DERRY V FERMANAGH Healy Park Sat 21st June Throw in: 6pm

[DUBSFORSAM1]

How are we not getting better? Guys like Vaughan, Quinn, Brogan, Connolly, Fennell etc all coming through providing a lot more options.....

Problems that have plagued them -
Mouthing/Indiscipline etc - Evidence from Louth game is that this has disappeared.
Lack of options - Conolly, Fennell, Quinn, McMenamon, Andrews, Flynn all coming through

Meath knocked out Tyrone last year, Dublin knocked out Derry etc so Leinster teams are beating Ulster teams

At least there are more teams in leinster winning Leinster title or getting to final than in Ulster...

[glenullinabu]

I would suggest that the Derry team graced by Tohill had its share of underachieving egotists also.

Possibly moreso than the current team.

maybe they had something to be big headed about

[Bogball XV]

How are we not getting better? Guys like Vaughan, Quinn, Brogan, Connolly, Fennell etc all coming through providing a lot more options.....

Problems that have plagued them -
Mouthing/Indiscipline etc - Evidence from Louth game is that this has disappeared.
Lack of options - Conolly, Fennell, Quinn, McMenamon, Andrews, Flynn all coming through

Meath knocked out Tyrone last year, Dublin knocked out Derry etc so Leinster teams are beating Ulster teams

At least there are more teams in leinster winning Leinster title or getting to final than in Ulster...

We'll see how much of the 'mouthing/indiscipline' has disappeared when they play Westmeath.  Speaking of which, as I'm sure you know, you'll get exactly the same that Derry got against Fermanagh and gave to Tyrone 2 years ago, maybe you'll agree that it's time for a sin bin after that? 
Apparently this decade, only Antrim haven't reached an ulster final.

[DUBSFORSAM1]

Bogball - Always agreed with the sinbin myself and booking players for blatantly grabbing players back or 3rd man tackles etc

[Bogball XV]

Bogball - Always agreed with the sinbin myself and booking players for blatantly grabbing players back or 3rd man tackles etc

Seriously, it has to be reconsidered, doesn't have to be every yellow card, but as you point out there is a different class of yellow card that could be covered by sin binning, an official time-keeper would be a good idea too.

[mc_grens]

How are we not getting better? Guys like Vaughan, Quinn, Brogan, Connolly, Fennell etc all coming through providing a lot more options.....

Problems that have plagued them -
Mouthing/Indiscipline etc - Evidence from Louth game is that this has disappeared.
Lack of options - Conolly, Fennell, Quinn, McMenamon, Andrews, Flynn all coming through

Meath knocked out Tyrone last year, Dublin knocked out Derry etc so Leinster teams are beating Ulster teams

At least there are more teams in leinster winning Leinster title or getting to final than in Ulster...

Vaughn and Quinn have been around for 2 years now- at least.

Indiscipline, both on the team, and in the back room was in evidence during the league, there was no real pressure against Louth, and no reason for dodgy temperaments to flair (also a few of the dodgy temperaments e.g. Whelan were suspended for that game).

Lack of options, whatever, I wasnt thinking of that...

Lack of on field leadership in tight situations- no proven step forward.

Discomfort in the full back line due to half backs eagerness to go forward, and problem position at full back exposed again and again by top class forwards deep in the championship- no proven step forward.

Management's poor decision making vis a vis substitutions and tactical changes in key times during big games- no proven step forward.

Yes, Meath beat Tyrone, but a shadow of former tyrone teams, and probably not as good a side as the one Down beat. Yes Dublin beat Derry, but an inexperienced Derry who shit the nest and let them off the hook.

BUT, the facts remain, since Dublin last won the All Ireland in 95, only Meath in Leinster have won one, versus Armagh and Tyrone.

Meanwhile 2 Leinster teams have reached AI Semi's since the introduction of the back door, meaning more than one team from each province can make it there. 5 different Ulster teams have done the same by my reckoning.

[THEREALGRASSROOTS]

Away from the Dubs for a minute (who gives a fook about the Dubs?), this is the view of the match from the local paper in Derry (taken from a different source though, f**ked if I'm retyping it all!), I wouldn't be a wile fan of the writer (if you read previous posts, you should be able to guess  who it is  ) but I think this sums it up pretty well...

