Author Topic: Teachers get it handy!  (Read 153200 times)

lenny

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Re: Teachers get it handy!
« Reply #1815 on: May 01, 2019, 02:23:59 PM »

She still brings marking home, still has classes and subjects to teach and under the same pressure to get results but for lesser money than a civil servant doing 9-5

A civil sevrant will probably be have about twice the standard working hours in a year as a teacher and to which grades of civil servant do you refer to? Entry level civil servants?
I would severely doubt that.  Teachers get around 12 - 13 weeks off a year admittedly, but many would work a significant number of hours  during those weeks off.  Given that many teachers would generally working 55 hours or so in any given week, not sure where you are getting your figures from.

Teachers are not working 55 hours a week, I've lived with them, I know some. This is the type of myths perpetuated by them and their associates to garner sympathy but it's a complete untruth.
Some are
Working with children is very tiring.
Dealing with the parents can be a misery.
Down here we seem to have a new initiative for schools every month and generally all they do is cause hassle and take away from quality teaching time with the children.

Why do teachers think they are unique in having to deal with certain aspects of work which they find frustrating/counter productive? Teachers seem to benchmark workplace practices against their utopian view of what they feel should be an easy, well paid part time job with summers off every year. The sense of entitlement is off the chain.

You don't see many of them going for career changes and what does that tell you?

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/mar/31/four-in-10-new-teachers-quit-within-a-year

You don't think 40% is a lot? I have to say it sounds like there's an issue there whether it's to do with pay or conditions I wouldn't know. That kind of turnover is bad in any profession.

Milltown Row2

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Re: Teachers get it handy!
« Reply #1816 on: May 01, 2019, 02:40:49 PM »

She still brings marking home, still has classes and subjects to teach and under the same pressure to get results but for lesser money than a civil servant doing 9-5

A civil sevrant will probably be have about twice the standard working hours in a year as a teacher and to which grades of civil servant do you refer to? Entry level civil servants?
I would severely doubt that.  Teachers get around 12 - 13 weeks off a year admittedly, but many would work a significant number of hours  during those weeks off.  Given that many teachers would generally working 55 hours or so in any given week, not sure where you are getting your figures from.

Teachers are not working 55 hours a week, I've lived with them, I know some. This is the type of myths perpetuated by them and their associates to garner sympathy but it's a complete untruth.
Some are
Working with children is very tiring.
Dealing with the parents can be a misery.
Down here we seem to have a new initiative for schools every month and generally all they do is cause hassle and take away from quality teaching time with the children.

Why do teachers think they are unique in having to deal with certain aspects of work which they find frustrating/counter productive? Teachers seem to benchmark workplace practices against their utopian view of what they feel should be an easy, well paid part time job with summers off every year. The sense of entitlement is off the chain.

You don't see many of them going for career changes and what does that tell you?

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/mar/31/four-in-10-new-teachers-quit-within-a-year

You don't think 40% is a lot? I have to say it sounds like there's an issue there whether it's to do with pay or conditions I wouldn't know. That kind of turnover is bad in any profession.

They are obviously quiting and going back into teaching, rather than taking on new career's  ::)

according to the your man
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

manfromdelmonte

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Re: Teachers get it handy!
« Reply #1817 on: May 01, 2019, 03:16:24 PM »

She still brings marking home, still has classes and subjects to teach and under the same pressure to get results but for lesser money than a civil servant doing 9-5

A civil sevrant will probably be have about twice the standard working hours in a year as a teacher and to which grades of civil servant do you refer to? Entry level civil servants?
I would severely doubt that.  Teachers get around 12 - 13 weeks off a year admittedly, but many would work a significant number of hours  during those weeks off.  Given that many teachers would generally working 55 hours or so in any given week, not sure where you are getting your figures from.

Teachers are not working 55 hours a week, I've lived with them, I know some. This is the type of myths perpetuated by them and their associates to garner sympathy but it's a complete untruth.
Some are
Working with children is very tiring.
Dealing with the parents can be a misery.
Down here we seem to have a new initiative for schools every month and generally all they do is cause hassle and take away from quality teaching time with the children.

Why do teachers think they are unique in having to deal with certain aspects of work which they find frustrating/counter productive? Teachers seem to benchmark workplace practices against their utopian view of what they feel should be an easy, well paid part time job with summers off every year. The sense of entitlement is off the chain.

You don't see many of them going for career changes and what does that tell you?

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/mar/31/four-in-10-new-teachers-quit-within-a-year

You don't think 40% is a lot? I have to say it sounds like there's an issue there whether it's to do with pay or conditions I wouldn't know. That kind of turnover is bad in any profession.
Discipline is a huge issue.
Parents rule the roost.

