Offaly v Down 19/20 July

[dodgy umpire]

i didnt intend to come off as if i was dismissing your opinion, merely questioning it. who should start ahead of him?

[D4S]

I'd stick with the forward line as it is for offaly.  Clarke is very strong on the ball and had a great league campaign and the way in each of the 3 championship games this year mccumisky has been put on for him probably hasnt helped his confidence.   In the tyrone replay in newry he was really getting into the game in the 2nd half and had scored a great point to then be substituted and mccumisky had no impact.  I really don't want to get into ridiculiing the management at all as I belive thery have brought the team on a lot this year...we are competing against Tyrone + Armagh which we couldnt do in the last 4or5 years.  But the 1 thing where clarke is concerned I would be thinking is that they need to let him know he is not just there to fill a position until they decide mccumisky is ready to start a full match.  A player without confidence is not good for the team and he was by no means the worst when taken off against tyrone and armagh.

[western exile]

I am looking forward to this one.  I have met a lot of Offaly people on my travels over the years, and they all have a similar shared interest in Gaelic Football as Down people do. We can talk to them about things we cannot talk to our neighbour county about.   For example, you can talk to them about the great teams of '60 and '61, even if you are not old enough to have been there, because their parents remember the teams of both counties and have passed on the memories.  We even share the record attendence at an All-Ireland final with them (I doubt that we will be squeezing so many Offaly and Down bodies into Tullamore on the 19th  ).  I know we played them not so long ago in a League Div 2 final, but was the last championship meeting the AI semi-final 1981?

[Leo]

Ross and DJ?
Not my choice 2 years ago but while they havent set the place alight I'd be prepared at this stage to say give them another year.
In truth O'Rourke had gone a long way to re-energising Down and restoring pride but the disaster of Sligo derailed him badly.
Not much has changed - not event the squad - except for youngbloods like McComiskey, Colgan, McKernan & Carr. But the gutsyness of the Tyrone games suggests to me that Ross & DJ should have another year with this team - if DJ can somehow (Holy God!) be brought under control.
Too early to talk about replacement but previous experience should not always be the only test. After all both Ross & DJ had distinctly unprofitable stints with Monaghan clubs as their CV highlights.
I do think Paddy got more out of Coulter for whatever reason than has been seen since.

[Whitehair]

Are there any forest parks or camping facilites around Tullamore? Fair few interested about heading down but between Oxegen and other holidays booked £££'s a bit tight so considering other options for accomodation.

[Lone Shark]

Are there any forest parks or camping facilites around Tullamore? Fair few interested about heading down but between Oxegen and other holidays booked £££'s a bit tight so considering other options for accomodation.

Now there's a question you don't see very often. You're about 20/25 minutes drive from Kinnitty which is up in the Slieve Bloom mountains and gets a lot of that stuff, but I'm not sure what would be on offer within the town, within walking distance of going out areas.

(Lone Shark turns to ask other people in the office....)

Upon investigating this, it appears that this is also the weekend of Tullamore's Phoenix Festival - Arts, Ballooning and all sorts of assorted random-ness. This has two knock on effects - (1) Accomodation in the town will be hard come by, and may be expensive, and (2) Chances are Dudley Stewart will have the grounds of Charleville Castle open for camping. He tends to do this for the festivals, plus he's fairly helpful to those of a backpacking nature normally. I'm not sure who you'd contact to confirm that though.

[Fíor Gael]

Is it just me, are is anyone else disappointed by how little Ronan Murtagh has to offer in big games? Why is a such a gifted and hard working player so ineffective in important matches? And I doubt if it's anything to do with a lack of confidence!! Where is his best position and when are Down going to get the performance out off him that most people believe is in him??

[stiff breeze]

the team should be the same except dan mc cartan should be swapped with monk cole and john clarke with mc comiskey. dan was found out big time against ronan clarke on sunday, he lacks pace and strength. John clarke is not a corner forward .  the talk of hugh davey is laughable.

that is all

With respect to Dan, he spent a lot of the year injured and did'nt benefit from training and matches like the rest of the squad and should get sharper with a couple of more matches. He bottled Cavanagh up well in Newry and should keep his place. I dont think we have any defenders who would have restricted Ronan Clarke (One of the bets full forwards in Ireland) more effectively on Sunday. Dan along with Cole and any of our other full/corner backs are lacking in the height department and simply would not compete with Clarke in the air. 

The full back line should be McCartan, Cole and Howard - 3 tight markers albeit not the tallest. I would also like to see someone drop in in front of them to limit any space in front of goal.

It was not high balls that were the reason for his downfall. clarke was in front for every run except 2 or 3. cavanagh is not a natural full forward so that point carries no weight.  monk cole is a better choice with rafferty and howard

[Joe Umbrella (hey)]

the team should be the same except dan mc cartan should be swapped with monk cole and john clarke with mc comiskey. dan was found out big time against ronan clarke on sunday, he lacks pace and strength. John clarke is not a corner forward .  the talk of hugh davey is laughable.

that is all

With respect to Dan, he spent a lot of the year injured and did'nt benefit from training and matches like the rest of the squad and should get sharper with a couple of more matches. He bottled Cavanagh up well in Newry and should keep his place. I dont think we have any defenders who would have restricted Ronan Clarke (One of the bets full forwards in Ireland) more effectively on Sunday. Dan along with Cole and any of our other full/corner backs are lacking in the height department and simply would not compete with Clarke in the air. 