Ps it's a bit long, you don't need to read all the fluffy shit.  Actually, probably best not to read most of it....

You'd think us Derry folk would be immune to heartbreak by now.  Eight times in as many years, the Oak Leaf fans have stepped back into their cars and headed back down the road with the same thoughts running through their heads, the same tears in their eyes, the same insatiable hunger in their bellies.
But, even after all that time, it still hurts the same.  The same questions are still asked, year on year.  From Casement, from Clones, from Croker, it doesn't matter. The drive home after a semi-final defeat has become an annual routine.

It will have stung the players and fans alike on Sunday night, but the poison will truly be swallowed when Fermanagh's stars rip out on to the Clones pitch on Ulster final day, seeking their first ever provincial crown.

It's a day that the Ernesiders deserve.  Ten years without an Ulster title feels like a long, long time in Derry.  Imagine how a lifetime of that feels in places like Tempo, Roslea, Derrylin and Teemore.  Only the coldest, bitterest of hearts could have begrudged Fermanagh their win amid the joyous scenes of those green-clad souls who stormed on to the pitch to rejoice with their heroes at the final whistle. 

And, to a man, there were far more heroes in green than there were in red and white.  1982 is the last time they were involved at the climax of the nation's most competitive provincial championship.  The picture of the '82 side hangs proudly on the wall in Brewster Park.  But they won nothing.

There is of course no guarantee that the class of '08 will win anything either.  But Armagh or Down better be well prepared.  Because Fermanagh will be.  They were simply much better than Derry on Saturday evening.  They had 15 men on the one wavelength.  As soon as they lost possession, 13 men funnelled back behind the ball.  They played two, sometimes three, sweepers in front of the Bradley brothers.  They won almost every single ball at midfield.  Even when they went down to 14 men after Peter Sherry was sent off for a second yellow card, they still looked as though they had three men spare.

Derry, in comparison, looked devoid of a way to demolish the green wall in front of the Fermanagh goal.  It was frustrating to watch as countless times, Mark Lynch or Conleith Gilligan picked the ball up ten yards inside their own half.  When they looked up, all they saw was green.  Green grass, green shirts, and nowhere to go.  Against the wind in the second half, the Derry half-forwards were withdrawn so far that when they got the ball, they had two options – run into a cul de sac with it, or try to play an impossible 60-yard pass over the heads of six Fermanagh defenders into the arms of Paddy or Eoin Bradley.

It was only when the younger of the Glenullin men got the ball in his hands that Derry really threatened, and that wasn't nearly often enough.  Raw pace complimented by brute strength.  Peter Sherry was left clutching thin air, staring at the number 15 on the back of Eoin's jersey as he ripped viciously through to drill home a simply brilliant goal after 12 minutes.

Things were rosy beneath the overcast skies at that stage.  After Ryan Keenan had opened the scoring for Fermanagh from a free, Michael McIver found rare space 25 yards out to equalise before Bradley junior cut in and swung over off his left foot from a similar distance.

Then came his goal, which relied too on a lovely pass played in front of him by blood sub Barry McGoldrick.  The rest was all Bradley's own work.

To say that the defining moment came five minutes later, just after Paddy Bradley had swung over his first of the darkening evening, wouldn't be much of an overstatement.  Maybe a wee bit, but not much.

The penalty award itself looked a bit suspect as Niall McCusker was tackled in the square by Martin McGrath, whose shoulder charge earned him a yellow card (one of too many handed out by the petty Syl Doyle, who didn't do much in the way of improving the game).

But aren't the undeserved ones always missed?  Those with long memories will have pictured Ronan Gallagher pawing away Paddy Bradley's penalty in a McKenna Cup game at the start of the season.  This time he faced Conleith Gilligan.  This time the penalty went the other way, high towards the 'keeper's right, but Gallagher's strong right arm turned it brilliantly away for a 45' which the Shamrocks man did well to compose himself for before stroking it casually over.

And so began the fightback.  A moment that might have killed the game as a contest became a great source of inspiration for the Ernemen.

Their domination at midfield started to tell.  There was one single clean catch made by a Derry player from a kickout down the middle (Gerard O'Kane and Michael McIver grabbed one each on the wings), with McGrath and Murphy just beating everything down to their alert half-forward line, who snapped up break after break after break.

