tournament elsewhere??  yeah thats the right move cause it hasnt been successful in Coleraine for 20+ years.... wind your neck in and speak some sense

If there was so much wrong surely clubs would be complaining and not coming??

[Chrisowc]

Back in the other parrallel universe all the credit will go to good humoured jovial Celts.

In fairness DC did go to play in the shankill, which is a big move on their part.

Of course and it's great that this game happened.  That wasn't the point I was making though.

What point were you making then?
It seems to me that rather then tryin to get a dig in at Tony (which I assume is what your point was) and demeaning the achievements of DC and the Shankill rd club, you as a soccer fan would be better off congratulating BOTH clubs without privisos.

By posting a sarcastic comment directed towards Tony, I in no way intended to demean the achievements of either DC and Shankill Utd.  As for congrulating both teams you actually quoted me where I said it was great that the game took place.

Rather, my comment towards Tony was to highlight his double standards, narrow mindedness and his complete hypocrasy as others have done in the thread also.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Back in the other parrallel universe all the credit will go to good humoured jovial Celts.

In fairness DC did go to play in the shankill, which is a big move on their part.

Of course and it's great that this game happened.  That wasn't the point I was making though.

What point were you making then?
It seems to me that rather then tryin to get a dig in at Tony (which I assume is what your point was) and demeaning the achievements of DC and the Shankill rd club, you as a soccer fan would be better off congratulating BOTH clubs without privisos.

By posting a sarcastic comment directed towards Tony, I in no way intended to demean the achievements of either DC and Shankill Utd.  As for congrulating both teams you actually quoted me where I said it was great that the game took place.

Rather, my comment towards Tony was to highlight his double standards, narrow mindedness and his complete hypocrasy as others have done in the thread also.

Chris, I understand what your  saying, but think it was an ill-judged reaction to Tony's incitement, when you said it was good the game went ahead, it was only after nifans comments.
You shouldn't let Tone wind you up. 
On the threads topic, I think that we would both be of the same opinion in comdemning the idiots who did this.

[Evil Genius]

Difference between IFA and GAA.

GAA goes out of its way to make others welcome even those like the RUC/PSNI who have inflicted great hurt on GAA people for generations.

"Goes out of its way?" How, exactly?

IFA remains a staunch bastion of unionism,

What does "staunch bastion of Unionism" mean? The majority, but by no means unanimity, of people involved in NI football may be from that tradition, but so what? The overwhelming majority of people involved in GAA in NI are from the other community. Does that make the GAA a "staunch bastion of Nationalism"?

IFA...  ...will not countenance sharing a new stadium with the GAA,

Utter bullshit, in fact a total lie. The IFA, along with the GAA and UR, publicly committed in principle to playing at the Maze. It is no fault of the IFA that a change of Government looks to have caused the Maze to be binned.

IFA..   ...uses exclusively unionist anthem and symbols

It uses the official anthem of NI, along with symbols which include the Celtic Cross and Shamrocks on an Emerald Green Shirt. As it happens, I and possibly a majority of my fellow NI fans would like to see the Anthem changed, and maybe it will happen, as have other changes (e.g. Sunday ban). But seeing as you have introduced a comparison between football and GAA, what anthem, symbols and imagery does the GAA use at their games, to recognise the existence of the non-Nationalist community in NI? Has there ever been an NI flag, or Union Flag, flown at a GAA game in NI, to compare with, eg, the flying of the Tricolour on the Suffolk Road stand last week when Donegal Celtic entertained Glasgow Celtic?

thus making every so called inetrnational game a rallying point for bigots to display their triumphalism etc.

More blatant lies. The fact is, the IFA has won a host of awards and commendations from both within and outwith Ireland, including the prestigious City of Brussels Award, specifically for the good behaviour and outstanding atmosphere at NI games. That is a fact, as opposed to your utterly false unstantiated rant.

EG, soccer continues in the North across all communities not because of the IFA but in spite of it.

