Mayo v Galway - Connacht Final 13/07/08 14:00 McHale Park, Castlebar

[Lar Naparka]

I can't say I enjoy having a go at O'Mahony. It's just that he seems to keep on planting his arse in front of me.
He keeps on leaving himself open.
Sure, he'd love to have taken the team after the game against Dublin; who wouldn't?
But, would the result against Kerry have been any different?
Mickey took a calculated gamble that failed to pay off; if it had been successful he would have been hailed as a tactical genius. He had hoped to impress on the side that he was in no way responsible for the 2004 debacle. Here was a new manager, a fresh team and another season. He wanted a fresh beginning.
Unfortunately, it didn't work for him so he got the bum's rush.
But what else could he have done? Would the Messiah have been able to go one better?
O'Mahony took over the team as Mickey left it. He did have a pretty satisfactory league run with this side, going all the way to the league final.
I'm quoting from Barney's last post:

On the positive side, he says that the management found it very reassuring to see 'the enthusiasm and the energy' from the players over the winter months.

"The one thing that would have pleased me over the last ten weeks — the thing that pleased me the most — is the resilience they have shown, the belief that would have been questioned in the past with Mayo teams. But, of the last four games, Mayo have won them by a single point in very tight finishes.

That resilience had been instilled into them by Mickey and no one else.
Remember the tight finishes against Galway, Laois and finally Dublin on the way to the final?
Furthermore, O'Mahony took the same side to the league final, surviving four very tight finishes along the way, as O'Mahony himself states. No signs of mental burnout form the 2006 final to be seen.
The story has been put about that the collapse in Salthill was somehow a residue of the trauma of the previous September. All credible evidence points elsewhere.
Mayo's preparations were a shambles and he had to make wholesale switches almost from the throw in.  The manager's mind was on the General Elections and it showed. After a nightmare start, Mayo fought back strongly but the damage had been done in the opening 20 minutes and try as they did, they couldn't overcome Galway's dream start. But there was little or no evidence of mental burnout to be seen and anyway Galway and not Kerry were providing the opposition, so why should there have been a collective mental breakdown?
In short, the Messiah deserves credit for much of what he has done since taken over but I'd be wary of any attempts to re-write history by him or any of his supporters.

[Tatler Jack]

Is O'Mahony still a lucky general?

With 5 mins to go yesterday I was beginning to think he was.  And maybe despite the one point loss he still is. He has got  media credit (that's what matters most to Mayo managers) for the changes and for the second half comeback. And the media consensus is that really this was a draw that Galway won!!!

However I am inclined to think that he was lucky yesterday and the comeback had little to do with him. The early Galway dominance had as much to do with Mayo's sluggish approach all over the field, their failure to win dirty ball and to put in convincing tackles. In such a situation the full back line will always be the fall guys.  Mayo's coming back into the game had as much to do with Harte and Dillon coming into the game more plus some good old fashioned heart blooded play from Nallen and Heaney. Not sure the rejigged full back line would have done much better if Galway outfield dominance had continued.
One of the effects of the drastic surgery taken by Johnno was as Moysider pointed out that Mayo had no fresh legs to bring on with 10 mins to go (Mortimer's injury did not help). Having fought hard to come back into the game I think Mayo just ran out of steam and without fresh legs (as Galway had) they gave away a couple of very handy points in the last 5 mins. Again questions must be asked of Johnno  and his selection and tactics – however instead he is credited with a great comeback effort.

Of course Mayo could have won it. In a close game like this little things make a difference and Mortimer's first half miss from an easy free was an example of this.  However at the end of the game I was asking myself – what has O'Mahony brought to this team that was not there under Maughan or M&M.  Could not see anything. The one thing I would have thought he would bring was intensity from the start – yet Mayo were very flat for the first 20 mins when the game was lost.
Not sure about the qualifiers. In terms of ability and players available Mayo are as good as half a dozen teams who could be there or thereabouts towards the end of August.  Whether they have the desire or confidence in the manager is another thing.

