Critical illness cover

[TabClear]

I'm not trying to help sell anything but if I can help a fellow Gael I will. My sister has been selling cover and insurances for donkeys years and if you were looking some professional advice I can pm her number to you...(not to try and get a sale but just some free advice that can help you out).

Jaysus this board just stepped up a level, boys handing out their sisters phone numbers
! 

[illdecide]

I'm not trying to help sell anything but if I can help a fellow Gael I will. My sister has been selling cover and insurances for donkeys years and if you were looking some professional advice I can pm her number to you...(not to try and get a sale but just some free advice that can help you out).

Jaysus this board just stepped up a level, boys handing out their sisters phone numbers
! 

Having been around the board for some years I've a fair idea who to give the number out too and who not ...

If you can't do someone a good turn then you're not worth a sh*te.

[seafoid]

CI cover is not compulsory with a mortgage although brokers often sell it as if it is.
Critical illnesses today are not as critical as they used to be. People have heart attacks and life goes back to normal.
Medical care is hugely improved compared to 20 years ago. Our parents have things like stents implemented over lunchtime now.
Lots of forms of cancer can be treated.
For the ones than can't life insurance is better.

I just don't see the point of paying 20K for a cover that pays out max 80K if you meet the conditions at the time you need to claim.
In my opinion it is not a suitable insurance product.

 

[Abble]

that CI is money well spent if you have 10 years left on a mortgage, say 80k left and you are unable to work, have no future income, a wife and a family wondering where the money for their next 120 mortgage payment is going to come from. its each to their own and what you can afford which is always number one, but a mortgage is a fair debt to leave anyone with

[seafoid]

that CI is money well spent if you have 10 years left on a mortgage, say 80k left and you are unable to work, have no future income, a wife and a family wondering where the money for their next 120 mortgage payment is going to come from. its each to their own and what you can afford which is always number one, but a mortgage is a fair debt to leave anyone with

It all depends on what else you could do with the money and how likely you think the risk is.
How many people out of 100 develop a critical illness that ends their working life before the end of the mortgage ?
anyway we might be in for a big dose of inflation to wipe out all the debt that's strangling us so 80K could be 40 K in no time at all.

[screenexile]

that CI is money well spent if you have 10 years left on a mortgage, say 80k left and you are unable to work, have no future income, a wife and a family wondering where the money for their next 120 mortgage payment is going to come from. its each to their own and what you can afford which is always number one, but a mortgage is a fair debt to leave anyone with

It all depends on what else you could do with the money and how likely you think the risk is.
How many people out of 100 develop a critical illness that ends their working life before the end of the mortgage ?
anyway we might be in for a big dose of inflation to wipe out all the debt that's strangling us so 80K could be 40 K in no time at all.

That's the thing though it doesn't have to end your working life. In a lot of cases it's a cancer that can be cured by operation/treatment and then you're 80k better off afterwards. . .

[Canalman]

Would say it is important for anyone self employed. Tad gung ho (imo anyway) not to have it ( if you can afford it)  if you have a young family and a business.

Guy I used to play football with had a heart attack in his early 40s.......... allowed him to take year plus off work to recover. He told me later that the pressures of recovering and having to pay off the mortgage / fight off banks/ pay bills  etc  would probably have killed him. Think he told me sum was E100,000.

If you don't claim on it then obviously you can look back and call it a waste of money.

[Boycey]

Thanks for the input lads, especially illdecide.

I think what most people are saying is the same as my conscience is telling me, that if I can afford it I should have it. 

[winghalfun]

Seafoid, as someone who works in the financial services industry I will concede that your skepticism is sadly not too uncommon.

However I feel I must put my case on behalf of my colleagues:

Insurance has developed in many forms since practiced by Chinese and Babylonian traders in the 2nd and 3rd centuries.
Someone has to sell it because there always has been a need.

You said that "Critical illnesses today are not as critical as they used to be. People have heart attacks and life goes back to normal."
That is 100% correct – but if someone is going to take a heart attack and life return to normal would that not make critical illness plans even more appealing if they thought that debts or lost income could be replaced during a period of incapacity and recuperation.

You also said "Medical care is hugely improved compared to 20 years ago. Our parents have things like stents implemented over lunchtime now."
Again 100% correct – which is why most plans now have provision for partial payments on less serious heart conditions.

You also state "Lots of forms of cancer can be treated. For the ones that can't life insurance is better."
Only partially correct (the first bit) – however most plans are now sold with built in life cover that costs roughly the same premium than stand alone critical illness cover. So both eventualities are covered.

Finally you conclude with "I just don't see the point of paying 20K for a cover that pays out max 80K if you meet the conditions at the time you need to claim. In my opinion it is not a suitable insurance product."
I appreciate that all of this is your opinion but your example is a very extreme case whereby the premium has been either heavily loaded or the age of the applicant is quite old.

If a policy does not pay out it is for one of two reasons.
1) Non disclosure on the application form – a very reasonable line for insurance companies to take in the overall majority of circumstances.

2) The illness suffered does not fall under the terms of the policy – if so then it's a pity that your cancer or heart attack wasn't more serious because you might have got a payout.