Whereas the GAA continues in NI virtually solely within one community, despite the GAA's "going out of its way to make others welcome", not because of it...  Have you any idea just how fatuous your claims are?

Derry City opt not to play under the auspices of the IFA,

Another lie. Derry City are still a member of the IFA - they just play in the Eircom League, for historic reasons which no longer obtain.

thousands of fans like myself follow the FAI team, players like Gibson opt to play for the FAI team. Need I go on?

People may follow whoever they like. But for some of them - well, you at least - their motives for doing so often say more about them than they do about the ROI or NI teams. As for Gibson, he is only one of a very few who opted as he has done. There are at least as many who have come back into the fold (Kane, O'Connor) as are going the other way. Besides, Gibson wouldn't get in our midfield, at least not ahead of such good Prods as Sammy Clingan or Damien Johnson...

Jim, for years the IFA did nothing about rampant sectarianism in soccer here. Their favoured club was allowed to operate a policy of not recruiting catholics, teams like Belfast Celtic and Derry City were forced out of their league due to a lack of support.

BC withdrew over 60 years ago, DC over 30 years ago. Linfield have been picking RC's for years now. Their present captain is RC (afaik) and they often filed teams with a majority of same. If things are presently so bad as you allege, why do you need to go back so far in history to dig up examples to "prove" your case?

Even now there is no honest acceptance that sectarianism exists

If the IFA doesn't accept there is a problem, why have they set up the Football For All Campaign to counter it? Why has FFA gained awards from all over Ireland, UK, Europe and beyond, including from FIFA and UEFA? For an example, just Google SARI to see what they say about it. Or how Brian Kerr favourably contrasted soccer's efforts in countering Racism etc, with that of the GAA (much less favourable, according to Kerr)

rather it is downplayed (as this incident is, as Healy's mimickry is, as the shameful events of 1993 were etc).

Healy's effort was a misplaced joke, for which he apologised anyhow. You seem to be the only person still concerned by it and then only because by distorting it, you can twist it to suit your bigoted agenda. And 1993 is 15 years ago, in case you'd forgotten: the rest of the world has moved on, even if you haven't.

The IFA has allowed the cancer of sectarianism and monoculturalism to grow to its present uncontrollable levels.

"Uncontrollable"? what the fcuk do you mean by that? When Donegal Celtic can play on the Shankill, Linfield can play at the Brandywell or Gentoran at Cliftonville, all entirely without incident, how can you lie so blatantly?

It is perceived as a unionist icononic symbol.  

By you, perhaps. But even if everyone else shared your bigoted opinion, how do you think the GAA, with whom you compare the IFA, is perceived? No Nationalism there, eh?

In that way I believe it rendered the young lads from Dublin fair game for attack,as it provides a magnet for bigots.

Aye, and no doubt the IFA is responsible for the Darren Graham episode, or the racial abuse of that young lad in Carlow.

You really are a total hypocrite...

[iluvni]

The Milk Cup is a wonderful wee tournament in which young players from all sections of the community in NI compete side by side for their county teams.
Could Mr Fearon point out to me GAA competitions  in which young Protestants and Roman Catholics from Northern Ireland represent their county teams in similar numbers?

[Evil Genius]

Tony I'm from Coleraine, a Catholic and a GAA fan and I've had to listen to you spout on for the last 9 pages about what a black hole Coleraine iS!!  Im bloody sick of it!
Ok there is protestants there is no doubt and a majority sure! but that doesnt mean its only them go to the milk cup...
Both communities enjoy it fully and its organised with everyone involved, its almost like you want something like this to happen so you can start on the Protestants, their not all like those mindless hooligans that probably scared the life outta those 14-15 year olds.

I go with friends from both communites to it and its fine, you cant account for a few idiots and then tar everyone with the same brush!!!

Careful, Longshanks, or you'll have Fearon labelling you a West Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or somesuch.

For myself, I'd only call you a liar, since no Catholic would want to attend the Milk Cup, or feel safe doing so. How do I know? Why Fearon tells me so...