Padden, A Higgins, Gardiner and Kilcoyne will all have to start the next day. I thought Pat Harte had an absolutely outstanding match, he really is a class act.

Is this "class act" a Mayo saying.  I seem to remember a famous Mayo politician using it on the Late Late about his daughter. The match commentator yesterday (who I think is from Mayo) used it a few times and I have a good friend from Mayo who never fails to use it (usually when talking about some Mayo footballer). 

[rosnarun]

Mickey took a calculated gamble that failed to pay off; if it had been successful he would have been hailed as a tactical genius.

this is the type of anti logic that drives me nuts.  of course if he had done the right thing he would be considered a tactical genius but the fact is that he didn't. doesn't mean he should have been sacked but at least try and  keep you reasons  rational.

I wont be giving galway the seal of approval untill i see who they are playing. but rest assured i let you know in good time.

[Farrandeelin]

Is O'Mahony still a lucky general?

Well his luck ran out yesterday if he is. FFS, I still cannot understand the decision to leave Heaney 'on' Joyce. As well as that, Lar said that there should have been intensity from the start, a kind of get in among them, but none. I admit, I was happy when JOM took the job at the start, but he has done nothing new really. I hate to say it but we won't win an AI under O'Mahony. I hope I'm wrong though.

[FL/MAYO]

Is O'Mahony still a lucky general?

Well his luck ran out yesterday if he is. FFS, I still cannot understand the decision to leave Heaney 'on' Joyce. As well as that, Lar said that there should have been intensity from the start, a kind of get in among them, but none. I admit, I was happy when JOM took the job at the start, but he has done nothing new really. I hate to say it but we won't win an AI under O'Mahony. I hope I'm wrong though.

Lets face it maybe we just don't have the players, 3 different managers are still basically using the same team as Maughan had in 2004. There have been a few changes in personnel but 3 different management teams have failed to find the key players that might be lurking some where in the county. We cant keep blaming the managers for the players short comings.

[moysider]

what more do kilcoyne and gardiner have to do to make it on to peoples teams? they swing the game around completly  with higgins when they came on bring back our usual quick moving style of play which is my main gripe against austin when he is ther esome of the team seem to think he is a donahy or Cussen type figure and ignorantly blasting the ball into him when in fact Austin is only ever usefull when he gets easy ball on slow ground when he can seem devastating.
speaking of which even in the second half  the number of high balls sent in between conor and hanley was stupid in the extreme. almost designed to make him look bad.
but all in it was a much improve mayo performance and if the manager can put his Ego to one side we could have a right good summer yet. Better i suspect than galway for who if joyce is Marked would have have little enough to offer apart from meehan and even he need the type of quality ball only joyce was providiing. . but as i said before the match poor defending makes all stars of forwards and joyce has probably secured his already.

In Kilcoynes case it would help if he had nailed 2 very reasonable chances that he missed after his well taken goal. Those and Billy Joe s miss and conor s selfishness, or lack of vision near the end - not sure which is worse - would have won the day, Galways young lads nailed their chances. thats the difference. Until Likes of O Shea and  hopefully Walsh on the minor team come through we wont have a top forward to go with Dillon. And that is the rock we will perish on again.

As for Gardiner he did well coming on the last day but I prefer a halfback line of say Heaney Howley and O Malley. I was also disappointed Gardiner opted out of an opportunity yesterday to run and draw a challenge on Cullinane. It could have drawn a second yellow for the big man and that would be fair enough in my book because his clothesline on A Higgins was borderline at best and he s a sending off waiting to happen most games it seems. Gardiner should have taken one for the team but kicked a nothing ball down the wing.

[stephenite]

Would agree re Kilcoyne Moysider - couple of very kickable chances that he failed to convert, he wasn't the only one that missed easy chances but he appears to be the most consistent at it if you know what I mean. Every time he gets the ball it's 50/50 as to whether or not he can do the right thing with it and until that rate improves I'd be inclined to leave him on the bench, can't be trusted just yet.