HiMucker

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Re: Teachers get it handy!
« Reply #1818 on: May 01, 2019, 03:24:08 PM »

She still brings marking home, still has classes and subjects to teach and under the same pressure to get results but for lesser money than a civil servant doing 9-5

A civil sevrant will probably be have about twice the standard working hours in a year as a teacher and to which grades of civil servant do you refer to? Entry level civil servants?
I would severely doubt that.  Teachers get around 12 - 13 weeks off a year admittedly, but many would work a significant number of hours  during those weeks off.  Given that many teachers would generally working 55 hours or so in any given week, not sure where you are getting your figures from.

Teachers are not working 55 hours a week, I've lived with them, I know some. This is the type of myths perpetuated by them and their associates to garner sympathy but it's a complete untruth.
Some are
Working with children is very tiring.
Dealing with the parents can be a misery.
Down here we seem to have a new initiative for schools every month and generally all they do is cause hassle and take away from quality teaching time with the children.

Why do teachers think they are unique in having to deal with certain aspects of work which they find frustrating/counter productive? Teachers seem to benchmark workplace practices against their utopian view of what they feel should be an easy, well paid part time job with summers off every year. The sense of entitlement is off the chain.

You don't see many of them going for career changes and what does that tell you?

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/mar/31/four-in-10-new-teachers-quit-within-a-year

You don't think 40% is a lot? I have to say it sounds like there's an issue there whether it's to do with pay or conditions I wouldn't know. That kind of turnover is bad in any profession.

They are obviously quiting and going back into teaching, rather than taking on new career's  ::)

according to the your man
It says new teachers. I would imagine its because they cant get a permanent full time roll.

RadioGAAGAA

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Re: Teachers get it handy!
« Reply #1819 on: May 01, 2019, 03:33:14 PM »
Discipline is a huge issue.
Parents rule the roost.

Indeed.

Interestingly, high level application of the scientific method would indicate since removal of corporal punishment in schools, behaviour has significantly worsened; therefore the logical thing to do would be the reintroduction of corporal punishment.


Would a reintroduction see improved behaviour? I'd expect it very much would. Not so much because of the application of physical punishment, but simply by many of would be offenders being aware that the option exists.

Right now, many kids can get away with murder as they know the teachers' hands are proverbially tied. Fear of a good dig would keep an awful lot of them in line.
i usse an speelchekor

RadioGAAGAA

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Re: Teachers get it handy!
« Reply #1820 on: May 01, 2019, 03:34:02 PM »
Oh and Angelo cannot count or is on drugs.

For many civil servants, two times zero is still zero.  8)
i usse an speelchekor

Owen Brannigan

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Re: Teachers get it handy!
« Reply #1821 on: May 01, 2019, 03:42:49 PM »
Teachers' pay is an absolute joke and they pay rise they're being offered is useless. I'm a Civil Servant and earn over £10K more than my wife who's a teacher. I'd say half the staff in Tesco get paid more

Really! NICS pay must be great.

Here are the teacher pay scales for teachers who have not been awarded a promotion. Any teacher can progress up through this scale over 9 years, just look at the annual increments.




Currently Tesco workers are paid £7.62 an hour, which will rise to £8.42 an hour by November 2018. The pay rise will put Tesco workers' pay above the £7.90 level that the National Living Wage is expected to reach by 2018. (23 Jun 2017)

I think teachers need to realise how fortunate they really are compared to the average in N.Ireland. In 2017, average weekly wages in Northern Ireland was £501, up 1.5 per cent from £494 in 2016. Annual salaries in the north, at £25,999, are still lower than the UK average of £28,758.

It takes 12 years to get to top of pay scale
M1 to M6   takes 6 years
UPS 1 TO 3  takes 6 years  - two years per point !

Paid M1 on starting
Paid M2 after 1 year
Paid M3 after 2 years
Paid M4 after 3 years
Paid M5 after 4 years
Paid M6 after 5 years
Paid UPS1 after 6 years
Paid UPS1 after 7 years
Paid UPS2 after 8 years
Paid UPS2 after 9 years
Paid UPS3 after 10 years

12 years, are you a teacher?

Owen Brannigan

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Re: Teachers get it handy!
« Reply #1822 on: May 01, 2019, 03:46:36 PM »

So you are on 38 odd grand at 31 years of age if you are lucky enough to get a full time job when you come out of college (which most arenít by the way). What after that ? Prospects of any decent pay rises are grim and your career is only starting off...

Why would you get any more pay rises other than for inflation?

What are you doing as a teacher that would entitle you to life long pay increases other than to take account of inflation?

The main problem is that the existing increments are too much, they should be decreased and put across a longer period with performance related pay like most other jobs.

