Hatred

[Sideshow Bob]

I was in Belfast yeaterday for the first time in years. The whole 12th thing doesnt seem as big as it once was. Yes the place is still decked out in bunting in flags, but not to the same extent as it was 10 or 20 years ago. Even The Village doesnt seem to be as bad as it was, there actually seemed to be ordinary working people living there now, maybe even students. A previous poster likened it to a dog marking out its territory and I would agree with that to an extent, but you can teach a dog not to wee on its neighbours property, could you do that to some of those nice gentlemen that sit outside the pub on the corner of Sandy Row/Donegall Rd ?

[Loughers]

Young lads burning Union Jacks down estates is wrong.  However, this will not feature on Newsline and UTVLive as the 11th night will.  Will any of the reporters mention that the flag of a soverign nation is being burned on the bonfire?  Will they f*ck.  If that's what passes for Unionist/Loyalist culture, they can f*cking stick it up their hole.  We keep trying to builf bridges, they keep burning them, literally.

[nifan]

Loughers, Ive seen very negative reports of some 11th bonfires on the news in the past - particularly ones where there were so called "shows of strength".
Im pretty sure ive seen images of tricolours being burned too.

[fred the red]

Loughers, Ive seen very negative reports of some 11th bonfires on the news in the past - particularly ones where there were so called "shows of strength".
Im pretty sure ive seen images of tricolours being burned too.

Usually reported reported along the theme of 'wasnt is a great day had by all'.

Do you think that bonfires should have their place in society?

Forget all about the burning of the flags, these bonfires are wrong full stop.

[nifan]

Well i have no interest in burning things myself, but each to their own.
However I do agree that unless they are properly managed they should not be allowed - that is with respect to safety, fumes, damage to public and private property, "shows of strength"
I dare say the majority would fail on these.
Also any incidents of fire crews being attacked/prevented doing their duty should be a red card for any such activity.

[fred the red]

Well i have no interest in burning things myself, but each to their own.
However I do agree that unless they are properly managed they should not be allowed - that is with respect to safety, fumes, damage to public and private property, "shows of strength"
I dare say the majority would fail on these.
Also any incidents of fire crews being attacked/prevented doing their duty should be a red card for any such activity.

How can a bonfire be 'properly managed' so that they dont pollute the atmosphere??

Could you give one reason why they should be allowed to continue? there simply is no place for them in a modern society.

[nifan]

Well obviously a minimum amount of pollution must be assumed, but much activity that people choose to do for recreation also causes pollution.
Burning of materials which give out more toxic fumes should of course be banned.

As for a reason why they should continue - people are entitled to do what they want within the law. Going to a bonfire may not be the most modern or classy thing to do, but if properly managed I dont see why they should be forced to stop.

[fred the red]

Well obviously a minimum amount of pollution must be assumed, but much activity that people choose to do for recreation also causes pollution.
Burning of materials which give out more toxic fumes should of course be banned.

As for a reason why they should continue - people are entitled to do what they want within the law. Going to a bonfire may not be the most modern or classy thing to do, but if properly managed I dont see why they should be forced to stop.

Thats the point, the law should change to ban this primitive act.

[nifan]

Simply because its primitive?
As I said I agree that it should be banned unless it can meet certain requirements, but you cant just ban it due to it being "primitive"

[Square Ball]

all is they have to do is call it a beacon and bobs you uncle, sorted, legit and above board.

[stiffler]

Simply because its primitive?
As I said I agree that it should be banned unless it can meet certain requirements, but you cant just ban it due to it being "primitive"

here's a few reasons why they should be banned, as has been outlined by this thread:

1) burning of tricolours

2) parlamilitary shows of strength

3) underage drinking/anti social behaviour

4) drain of already overstretched fire and ambulance services

5) Toxic fumes from the burning of waste

6) the cleanup operation, and associated costs to taxpayers

7) rubbish collections for months beforehand

primitive in nature 



I dont think you can argue too much with this list, however im sure you will come up with some 'reason' why the should be allowed to continue.

there simply is no place for this in a modern society. You havnt provided any reasons why it should be allowed to continue.

[Maguire01]

The problem though is that they are indulged and rewarded for the hatred and bigotry. Look even in our own country where Articles 2 and 3 have been withdrawn, the principle of (one sided) consent has been conceded, and the free state government indulges Love Ulster Parade Organisers at Leinster House and grants them leave to March provoking mayhem in Dublin

A quick reminder - Articles 2 and 3 were withdrawn following a referendum, overwhelmingly endorsed by 94% of the Irish voters in the south, and a similar proportion of northern nationalists. I think most people realised that they were merely symbolic and would not hasten a united Ireland.

The 'free state government' shouldn't stoop to the petty levels of argument with the Love Ulster rabble. Let them do their walk thing, and let everyone have a good smirk. The mayhem was the result of hoods. I wouldn't agree with one thing that comes out of Frazer's mouth, but i'd be more likely to laugh at him poncing around Dublin, that pick up a brick, fight the Gardaí or wreck my own city.

[nifan]

Stifler did you read my post earlier where i said they should be banned if they breech those things before you start accusing me?

[stiffler]

Stifler did you read my post earlier where i said they should be banned if they breech those things before you start accusing me?

Accuse you of what?

Do you believe bonfires have a place in modern society?

Do you think if the government set the conditions outlined many would attend?

[nifan]

Do you believe bonfires have a place in modern society?

They dont have any place for me.
If people want to have a social occasion based around a bonfire it does not bother me greatly, aside from hte things mentioned.
Banning things because we dont like is not necessarily the way forward.

Do you think if the government set the conditions outlined many would attend?

I would say yes, but then we dont really know do we.
Not all bonfires that currently exist do all of the things in the list, and people attend them all.

I do believe it would be easier to police some of the points than others - underage drinking is a problem at most social events - some people even suggested cancelling the haloween festivities in derry based on it.