[moysider]

Is O'Mahony still a lucky general?

Well his luck ran out yesterday if he is. FFS, I still cannot understand the decision to leave Heaney 'on' Joyce. As well as that, Lar said that there should have been intensity from the start, a kind of get in among them, but none. I admit, I was happy when JOM took the job at the start, but he has done nothing new really. I hate to say it but we won't win an AI under O'Mahony. I hope I'm wrong though.

Lets face it maybe we just don't have the players, 3 different managers are still basically using the same team as Maughan had in 2004. There have been a few changes in personnel but 3 different management teams have failed to find the key players that might be lurking some where in the county. We cant keep blaming the managers for the players short comings.

Sorry to differ. We do have the players. Maybe not to win Sam this year or next but players to do better than we ve done last two years. Clarke, Nallen, 2 Higgins, Heaney, Howley, Parsons, Mcgarrity, Harte, Dillon and 2 Mortimors are as good a player as other top counties have apart from Kerry. Sure many have their faults but so have players in every team their doubters - within their own county. A few others, 2 O Sé s ,McLoughlin, Cuniffe, maybe Cafferkey will be along soon. There was very little wrong with the team Maughan and Moran had. They met one of the great teams in AI finals and did nt have the tactical nous or game winners that Tyrone had in 05 to make a game of it. We were not as good as Tyrone 05 but we could have made a better fist of things. No reason to listen to the vultures in the press and beat ourselves up like we did after. We ve done our rivals [eg.Galway] a favour and blown the last 2 years as a result. Mayo people need to realise not to listen to likes of Eugene McGee, Spillane, Lyons etc and get on with it. Those do not have the better interest of our team at heart. For them Mayo misery is probably a more profitable story than a Mayo win. To hell with them. I feel we ve let outside influence, as well as  likes of the club delegate from a South Mayo club [ actually a Ros man]- caling players ladeens at a county board meeting, ferment the mood for Moran sacking and set the agenda last 2 years. At least 1 of those ladeens came on and settled us down the last day. Fair play to him for sticking around.

The problem has been that there was a purge mood after those defeats and both managers and players were treated abysmally. Managers were summarily dismissed and decent players like A. Higgins, Pat Kelly, Nallen, Dermot Geraghty  and MacDonald were scapegoated. Others like McGarrity were abused at club matches.

Maughan got us places. Moran got great respect and performances from the players until Kerry. However he was nt political enough to press the right buttons with the county board and I ve always felt he was nt in a position of strength as a result to make the hard calls with the players about the necessary and obvious tactics to take on Kerry in the final. I dont think they were ruthless enough with team selection and tactics.

There are no key players lurking around the county. Some we have underused like David Tiernan but nobody that would obviously improve matters and certainly no key players. Some craven journalists, even in the local press - like Rice in the mayo News - were describing Tom Parsons as a Johnno find. As they did with Hanley last year. Anybody in the county with a pulse would have seen those lads coming from u16 at latest. Why are we subjected to this shite?  Notice how Rice and Co. have kept onside as regards the Johnno loss - a certain key player in Crossmolina. How shitty is that.

Johnno has always struck me as a man who is impressed by what the gurus have to say. In a Year Til Sunday he held up the McGee article about 'fancy dans' to the Galway panel. Last week McGee hailed Johnno as the best manager in last 20 years. Today McGee questioned the integrity of the Mayo players - not the manager. Johnno played McHale full forward, with disastrous results on at least 1 occasion in his first incarnation with Mayo, because I believe Micko recommended it in media work. Last year it was Barry Moran a la Donaghy. This year it was  Austin on the point of a pyramid like Donegal often play- a Carney influence?  Another car crash. Good tactic, bad personnel. I wish he would make up his mind. Great coaches put their own stamp on a team.

