Mayo v Galway - Connacht Final 13/07/08 14:00 McHale Park, Castlebar

[Barney]

I think Cafferkey's injury in the winter goosed him. Expect to see him next year.

RnG there is hope with a lot of those players. Personally i don't think Boyle is good enough. I was sitting along his wing at the 2006 u21 Final and he had to be subbed after 20 minutes. Roasted. And it has been the same most days since. We anoint to many footballers on the basis that they can run fast.

Horan is spot on with his analysis. If John Maughan or Mickey Moran had prepared the Mayo team in the same manner over the past two years they would be hanging from the Mall in Castlebar! All the same O'Mahony has to be given time. We would be the laughing stock of the country if we shafted him. Ultimately I believe Noel Connelly is the man for the job but 2 or 3 years time will be his coming.

O'Mahony was, I think, 100% right to adopt a horses for courses approach.

I think he was wrong. All winter our backs have been pulled apart with their naivite. You can't create classy forwards, but a back line can be coached properly. Six man markers was not the way to go. I think our backs have been badly coached, and our players in general have been badly coached for many years. Fitness, natural skill - we have it. Tactically we are a million miles away.

I'm suprised nobody has picked up on the point I made earlier in the week about how similar the game was to the league match between the two teams. It is shocking that lessons were not learned.

And then again for the second year in a row the glaring problems have the league were ignored and now the changes have to be made in high Summer.

I really do despair.

[RedandGreenSniper]

I'm not sure what you are suggesting Barney. I know perhaps coaching on likes of Conroy and Boyle etc wasn't too evident but when you have a brittle enough defence, which we do at the minute, you are proababy best employed trying to put your weaker players on players they can handle rather than think they can cope with anyone that comes into their zone.
But I just think O'Mahony got the match-ups badly wrong.
Regarding Cafferkey he was flying for the Under 21's in spring, can't understand why he wasn't brought on from there. And yeah Connelly looks to be next in line. Wouldn't be surprised if Holmes was in with him though 

[Barney]

The game is not as simple as 6 backs marking 6 forwards. The top class managers like Harte and O'Connor are able to devise systems of play to shore up weaknesses. Tyrone did not have a brilliant defence on paper when they won the AI and no full-backs but worked around it. My feeling is that JOM has been left behind.

[Lar Naparka]

Blanket man to man marking puzzles me; all I can see are problems, with little or no apparent advantages. I am genuinely perplexed here and not taking a lash at The Messiah or anything like that.
Maybe someone would be kind enough to enlighten me.
It seems to me that if all defenders and midfielders are instructed to shadow a particular opponent, the initiative always lies with the opposition.
Let us say that Liam Sammon decides to move Barry Cullinane forward to where an orthodox full forward normally operates and this is done as part of a rehearsed ploy.
Ronan McGarrity would then be designated to follow him.

Barry might not be much of a full forward but Ronan would be even less of a full back.

Furthermore, Ronan would have the additional disadvantage of having to adapt to different colleagues beside him as Sammon could deliberately switch his forwards about at will and Mayo would then have to keep reacting in response.
To my inexpert way of thinking, the traditional concept of zone defending makes far more sense and gives defenders the opportunity of building up cohesion and understanding with those around them.
Does any other county go in for man to man marking to the extent Mayo does?
Someone with a good memory might tell me if Mayo's policy is more effective in keeping opposition scores down than was the case before this man on man stuff came to pass.

[Barney]

Lar I  agree (had to edit that - misread first time!). If an attacking team kicks balls to their forwards the back is going to lose out some of the time, and to a deadly forward like a Meehan or Joyce they will take that opportunity. They only need the ball 3 or 4 times in a dangerous position to do the damage. So supply has to be cut out.

John Maughan has dusted down the gloves for JOM (in a nice way but OUCH!!)