Owen Brannigan

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Re: Teachers get it handy!
« Reply #1823 on: May 01, 2019, 03:48:43 PM »

My wife has completely discouraged our kids from being teachers, and this from a daughter of a teacher. Why has it become so stressful? I'd a client in the other day an ex teacher and he gave me some stat (whether its true or not) but, the life expectancy of a teacher who stops working at retirement age is on average 4 years, a teacher that stops just 5 years earlier is 17 years!

I worked with classes of 15/16, far easier managed and no stress, but I took that career change you say never happens and havent looked back ;)

So, not much time left then, better get my affairs in order before time runs out for me.

Owen Brannigan

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Re: Teachers get it handy!
« Reply #1824 on: May 01, 2019, 03:49:50 PM »
Teachers are paid far too much as it is. Most teaching is just putting on youtube videos.

Take the stress out of it for yourself and email them the links to those videos, they can watch them on their phones when they have time.

screenexile

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Re: Teachers get it handy!
« Reply #1825 on: May 01, 2019, 03:52:09 PM »
Did a PGCE myself over in England and came home but given the saturated teaching market here and the fact I wasn't great with disciplining kids (head real problems at a school in England with 14-16 year old classes) I decided to take a private sector job that paid more.

Secondary teaching was never for me looking back I'm pretty sure I'd have made a good job of Primary teaching but again there are so many teachers around at the minute the pay you get is not worth the hassle when there are so many more options in the private sector.

Companies will value someone who has a University degree and a PGCE as it shows you have an intellect that is willing to learn and in most cases you can deal with people which is quite a big problem for a lot of private sector companies. In my experience job specific qualifications aren't particularly required for a lot of roles and even if you start at entry level and show you're good enough you can get up through the ranks relatively quickly!!

Owen Brannigan

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Re: Teachers get it handy!
« Reply #1826 on: May 01, 2019, 03:54:13 PM »

Discipline is a huge issue.
Parents rule the roost
.

Discipline is indeed a huge issue because parents no longer rule the roost, they have abdicated responsibility for parenting and children largely call the shots in the majority of houses. Respect for authority, grading or otherwise is lost at an early age and can never be recovered.

Owen Brannigan

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Re: Teachers get it handy!
« Reply #1827 on: May 01, 2019, 04:01:44 PM »
If I was given 29 holidays and the stat days, guaranteed to work 9-5 only and allowed to use those holidays whenever I want them I would take that over getting the summer off. And workload changes from school to school. Iíve moved schools and Iím doing half the work with half the issues and getting paid the same as my old colleagues.

I donít think we get paid enough considering we are doing a pretty important job. I was talking to a fella who owns an IT firm and his new fellas out of Uni are earning 60k by the time theyíre getting to 26. Most principals donít get that.

Simple answer, if you're good enough and have the skills, get out of teaching and into one of these supposedly high paid jobs.  You're not locked in by contract but you are because of teaching becomes a fur lined rat trap, the money is good, working conditions are very good compared to the majority of lower paid jobs and the holidays are great.

Where else could you get paid £39497 for 195 days work or 1265 hours per year as an ordinary classroom teacher?

I think it works out at just over £31 per hour or £203 per day worked.

Hard to beat!


Fionntamhnach

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Re: Teachers get it handy!
« Reply #1828 on: May 01, 2019, 04:03:04 PM »
Discipline is a huge issue.
Parents rule the roost.

Indeed.

Interestingly, high level application of the scientific method would indicate since removal of corporal punishment in schools, behaviour has significantly worsened; therefore the logical thing to do would be the reintroduction of corporal punishment.


Would a reintroduction see improved behaviour? I'd expect it very much would. Not so much because of the application of physical punishment, but simply by many of would be offenders being aware that the option exists.

Right now, many kids can get away with murder as they know the teachers' hands are proverbially tied. Fear of a good dig would keep an awful lot of them in line.
In my experience, it isn't so much that the behaviour in schools from the students is worse across the board, but that the worst offenders are worse than what the worst were one or two generations ago. The vast majority of students are well behaved today just like their peers were in the past, but teachers and other staff in schools are more vulnerable to conniving shits and their parents to be blackmailed or targeted with little or no evidence. Of course, on the flip side decades ago there were some right sociopathic monsters in schools whom frankly straight out ruined the lives of many children in their pastoral care. Trying to find the right balance is the key, in some schools they are fortunate to have few problems, but in many others it's unachievable.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 04:05:08 PM by Fionntamhnach »
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trailer

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Re: Teachers get it handy!
« Reply #1829 on: May 01, 2019, 04:16:53 PM »
What's the teaching pension worth?