Anyway we handed Galway this one. To be honest the way he s being going about it it looks like Johnno has stilll been managing Galway the last 2 years. Johnno must realise he has lads that will give their all for the jersey, but he needs to play them. He needs to recognise those that rescued his reputation the last day and nurture those for the rest of this Summer. Because after 20 minutes his preferred team was a rabble. It was nt Johnno who turned around another embarasement the last day but much maligned players that deserve better than chasing a situation that was the result of whim and poor judgement by management. If he s the man he can still rescue the situation and that is what he has to do.

[RedandGreenSniper]

I agree with what a lot of people are saying here - JOM is getting a bit more praise than he is due regarding 'quick' changes.

A lot of us on this board signalled problems in advance regarding the two defenders that were withdrawn. Its a pity for them because they both have something to offer, but just not in the positions they were placed. Now they may easily drift into the wilderness.

Also I've repeatedly asked why Aidan Higgins isn't starting on this team. He was given very little chance in the league but came on the last day and showed us he is definitely still made of the right stuff.

What we know from Sunday is that we've been unable to bring through any class defender yet since 2006. Barney pointed out that five of the six backs that started against Kerry in 06 finished on Sunday. Tom Cunniffe was the exception and he hasn't set the world alight yet. Trevor Howley of course would have played were it not for injury. He had a great league but we've yet to see him in championship. I think (and hope) he'll be up to it.

However for me the most frustrating thing about Sunday was that Heaney was left on Joyce for so long. We all said about how Heaney had this great record on Joyce but PJ turned the tables on Sunday and Mayo really needed someone to get tighter on him than Heaney was.

I had said myself that Conor and Andy Moran could be the match winners. Definitely wrong on that score. Conor looked a beaten ticket as soon as he kicked that 21 yard free wide and Andy continued to frustrate.
Austy was very poor and I think we've seen the end of him at no 14.
We had three excellent performers in the half-forward line.
Dillon and Harte led the fightback and Dillon thankfully looked like the player from two years ago, not the shadow of himself that he was last year.
For me though Trevor was on the way to the man of the match when he went off injured. If, as Moysider says, its merely a dead leg rather than a hamstring tear, we should be grateful because we need him badly for the qualifiers.
I'd be inclined to look at playing a team like this

Clarke
A Higgins D Heaney J Nallen
K Higgins T Howley T Cunniffe
McGarrity Parsons
B Padden P Harte T Mortimer
C Mortimer A Dillon A Moran

Billy Padden to drop back as an extra defender and Dillon to flirt between ff and the forty depending on the need.
I still wouldn't start Kilcoyne because he is too wasteful imo and Gardiner will be somewhat unlucky but I don't see who he can displace if Howley is back and fully fit

[Lar Naparka]

This is the type of anti logic that drives me nuts.  of course if he had done the right thing he would be considered a tactical genius but the fact is that he didn't. doesn't mean he should have been sacked but at least try and  keep you reasons  rational.

That's exactly what I've said; the blame for the fiasco was pinned on Mickey by the county boarded and he had to be sacrificed on the grounds of expediency. Sean Freeney, the secretary, had been expressing his disaffection in public about the way Mickey was spending money on the lads, booking into hotels for overnight stays for league games, which was the norm in Ulster.
He brought them to the final and the side imploded so Mickey had to go. I do believe the county board had opened negotiations with O'Mahony before this happened and anyway Mickey was disliked at board level because of the expenses he was incurring.
But he had taken them a hard road to the final where they showed great resilience all along the line.
Besides, in 96 and 2004 John Maughan saw his teams freezing on the day so Mickey was not unusual in that but he was scapegoated to make way for O'Mahony.
Now, I do give O'Mahony due credit for what he has done and he has developed a promising squad of young players but it appears than excuses are being spun to explain his less that impressive season last year.
He has said that he'd have loved to take charge after the Dublin match and the implication is that he'd have taken them the whole way. At best, that assertion is dubious. I doubt if anyone could have psyched the team up sufficiently to match a fine Kerry team .In any event, he inherited the most of Mickey's side and got them through a hard league campaign for a final meeting with Donegal, the form team at the time and short-listed favourites for the All Ireland..
There were no signs of mental exhaustion to be seen and, by O'Mahony's own admission, they showed great resilience, surviving four very close matches. So, where were the signs of emotional burnout during that campaign?
Things went totally pear-shaped against Galway in Salthill and the story was spun that the team just couldn't face another championship season. Not so. The state of preparations was awful and the team selected was unravelled at the start when Peter Ford simply moved his half forward closer in, trapping our half backs in the corners. By the time the Messiah had made the needed changes Galway were too far in front to be caught.
Hacks, supporters of O'Mahony in the local media mainly, put this down to most of the lads being unable to get stuck in to another championship campaign.
They neglect to remind us that Mayo did step up considerably in the second half and for long periods had Galway on the back foot; bloody little signs of post All Ireland stress were to be seen.
The impending General Election probably was taking up far more of his time and energy than what was going on in Pearse Park.
I am not on any sort of personal vendetta here and I try to give the man fair credit where it's due but I dislike signs of history being re-written in his favour.