Despite scoring seven points on the day, Alan Dillon ended up on the loosing side in last weekends Connacht Final. (Photo: Sportsfile)

The day started off so well last Sunday with the minors doing the business with a merited, if uninspiring, victory over Roscommon in the curtain raiser. One never knows how many of these young men will go on to play senior inter county football, but it was hugely significant and important that we stopped the rot of loosing provincial deciders at this grade. A noticeable feature of this game was the physical stature of the subs used during the match. They were so much bigger and stronger than the players they were replacing. Quite a few people have commented to me on lots of occasions about the great big minor teams Mayo produced year on year at this level decades ago. I just thought the gene mix in the last few decades wasn't producing big strapping lads like we once did. I suppose the size of young footballers years ago could have something to do with the fact that these young cubs would be fed on good wholesome, home produced fare that added the right kind of poundage. There is no doubt that size counts at this level. Last Sunday proved that there are big lads around the place. It was just a question of finding them and getting them involved at this level.


A good start was essential

There was a great air of anticipation around the town for the senior game from early morning. Helicopters were arriving at the rear of McHale Park prior to the game bringing its own bit of excitement and razz matazz to the occasion. McHale Park was hosting its last Connacht final in its present format, before a major revamp will see will it as a state of the art 40,000 capacity stadium. It will arguably be the best provincial venue in the country for its next Connacht final. There was a fantastic crowd of close to 32,000 at the match on Sunday, which is a brilliant attendance, when you consider that numbers have been falling around the country at championship matches this year.

Then again, Galway and Mayo games have always tickled the fancy of followers of football as both teams are renowned for playing a style of football that is easy on the eye. It was expected that Mayo would really tear into Galway after the disappointing manner in which they were beaten in last year's Connacht semi final in Pearse Stadium. In fact the opposite transpired. Mayo were slow out of the blocks and very lethargic in the opening twenty minutes, with the defence, in particular, leaking all over the place. Of course there was a doubt coming into this game about a number of positions in that Mayo defence and their ability to contain a very potent Galway attack.


Doubts were justified

Unfortunately the doubts were justified as Kieran Conroy and Colm Boyle were called ashore minutes after Galway had raced into a seven point lead. Now it would be wrong of me to criticise those players in any way. They went out to do their best and unfortunately it just didn't happen for them on the day. However the majority of football people realise that Kieran Conroy will not make a full back. His basic instinct is just not defence minded enough to cut it at this level. Most of his football has been played at midfield with his club and in my opinion he should have been considered for a position other than in the full back line.

Colm Boyle is an orthodox wing back and I believe it is for one of those positions he should have been considered for Sunday's game. Remember we were destroyed in Pearse Stadium last year when we ended up playing two wing backs in our full back line for twenty minutes of the opening half. We should have learned from that. If you can keep it tight at the back, and in particular not concede goals, I always feel you have a chance of success. When Peadar Gardiner and Aidan Higgins were eventually introduced, they had an immediate impact with both bringing experience and a stabilising influence to proceedings.

Whenever you play Galway it is so important to nullify their most influential player. Our National league match in McHale Park earlier this year and Galway's championship matches in this year's campaign confirmed that Padraig Joyce is still Galway's most influential player. To win last Sunday we needed a sticky man-marker with the simple instruction to stick with Joyce wherever he went.

David Heaney was not the man for this role. David is a ball player who loves to drive forward at any opportunity and by doing so last Sunday; he left huge holes in defence. It's also a pity we didn't have Ger Cafferkey from Ballina togged out on Sunday. He is a player that has caught the eye having represented Mayo at under 21 level for three years. I thought he was excellent in this year's campaign. He did a fantastic job on no less a player than Kerry's Tommy Walsh in this years All Ireland semi final. I think he should have been involved last Sunday. In past years when playing Galway in the championship we had a player from Shrule Glencorrib, who thrived on doing a man-marking job on Michael Meehan. Dermot Geraghty had an excellent record on Meehan at all levels, holding him to a handful of scores having marked him at all grades and Sigerson cup competition for over six years. Surely he could have been carried as the 30th player on the squad, even if only for this game? That would have released Keith Higgins, Mayo's best defender, to shackle any one of the other Galway forwards.


