MPs unite to fight law that will make abortions available in Northern Ireland

[Puckoon]

Eh - you have some valid points pints - but you are comparing apples with sheep shit here. A woman who wanted a child, and who mis-carried is not in the same emotional state as a woman who doesn't want a child and has an abortion.

Maybe not in the same emotional state but they are in the same physical state.  If it was just a case of the woman who miscarried wanting a child she would quickly get over the miscarried baby when she falls pregnant again but this isn't the case.

Can you produce any scenario where a pro choice person would utter such a sentence in this situation which you presented?

Never, they wouldn't have the balls.

Have you ever wondered if a woman has a miscarriage and is (relatively) glad?

I'm sure there's women who have been glad, the selfish ones.

Pints - your half a leg to stand on concerning your latest points is quickly becoming even more unstable with your latest repost.

A woman who has a miscarriage is not in any way equivalent to a woman who undergoes an abortion. No way, Nada, zilch, zero comparsion. You cannot reconcile those two scenarios. Sorry. You've lost that point with no potential for retrieval.

"Never - they wouldn't have the balls" is a terrible cop out - even you with your neck of brass should be ashamed at the quality of that effort

NEWS FLASH - There are selfish people in the world!

[pintsofguinness]

A woman who has a miscarriage is not in any way equivalent to a woman who undergoes an abortion. No way, Nada, zilch, zero comparsion. You cannot reconcile those two scenarios. Sorry. You've lost that point with no potential for retrieval.

They were both pregnant, carrying a baby who died.
Granted one lost the baby due to no fault of her own and mourns for that loss, possibly blames herself, the other had hers murdered - that's the only difference I see.

"Never - they wouldn't have the balls" is a terrible cop out - even you with your neck of brass should be ashamed at the quality of that effort

Not one of you would have the balls to say what you're saying on here to a woman who has miscarried.  What if it was a family member or a friend you were comforting - would "sure it was only a bunch of cells" cross your lips?

[Maguire01]

btw, how many of you in the pro abortion camp would have the balls to tell a woman who's miscarried that it was only a bunch of cells?

Eh - you have some valid points pints - but you are comparing apples with sheep shit here. A woman who wanted a child, and who mis-carried is not in the same emotional state as a woman who doesnt want a child and has an abortion. Even a loon could see how there is a distinction the size of the grand caynon there. Why would anyone say that to a woman who miscarried? Can you produce any scenario where a pro choice person would utter such a sentence in this situation which you presented?

Have you ever wondered if a woman has a mis-carriage and is (relatively) glad?

Agree totally. I wouldn't say that to a woman because i'm not that ignorant or insensitive - not because i 'don't have the balls'. Would it show that i had balls if i said such a thing? Would you admire someone who 'had the balls' to say such a thing?

[pintsofguinness]

Would you admire someone who 'had the balls' to say such a thing?

No, nor if they thought it. 


btw, where would yous draw the line with abortions? (or do you?)
abortions based on the sex of the child ok?
Are abortions if the child will be disabled ok?

[Puckoon]

A woman who has a miscarriage is not in any way equivalent to a woman who undergoes an abortion. No way, Nada, zilch, zero comparsion. You cannot reconcile those two scenarios. Sorry. You've lost that point with no potential for retrieval.

They were both pregnant, carrying a baby who died.
Granted one lost the baby due to no fault of her own and mourns for that loss, possibly blames herself, the other had hers murdered - that's the only difference I see.

"Never - they wouldn't have the balls" is a terrible cop out - even you with your neck of brass should be ashamed at the quality of that effort

Not one of you would have the balls to say what you're saying on here to a woman who has miscarried.  What if it was a family member or a friend you were comforting - would "sure it was only a bunch of cells" cross your lips?

Cop out. Cop out.

Why would you say something like that to a grieving mother? Your twistedness knows no bounds.

Apples. Sheep shit. One and the same now apparently.


"The only difference you see" is my learned friend - the fundamental difference being discussed. You've just shot your entire argument in the arse (at least you wont get it pregnant).

[pintsofguinness]

Sounds to me like you don't have an argument puck.  Lets drop the saying of it - would you be thinking "what's she crying about, it was only a bunch of cells?"

Are you running away from questions again?
To quote myself (like I've had to do several times on this thread now)

btw, where would yous draw the line with abortions? (or do you?)
abortions based on the sex of the child ok?
Are abortions if the child will be disabled ok?

[Maguire01]

Would you admire someone who 'had the balls' to say such a thing?

No, nor if they thought it. 


btw, where would yous draw the line with abortions? (or do you?)
abortions based on the sex of the child ok?
Are abortions if the child will be disabled ok?

Again, not my choice, but not on the basis of sex of a child if the mother otherwise wanted a baby. As for a disabled baby, only in circumstances where the baby/child would not have an acceptable quality of life, or life expectancy was determined to be very short - similar to the choice to terminate a pregnancy if it will have a serious adverse effect on the health and quality of life or life expectancy of the mother.

Sounds to me like you don't have an argument puck.  Lets drop the saying of it - would you be thinking "what's she crying about, it was only a bunch of cells?"