The full back line should be McCartan, Cole and Howard - 3 tight markers albeit not the tallest. I would also like to see someone drop in in front of them to limit any space in front of goal.

It was not high balls that were the reason for his downfall. clarke was in front for every run except 2 or 3. cavanagh is not a natural full forward so that point carries no weight.  monk cole is a better choice with rafferty and howard


Whats your defination of a "natural" full forward? I personally dont think theres any such thing, maybe you meant 'sterotypical' full forward

Heres my defination of a sterotypical full forward:

Good in the air
Strong
Fast/mobile
Clinical in front of goal (with regards to points and goals)
Good mobility
Ability to bring others into play
Creative

All attributes to Sean Cavanagh I would say!

[Joe Umbrella (hey)]

Apologies for my last post, Im not in the habit of quoting myself but still getting to grips with the this message board carry on!

[stiff breeze]

for a start cavanagh didnt want to play in there, (his words) , this affected his performance imo. Also dan didn do all that well on him, he fouled the life out of him all the game and every time the ball went in2 our full back line I was nervous. If you put a midfielder in the full forward line  it unbalances the other forwards as they are not used to this scenerio. Also as this is not the players normal position he doesnt know wat runs to make or when to back up or pull away from the other forwards. These are the reasons cavanagh did not trouble mc cartan as much as clarke did and another full forward would.

[western exile]

Anyway....  Back to this game.....

I have not seen Offaly play this year.  Maybe some of the Offaly posters might have some thoughts on how they think they can win this game. 

[Joe Umbrella (hey)]

for a start cavanagh didnt want to play in there, (his words) , this affected his performance imo. Also dan didn do all that well on him, he fouled the life out of him all the game and every time the ball went in2 our full back line I was nervous. If you put a midfielder in the full forward line  it unbalances the other forwards as they are not used to this scenerio. Also as this is not the players normal position he doesnt know wat runs to make or when to back up or pull away from the other forwards. These are the reasons cavanagh did not trouble mc cartan as much as clarke did and another full forward would.

Are you talking about the Ulster senior football championship matches? What you have just described sounds like an audition for Riverdance.

When Donaghy went into full forward for Kerry was the Gooch "unbalanced"? Did the star not " know wat runs to make or when to back up or pull away from the other forwards"

Did the same apply to Vinnie Corry last year and Barry Owens against Doire.

Just to finish this debate once and for all, Cavanagh scored 1 - 1 (4 points) when being marked by Monk Cole in Omagh and also won a couple of scorable frees. He scored 0-4 (4 points) when being marked by McCartan in the replay and again won a couple of scoreable frees. Cavanagh was Tyrones best player by a country mile in both games but both markers did a decent enough job on him, as both would do on Ronan Clarke. Like I mentioned before Dan McCartan is not 100% fit at the moment, yet still merits a place on the team alongside Cole!

[SCENTOFSAM]

Dan McCartan is not senior county material period. Good club player and thats it. This was always going to be the  team's achilles on Sunday and so it transpired. There is no easy answer as there are no Brian Burns, Conor Deegan clones around but Cole is a much better option.

[stiff breeze]

Anyway....  Back to this game.....

I have not seen Offaly play this year.  Maybe some of the Offaly posters might have some thoughts on how they think they can win this game. 

do 1 you pr**k

for a start cavanagh didnt want to play in there, (his words) , this affected his performance imo. Also dan didn do all that well on him, he fouled the life out of him all the game and every time the ball went in2 our full back line I was nervous. If you put a midfielder in the full forward line  it unbalances the other forwards as they are not used to this scenerio. Also as this is not the players normal position he doesnt know wat runs to make or when to back up or pull away from the other forwards. These are the reasons cavanagh did not trouble mc cartan as much as clarke did and another full forward would.

Are you talking about the Ulster senior football championship matches? What you have just described sounds like an audition for Riverdance.

When Donaghy went into full forward for Kerry was the Gooch "unbalanced"? Did the star not " know wat runs to make or when to back up or pull away from the other forwards"

Did the same apply to Vinnie Corry last year and Barry Owens against Doire.

Just to finish this debate once and for all, Cavanagh scored 1 - 1 (4 points) when being marked by Monk Cole in Omagh and also won a couple of scorable frees. He scored 0-4 (4 points) when being marked by McCartan in the replay and again won a couple of scoreable frees. Cavanagh was Tyrones best player by a country mile in both games but both markers did a decent enough job on him, as both would do on Ronan Clarke. Like I mentioned before Dan McCartan is not 100% fit at the moment, yet still merits a place on the team alongside Cole!

You just backed up my point for the change. Against monk cole 2 scores and against dan mc cartan 4 scores. The stats dont lie. mc cartan didnt do " a decent job "  on ronan clarke therefore should not be in the back line for the offaly game IMO