Super second half

With our team strengthened with defensive substitutions, Mayo shook themselves from their slumber and reduced that seven point deficit to just four at the break. We were dealt a body blow in that first half with Trevor Mortimer having to leave play with a hamstring injury. He was a huge loss as he was really on his game from the off. Austin O Malley was getting no change at full forward from Finian Hanley. A more elusive type of player might have presented more of a challenge to the full back from the start. Billy Joe Padden displayed a huge appetite for action when he came on for Austin, kicking two excellent scores in the second half. His introduction saw Alan Dillon, who was excellent throughout, moved into the full forward line and we were now rampant at this stage.

The holes that were evident in our defence in the first half were now appearing in the Galway back line. Aidan Kilcoyne scored a good goal to put us a point up with fifteen minutes left and I thought that home advantage and the local vocal crowd would carry us home. However it wasn't to be as Galway kicked three scores to our one in the last eight minutes, and that was just about enough to see them win this championship final. Mayo were excellent in the second half and contributed in no small way to a most entertaining match against these old rivals. It was definitely one that got away from us and we were left to lament what might have been if we had started with the team that finished the match?

So where to now? Traditionally we haven't embraced the back door well on the occasions we have taken this route. A lot depends on the draw in a couple of week's time. A victory in our first game through the back door would see us in the very same position as Galway. If the players decide to adopt the right attitude I see no reason why we couldn't advance to a quarter final and take our chances from there.







 

[mannix]

JM was just as blind as JOM when the pressure was on.

[kevmy]

On the Dermot Geragthy thing. He pulled out of the panel himself around the time of the FBD. He asked Johnno where he was in the pecking order and Johnno said at the moment he was behind Liam O'Malley but that could change for Championship depending on form. Dermot's being on the go a good while now (he has played in 2 minor finals, a U21 final and 2 senior finals and lost them all) along with Sigerson and club. I'd say it was much more his decision than Johnno's. He hasn't had the best year for club but I'd still say he better than Boyle and co and is a natural corner back.

Hard to disagree with the analysis of either JM or Horan. I think most of what they said was said here already. I think pretty much everyone could see what was wrong (including Johnno who made the right changes) the last day, the question now turns to can the problems be rectified and can the positives be built on. With all the talk of problems we have almost forgotten the positives (Clarke in great form, a real midfield partnership, Harte doing great work on the 40 and the return to form of Dillon). If we had won this game by a point I think most of us here would expect us to drive on and improve the next day. There is no real reason why we shouldn't improve now even though we lost. We know the problems but we have time to work on them and hopefully they can be improved upon greatly.

[Barney]

If we had won this game by a point I think most of us here would expect us to drive on and improve the next day. There is no real reason why we shouldn't improve now even though we lost.

I don't think so - if we met any kind of half decent team we would have been exposed again in Croke Park in front of the whole country.

At least now expectations will be low, with the right attitude we can try and iron out problems. Hopefully we win and have a somewhat better chance in Croker.

[GaillimhIarthair]

And yeah Connelly looks to be next in line. Wouldn't be surprised if Holmes was in with him though 

He has managed Mayo to their last 2 national titles and I sometimes cannot understand why he gets so much stick from some Mayo supporters.  Personally, I dont think he should have taken the senior job when he did as he had just finished playing himself and would have been very close to a lot of the players still in the team/panel.  I understand that he was put under a lot of pressure by the CB to take it at the time and in any case he ended up just keeping the seat warm until the tanned one waltzed back into town.  Still, you would have to say that himself and Connelly are best placed to take over from JOM in the future and have earned the right to do so..................................

[moysider]

Below is a quote taken from McStay's article this week.


'But I often think Mayo teams need good coaches more than they need good managers.'

