Hi Ho, Hi Ho........

[An Fear Rua]

and about time too

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7516551.stm

Benefit shake-up 'revolutionary'

Benefit claimants could be forced to pick up litter and erase graffiti under plans to be unveiled by ministers.

The Welfare Green Paper is set to include proposals to force those unemployed for more than two years to work full-time in the community.

Incapacity benefit will be scrapped as part of a scheme to get more people claiming the benefit back to work.

Minister James Purnell says the plans will "transform lives". The Tories say many of the ideas are theirs.

This shake-up will apply to all 4.5 million people on out-of-work benefits, but is expected to impact most on those on Jobseekers Allowance.

Conservative support

Under plans laid out in the Green Paper, claimants will have to carry out four weeks' community work once they have been unemployed for more than a year.

After two years, they will be ordered to work full-time in the community.

Incapacity Benefit claimants will all move to the new Employment Support Allowance by 2013, which ministers hope will be regarded, for all but the most disabled people, as a temporary benefit.

People who have been signed off sick will have a new medical check with someone who is not their own GP.

Drug addicts are also being targeted, with the government expecting them to declare their problem and to embark on treatment in return for benefits.

The Conservatives say they will support many of the proposals, effectively neutralising any Labour backbench opposition.

The Liberal Democrats have welcomed some elements of the Green Paper, but are reserving their judgment on whether to support ministers.

Mr Purnell, the work and pensions secretary, said the welfare reforms being proposed were "revolutionary".

He told BBC Five Live Breakfast: "People have an obligation to work and the benefit system is not there to give you a choice between benefits and work; it's there to help you when you can't find work.

"If you can find work you should take it, if there isn't work there you should take steps to get back into work."

But people who do not take up the offer of support would lose benefits, said Mr Purnell.

He said the government wanted to get one million people off incapacity benefit by 2015.

But former welfare reform minister Frank Field told the BBC's Today programme he doubted the proposals would make any difference.

Tough choices

"The key fault in the old system is being brought into the new system, and that is if you can get through the employment capacity test... you'll get onto a higher rate of benefit," he said.

Mr Field said he had been arguing for 10 years that there should be a single rate of benefit for people of working age who were unable to work. They should be funded via the Disability Living Allowance, not benefits, he said.

"The whole emphasis here, naturally, will be for people not to get jobs but to get onto the higher rate of benefit," he added.

In February government welfare adviser David Freud suggested less than a third of the 2.7 million people claiming the benefit were doing so legitimately.

Conservative leader David Cameron said: "What (Mr Purnell) has done is very much taken the ideas we came up with in January, that are very clearly thought through and involve tough choices."

[ziggysego]

I'm sure someone will try and stop it under 'Human Rights'

Good news though.

[T Fearon]

About ten years too late but welcome nevertheless. Too many spongers running about wanting for nothing laughing at those who work

[ildanach]

i wish they would follow this lead here. but there would be up roar. how would they be able to do theri cash in hand nixers if they had to work!
An add on  to the policy should be that if they ring in sick that the day is docked from their benifit unless they have a cert from the doctor.

[Square Ball]

great idea in principal, but if we use unemployed to collecte the litter and all that will that not create more unemployment?

[Niall Quinn]

great idea in principal, but if we use unemployed to collecte the litter and all that will that not create more unemployment?

Diamond Dan dosen't drop litter, does that mean he's pro unemployment down time?

[red hander]

About ten years too late but welcome nevertheless. Too many spongers running about wanting for nothing laughing at those who work

Ironic indeed considering you've unashamedly sponged so many freebies that if you were lying at the bottom of the Atlantic you would have lowered the sea level by two feet

[Pangurban]

Another attack on the already marginalised who are easy targets and provide a plausible excuse to drive down wages. When will we see the same attention being given to the the tax dodging fat cats in the city of London, or the outrageous perks and expenses of MPs. What about the millions of unclaimed benefit entitlements due to pensioners and the severely handicapped. Can we expect a government drive to make people aware of their entitlements. Dont hold your breath, their is to much effort going into withholding such payments. At the present time we are bombarded with stories of rising crime figures, economic doom and gloom and growing insecurity. These phenomema are always the precursors of those who seek to impose a stern right agenda. Their world view is power,business and profit and their methods are war and repression. they have no humanitarian sentiment, they will trample on the rights of the sick and unemployed today and you and me tomorrow. These are the same people who claim that massive cuts in education and health budgets are being made to IMPROVE services. Who are these people. The IMF, and the huge industrial and military corporations, who dictate to and treat national governments as their servants. We may have to submit to this crap, but lets not approve it or be fooled by it

[pintsofguinness]

Another attack on the already marginalised who are easy targets and provide a plausible excuse to drive down wages.

Well if they'd get off their arse and get out and get a job they wouldn't be attacked.

Do you think it's fair that people work and have chunks of their wages taken so these wasters can sit around the house/in the pub all day?

[An Fear Rua]

Another attack on the already marginalised who are easy targets and provide a plausible excuse to drive down wages.

Well if they'd get off their arse and get out and get a job they wouldn't be attacked.

Do you think it's fair that people work and have chunks of their wages taken so these wasters can sit around the house/in the pub all day?

loads of problems out there, this is a step in the right direction to fix one of them, there are those who dont approve, mind your lentils..

[ONeill]

Another attack on the already marginalised who are easy targets and provide a plausible excuse to drive down wages. When will we see the same attention being given to the the tax dodging fat cats in the city of London, or the outrageous perks and expenses of MPs. What about the millions of unclaimed benefit entitlements due to pensioners and the severely handicapped. Can we expect a government drive to make people aware of their entitlements. Dont hold your breath, their is to much effort going into withholding such payments. At the present time we are bombarded with stories of rising crime figures, economic doom and gloom and growing insecurity. These phenomema are always the precursors of those who seek to impose a stern right agenda. Their world view is power,business and profit and their methods are war and repression. they have no humanitarian sentiment, they will trample on the rights of the sick and unemployed today and you and me tomorrow. These are the same people who claim that massive cuts in education and health budgets are being made to IMPROVE services. Who are these people. The IMF, and the huge industrial and military corporations, who dictate to and treat national governments as their servants. We may have to submit to this crap, but lets not approve it or be fooled by it

Excellent response. That was the first thing I thought when I heard it on the news this morning - the easy target approach. Instead of targeting the billions being wasted through fat-cat misdemeanors and high ranking backhanders/perks/business agreements/ministerial fraud, they pick on an area that's relatively easy to address yet will make minimal effect to the economy as compared to other failings.

[pintsofguinness]

loads of problems out there, this is a step in the right direction to fix one of them, there are those who dont approve, mind your lentils..

Plenty of problems alright - people on permanent dole, getting housing benefits, free prescriptions, dental care etc on top of it, maybe allowances for heat etc- anyone working on minimum wage or even double minimum wage are no better off than these wasters and that's not to talk of the poor oul divils who have worked all their life, paying taxes etc, and now in their old age they havent a penny. 

Don't get me started on child benefits and benefits for "single" parents or 12 months of "maternity" leave.   


Sure people fall on hard times, no work, illness etc and that's fair enough, they should be looked after - as well as the elderly - but most people on benefits are work shy wasters.