[RedandGreenSniper]

I think people here are being very selective about what happened after the 2006 final in relation to the resignation/removal of Mickey Moran.

A number of things need to be remembered

Mickey Moran and John Morrison fell out after the 2006 final over the tactics they employed in the final (one of them decided to go for the 'lets try out shoot Kerry' method despite reservations of the other - I'm not sure which of them tbh)

As a result when Moran met with the county board to review his year he did so without Morrison and told the county board it would only be himself involved, that Morrison was finished.
Now they came as a team and it can be argued that each of them thrived off the opposing characterestics of the other and that without one of them, the management team was considerably weakened.
This may have perhaps suited an agenda in the county board that a lot of people alude to but its disingenuous to suggest that Moran was sacked for just losing one game. He wasn't maintained because Morrison was no longer with him.
If Moran and Morrison went back for that interview together and the county board still said no, well then you would be 100% correct to be cynical.
But that's not how it turned out.
I don't think its doing anyone any favours to be raking over these coals again

[GaillimhIarthair]

Anyway looking forward to the quarter-finals in 4 weeks time what Galway team should be taking the field that day. Something maybe like this?

Doherty
Fitzy
Hanley
Burke
Bradshaw
Blake
Deccie
Cullinane
Bergin (if fit)
N Joyce (if fit)
PJ
Bane
Clancy
Meehan
Breathnach???

Part of me wants to get Breathnach off the team asap but I think Sammon will persist with him. He will probably swap positions with Bane anyway and move out to the half-forward line. Question is then do you leave out Breathnach and replace him with Conroy or Coleman or do you leave him in the corner and have a straight swap with Armstrong? I think for now Conroy might be better off coming from the bench even though he's definitely a better footballer than Breathnach.

Plus if Bergin is fit do you play him? He may be fit enough to play but will have virtually no football behind him. Will be hard for him to be thrown straight into an All-Ireland quarter-final and difficult to see him lasting the whole game. Play him from the start until he's shagged out or keep him in reserve?

Bergin probably wont be fit enough to start and to be honest he will have played no serious football in 3 months so I think the best we can expect from him is possibly 15 - 20 mins at most.  He will be needed though and could yet have a vital role to play in the remainder of the championship, even from the bench.  Coleman to keep the spot fro now.  Other than that, the team above is fair enough.  Bradshaw has the makings of a very good attacking half back (my preferred position for him) and is well fit to kick scores when the opportunity arises.  Have to say I was delighted with Blakes contribution on Sunday, thought he put he a super 75mins for a lad who has played feck all football in recent months.  Breathnach seems to be Sammons lucky charm! Its hard to see him being dropped at this stage but at least we seem to have plenty of options in the forwards now as both Conroy and Armstrong got crucial scores when introduced the last day. Hopefully Nicky is not too badly injured, he is in poor enough form but the fecker has so much natural ability that Croke Park may be the stage for him to really kick start his season.  