Myself and a friend had this debate last Fri. night. I was of the opinion that Sammon was one of the best coaches in the country and may well be a top manager too given he s only in the job. I was nearly ate. Organisation was the thing that counted in my friend's book and Johnno reigned supreme as an organiser.
DePaor outlines what every Galway manager in his time brought to the table. In Johnno case it was mostly organisation and discipline that seemed to make the difference. Johnno was into video analysis 20 years ago. Instead of mars bars and milk after training it was sandwiches with brown bread. When Richie Fahy ordered a plate of chips with an after match meal Johnno sent them back and decreed that no Galway footballer would be havin chips with his dinner.
I wonder what this approach brings to the table now[no pun intended]. Things change in ten years and what gave Johnno an edge then is pretty much standard procedure now at club level never mind county. Johnno must now be judged not on what he did ten years ago but in his later years in Galway when the Ulster revolution was in full swing and Kerry were flexing their muscles. His final years in Galway were not happy ones. His attempts at rebuilding the team he inherited failed as he is similarly finding the same task here difficult. Johnno has had most success inheriting a made team and getting more out of them but has no history of building/rebuilding a team.

What we need is more coaching input into the team and tactical awareness. McStay points out how Galway went looking for goals the last day where Mayo would have settled for points. Thats 2 years in a row Galway ve done that and it will be interesting whether they continue with this against other opposition. That kind of thing does nt just happen. Mayo goals are incidental. Our second v Sligo one of the few exceptions.

There is the perception out there now anyway that Mayo will give up goals so whoever we meet will come looking for them and not just the Galways and Kerrys of this world. We might nt be much worse than some other teams but until we get miserly at the back we ll be seen as easy meat. So for the rest of this Summer it is essential we play with an extra defender or sweeper- call him what you like. We have no choice. We used to do that 10/12 years ago though the system back then happened by accident and was never perfected.The only game we have nt leaked goal chances this year was v Kerry ironically, when we had Trevor covering back.

As for the Connelly and Holmes campaign. I would nt entertain it at all. First of all we re not in the market for a manager and if we are anytime soon it ll be a sad place we ll be in. Johnno must be given the opportunity to get us up and running seeing he was given the task in the first place. Secondly the next manager must be a coach first and foremost - like Mickey Moran was. Neither Holmes or Connelly fit into 'a top Coach' category. Connelly is a blood and guts presence whose biggest value to the team would be in the hour before throw in. While there is some place for someone like that in a management team the main man needs to be someone with a tactical brain and a coach - and I m not talking about some kid with badges either.

[Barney]

Somebody asked about the record of JOM in recent years. Since the AI win in 2001 for Galway this is how he has fared:

2002

Galway 0-12 Mayo 1-7
Galway 1-11 Sligo 0-11
Kerry 2-17 Galway 1-12

2003

Galway 0-12 Ros 0-8
Galway 1-14 Mayo 0-13
Galway 1-11 Donegal 0-14
Galway 0-11 Donegal 0-14

2004

Galway 8-14 London 0-8
Mayo 0-18 Galway 1-9
Galway 2-8 Louth 0-9
Galway 0-11 Tyrone 1-16

2007

Galway 2-10 Mayo 0-9
Mayo 1-19 Cavan 3-7
Mayo 1-6 Derry 2-13

2008

Mayo 3-11 Sligo 0-6
Mayo 1-14 Galway 2-12

While his achievements in Connacht with Galway remained consistent up until the last year the one thing missing is a win over a big name in over 7 years. I am sure he must have doubts himself at this stage. The next round of the Qualifiers is crucial for the credibility of the manager with his panel. He must turn around the situation, get the players motivated for the challegne and nab a big name.

[Lar Naparka]

Thanks, Barney, I appreciate your answer.
I feel our problem is that many players just don't mark up at all, either man to man or any other way. Heaney on Sunday was a classic case of this. He has been with Holmes, Maughan and now O'Mahony and none of them appear to have been able to curb his tendency to move forward and stay there.
The other half backs have a tendency to stand back from their men also; at least that was the case when the game started, and as a result of the slack marking, Galway once again got off to a flying start.
That's really elementary tactics and shouldn't take a genius to spot or correct.

One last point while I'm hot and bothered about marking, or rather not marking.
I think this quote is as apt as anything I have seen in a long, long time.

O'Mahony was, I think, 100% right to adopt a horses for courses approach. Problem was he picked the wrong horses for the wrong courses.

That's a classic one, R&GS. Unfortunately, it's also 100% spot on.