No, i'd be thinking - "she really wanted a baby and she's lost that chance, i hope she's alright".

[pintsofguinness]

Again, not my choice, but not on the basis of sex of a child if the mother otherwise wanted a baby. As for a disabled baby, only in circumstances where the baby/child would not have an acceptable quality of life, or life expectancy was determined to be very short - similar to the choice to terminate a pregnancy if it will have a serious adverse effect on the health and quality of life or life expectancy of the mother.

But I thought you boys were for "choice"?  I thought it was none of our business what any woman did with her body?

[Puckoon]

Ill answer those questions once you've dug yourself out of this hole. Its convenient to change the argument to your questions when you are struggling so badly with my own.

If a mother lost a child she wanted, I would be vexed for her. The irony of a world where people who want kids can sometimes struggle to concieve, and those who dont want kids/dont raise kids well, can concieve all to easily is not lost on me. If a mother aborted a child she didnt want, I would feel nothing.

Abortions based on the sex of the child are in my opinion gratuitous. - edit
Abportions based on a pending disability are a grey area, Id have to think about that one from my own personal perspective. I would not abort my own child in this situation most likely. I do not condemn those who would.


I should add - soley based on the sex of the child. For example - we'd have a boy, but abort a girl.

[Maguire01]

Again, not my choice, but not on the basis of sex of a child if the mother otherwise wanted a baby. As for a disabled baby, only in circumstances where the baby/child would not have an acceptable quality of life, or life expectancy was determined to be very short - similar to the choice to terminate a pregnancy if it will have a serious adverse effect on the health and quality of life or life expectancy of the mother.

But I thought you boys were for "choice"?  I thought it was none of our business what any woman did with her body?

I am for choice. I said the choice wasn't mine - did you miss that bit? I thought you wanted my own opinion on those specific scenarios, otherwise why be specific(?)

[Maguire01]

Again, not my choice, but not on the basis of sex of a child if the mother otherwise wanted a baby. As for a disabled baby, only in circumstances where the baby/child would not have an acceptable quality of life, or life expectancy was determined to be very short - similar to the choice to terminate a pregnancy if it will have a serious adverse effect on the health and quality of life or life expectancy of the mother.

But I thought you boys were for "choice"?  I thought it was none of our business what any woman did with her body?

I am for choice. I said the choice wasn't mine - did you miss that bit? I thought you wanted my own opinion on those specific scenarios, otherwise why be specific(?)

To quote my own post for an afterthought - evidence surely that 'pro-choice' does not necessarily mean 'pro-abortion'.

[pintsofguinness]

So basically Maguire, you have you think a woman should be able to abort a baby if it's not the sex she wants?
I'm not asking what yous would do if it was your partner that was pregnant - I'm trying to establish if there is anywhere you draw the line with regards to abortion?

To quote my own post for an afterthought - evidence surely that 'pro-choice' does not necessarily mean 'pro-abortion'.

Course it does.

You still haven't told me what constitutes human life by the way.

[pintsofguinness]

Ill answer those questions once you've dug yourself out of this hole. Its convenient to change the argument to your questions when you are struggling so badly with my own.

If a mother lost a child she wanted, I would be vexed for her. The irony of a world where people who want kids can sometimes struggle to concieve, and those who dont want kids/dont raise kids well, can concieve all to easily is not lost on me. If a mother aborted a child she didnt want, I would feel nothing.

Abortions based on the sex of the child are in my opinion gratuitous.
Abportions based on a pending disability are a grey area, Id have to think about that one from my own personal perspective. I would not abort my own child in this situation most likely. I do not condemn those who would.

I'm not sure what hole I'm in puck - I think it's clear that an unborn baby is only a "foetus" or "bunch of cells" when it suits your agenda.
Why would you be against aborting a baby if it was because of the sex?  Surely it's still only a "bunch of cells"?

[achadh gallain]

A few girls at my age have had children, unexpected during school/uni... im sure these girls had a very hard time coming to terms with their pregnancy and at such a young age. I was chatting to one of them the other day and she hasnt been happier with the child. She adores it, and even though it came as a shock to start off with, everyone came to terms with it and now its spoiled rotten and going to have a brilliant life.

In my opinion, i think abortion is out of the question and i could never put myself through it, nor do i know how anybody goes through with killing an innocent child. There are ways round it, adoption, surrogate mothers etc etc... abortion would just be the "easy" way out.
Fair enough, i understand that if girls have been sexually abused and arent willing to have the hild, thats a different situation altogether. Though in my opinion it should still have a chance at laugh, no matter how it was conceived.

[Puckoon]

It is a fetus or a bunch of cells regardless of my agenda - whats your agenda here? You have sidestepped every question that isnt one of your own, and most of your most recent ones are scrapping the bottom of the barrell. You really are acting a fool of epic proportions, but the thing is, you are no fool. Why play one?

I have no agenda, proven by the fact that even in my most personal scenario, I have the sense to realise that my progeny was not always a human, or a baby or a child. She was a fetus, and even before that only a few cells. That changes nothing with regards to my feelings for her. Others may not feel the same - that is their decision to bear.

Over and out.