The Martin Lewis line is just staggering
"I'm not a big fan of critical illness policies. Many believe they will "pay out if you get a serious illness and can't work (yes Martin, they do pay out if you get a serious illness)
Yet that isn't true (It is true, I have just told you and I have qualifications to back this up). Critical illness policies pay out a lump sum if you get a specific critical illness – (eh, I thought you said that they don't pay out!!) as defined by the terms of the policy, which can often be changed (no Martin definitely not. Once accepted terms cannot be changed for plans already in force); for example losing one leg isn't critical, but two legs is! (is that an example of one of these changes in terms you are talking about or a random condition you have picked out? And by the way some companies do cover for the loss of one limb – check it out)

So don't think "I'm covered for cancer"; most policies only cover a limited range of cancers. (and many others have a wider more comprehensive range for which you pay a little bit more)

Picking a good critical illness policy would take a doctor and financial nerd combined.
So I suggest you're better off getting
1. Mortgage term cover – (I am so sorry Mr and Mrs Client but you just better hope that you die from your cancer or stroke or heart attack or chron's disease or type 1 diabetes, or permanent disability, or blindness or motor neuron, or brain tumour, or liver failure or chronic arthritis, etc, etc because the mortgage company want their money back)
2. An income protection policy - which does just that - protect your income from a range of eventualities. (but be careful Martin because these plans only pay out a maximum percentage of verifiable earned income, usually 60% as per pay slip or tax returns. What's that? You are only going through the books at £15000 but your actual income is £30000.
Anyway, have you enough to cover you for a couple of months before you need the money? You don't. Oh dear that is going to cost you twice as much then.

This garbage is from an unqualified, multi-millionaire who has made his fortune from selling on leads to insurance companies from people inquiring about critical illness and other insurances.

Tony is right - it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

[seafoid]

Seafoid, as someone who works in the financial services industry I will concede that your skepticism is sadly not too uncommon.

However I feel I must put my case on behalf of my colleagues:

Insurance has developed in many forms since practiced by Chinese and Babylonian traders in the 2nd and 3rd centuries.
Someone has to sell it because there always has been a need.

You said that "Critical illnesses today are not as critical as they used to be. People have heart attacks and life goes back to normal."
That is 100% correct – but if someone is going to take a heart attack and life return to normal would that not make critical illness plans even more appealing if they thought that debts or lost income could be replaced during a period of incapacity and recuperation.

You also said "Medical care is hugely improved compared to 20 years ago. Our parents have things like stents implemented over lunchtime now."
Again 100% correct – which is why most plans now have provision for partial payments on less serious heart conditions.

You also state "Lots of forms of cancer can be treated. For the ones that can't life insurance is better."
Only partially correct (the first bit) – however most plans are now sold with built in life cover that costs roughly the same premium than stand alone critical illness cover. So both eventualities are covered.

Finally you conclude with "I just don't see the point of paying 20K for a cover that pays out max 80K if you meet the conditions at the time you need to claim. In my opinion it is not a suitable insurance product."
I appreciate that all of this is your opinion but your example is a very extreme case whereby the premium has been either heavily loaded or the age of the applicant is quite old.

If a policy does not pay out it is for one of two reasons.
1) Non disclosure on the application form – a very reasonable line for insurance companies to take in the overall majority of circumstances.

2) The illness suffered does not fall under the terms of the policy – if so then it's a pity that your cancer or heart attack wasn't more serious because you might have got a payout.

The Martin Lewis line is just staggering
"I'm not a big fan of critical illness policies. Many believe they will "pay out if you get a serious illness and can't work (yes Martin, they do pay out if you get a serious illness)
Yet that isn't true (It is true, I have just told you and I have qualifications to back this up). Critical illness policies pay out a lump sum if you get a specific critical illness – (eh, I thought you said that they don't pay out!!) as defined by the terms of the policy, which can often be changed (no Martin definitely not. Once accepted terms cannot be changed for plans already in force); for example losing one leg isn't critical, but two legs is! (is that an example of one of these changes in terms you are talking about or a random condition you have picked out? And by the way some companies do cover for the loss of one limb – check it out)

So don't think "I'm covered for cancer"; most policies only cover a limited range of cancers. (and many others have a wider more comprehensive range for which you pay a little bit more)

Picking a good critical illness policy would take a doctor and financial nerd combined.
So I suggest you're better off getting
1. Mortgage term cover – (I am so sorry Mr and Mrs Client but you just better hope that you die from your cancer or stroke or heart attack or chron's disease or type 1 diabetes, or permanent disability, or blindness or motor neuron, or brain tumour, or liver failure or chronic arthritis, etc, etc because the mortgage company want their money back)
2. An income protection policy - which does just that - protect your income from a range of eventualities. (but be careful Martin because these plans only pay out a maximum percentage of verifiable earned income, usually 60% as per pay slip or tax returns. What's that? You are only going through the books at £15000 but your actual income is £30000.
Anyway, have you enough to cover you for a couple of months before you need the money? You don't. Oh dear that is going to cost you twice as much then.

This garbage is from an unqualified, multi-millionaire who has made his fortune from selling on leads to insurance companies from people inquiring about critical illness and other insurances.

Tony is right - it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

I used to price it. I think it's way too expensive.