The win on Sunday in Castlebar was a massive boost and the players should be full of confidence heading for the quarters where a victory is vital IMO to the continued development of this squad.  We havent won there since 2001  .  After that we are in bonus territory this year.  We have flaws, one major, but at this stage of the championship I have yet to see a performance from any team that suggests that they are nailed on to win SAM.  

[venter]

As for Gardiner he did well coming on the last day but I prefer a halfback line of say Heaney Howley and O Malley. I was also disappointed Gardiner opted out of an opportunity yesterday to run and draw a challenge on Cullinane. It could have drawn a second yellow for the big man and that would be fair enough in my book because his clothesline on A Higgins was borderline at best and he s a sending off waiting to happen most games it seems. Gardiner should have taken one for the team but kicked a nothing ball down the wing.

Peadar did take one for the team when he got nailed by Damien Burke after receiving a bit of a hospital pass on the standside wing. I'd be more concerned about the nervous lambs in the full back line in the first half "not taking one for the team".

Bringing Gardiner and Higgins in put down a marker to the Galway forwards. After the first 30 mins they were c**k sure of themselves (and rightly so) When the lads came in, things changed as they had to start chasing back, fighting harder for possession and all of a sudden things werent half as easy as they had been.

I thought Billy Joe did very well when he came on. He's a fairly big fella with plenty of strength. He will always make it difficult for the backs coming out with the ball, which has to be physically draining for them as well.

Dillon is a fine player and he is definitely our main man up front. Andy would want to start scoring some points. All the ball winning is not enough, if the scoring is been left to Mort and Dillon. If both are tied up, then we are ducked.

P Joyce was the match winner in the end. I was in the process of yapping about how he was a bit quieter in the second half and sure enough he pops up with a point. Maybe Heaney should have been switched off him at that stage.

Qualifier Team

Clarke
Heaney
Nallen
A Higgins
Gardiner
Cunniffe
K Higgins
Parsons
McGarrity
BJP
Harte
T Mort
Kilcoyne/moran
Dillon
Mort

Its a powerful half forward line with either of two being capable of sweeping up loose ball towards there own goal if required.

[myball22]

I agree mostly with that. I think Joyce brought that up being interviewed after the match that we haven't won there since
2001 so I think the lads will be focused on that.

I think Armstrong, Conroy and Lydon all did well when introduced the last day so maybe keeping them in reserve is the best option.

[Galforever]

Bergin probably wont be fit enough to start and to be honest he will have played no serious football in 3 months so I think the best we can expect from him is possibly 15 - 20 mins at most.  He will be needed though and could yet have a vital role to play in the remainder of the championship, even from the bench.  Coleman to keep the spot fro now.  Other than that, the team above is fair enough.  Bradshaw has the makings of a very good attacking half back (my preferred position for him) and is well fit to kick scores when the opportunity arises.  Have to say I was delighted with Blakes contribution on Sunday, thought he put he a super 75mins for a lad who has played feck all football in recent months.  Breathnach seems to be Sammons lucky charm! Its hard to see him being dropped at this stage but at least we seem to have plenty of options in the forwards now as both Conroy and Armstrong got crucial scores when introduced the last day. Hopefully Nicky is not too badly injured, he is in poor enough form but the fecker has so much natural ability that Croke Park may be the stage for him to really kick start his season. 

The win on Sunday in Castlebar was a massive boost and the players should be full of confidence heading for the quarters where a victory is vital IMO to the continued development of this squad.  We havent won there since 2001  .  After that we are in bonus territory this year.  We have flaws, one major, but at this stage of the championship I have yet to see a performance from any team that suggests that they are nailed on to win SAM.   

We have to play Bergin, There is no argument to be made here. We are just so weak at midfield that we need to play him. You have pointed out how Blake was able to come to the pace of the game so why cant Bergin? The next match isnt until August 10th. Thats plenty of time to get fully fit for Bergin.