Roving wing backs Tommy McElroy and Damien Kelly grabbed much needed points before Derry pushed the self-destruct button, with Francis McEldowney surrendering possession and Kevin McCloy lifting it off the ground to give Ryan Keenan a simple free that made the score 1-04 to 0-05.

Paddy Bradley swung it back Derry's way with an absolutely brilliant score from the right wing off his right boot, but the half-time margin was reduced to two thanks to another Keenan free after he, McCloy and McEldowney had all been booked.
For the first 20 minutes of the second half, Derry couldn't get the ball out of their own half.  They put 13 men behind the ball, just as Fermanagh had done, except the runners weren't there and they were losing the ball by the time they got to halfway, bottled up in a slightly more advanced sea of green.

But it took the dramatic introduction of All-Star full-back Barry Owens to turn the game.  Not at full-back, but at full-forward he came in for James Sherry and within thirty seconds, he had the same fans who had roared him back on to the field after his lengthy absence in raptures.  A dropping ball came too close to Gillis, who had earlier made a fantastic save from Eamon Maguire, to allow the 'keeper a running jump at it and Owens slipped away from McCloy to take advantage of the 'keeper's standing start by rising to punch into the roof of the net with his first touch.

The next score told its own story.  A 50-50 ball.  Marty McGrath simply wanted it more.  He grabbed it, strode down the right wing and curled over the equaliser.  1-08 to 1-06.  After Donegal, this was another real test of character.  Only this was a failed test.
Eamon Maguire (wearing his third clean jersey of the day, each with a different number) extended the Fermanagh lead to a goal and you could see it slipping away from Derry.  Again.

Ryan Keenan scored from the right wing after Conleith Gilligan surrendered possession deep in his own territory, but the Ballinderry man did slot over a free to keep his side in contention as the last five minutes rolled around.

Maguire opened the four point lead again before Raymond Wilkinson, brought in for Joe Diver, pointed twice to set up a nail-biting finale.

Derry smothered the Fermanagh attempts to walk the ball out of defence, winning a free on the wing which Paddy Bradley was told would be the last kick.  He dropped it in and, with arms and legs flailing and the ball three yards from the packed net, Syl Doyle's whistle sparked chaotic Fermanagh celebrations that wouldn't have looked out of place at Croke Park on All-Ireland final day.
But it's Ulster final day they'll be worried about.  They, with Armagh or Down, will be the ones with butterflies in the stomachs on July 13.  They could face the long disappointed drive home again.  Or they could finally, after more than a century, lift the Anglo Celt Cup and write their names into the history books.

But whatever happens, at least they won't be watching it on TV and waiting to find out where the Qualifiers will take them.  Again.

DERRY: Barry Gillis; Kevin McGuckin, Kevin McCloy, Francis McEldowney; Gerard O'Kane, Niall McCusker, Michael McIver (0-01); James Conway, Joe Diver; Mark Lynch, Paul Murphy, Enda Muldoon; Conleith Gilligan (0-02, 1f, 1 45'), Paddy Bradley (0-03, 1f), Eoin Bradley (1-01)
SUBS USED: Barry McGoldrick for E Muldoon (Blood sub, 7, reversed 22), Michael McGoldrick for F McEldowney (HT), Patsy Bradley for P Murphy (45), Paul Cartin for M McIver (58), Colin Devlin for M Lynch (63), Raymond Wilkinson (0-02) for Joe Diver (68)

FERMANAGH: Ronan Gallagher; Shane Goan, Shane McDermott, Peter Sherry; Damien Kelly (0-01), Ryan McCluskey, Tommy McElroy (0-01); Martin McGrath (0-01), Mark Murphy; Ciaran McElroy, James Sherry, Ryan Keenan (0-04, 3f); Eamon Maguire (0-02), Liam McBarron (0-01), Mark Little (0-01)
SUBS USED: Shane McCabe for E Maguire (Blood sub, 4, reversed 20), Shane McCabe for E Maguire (Blood sub, 35, reversed HT), Shane McCabe for L McBarron (41), Barry Owens for J Sherry (53), Shane Lyons for T McElroy (71)

REFEREE: Syl Doyle (Wexford)

[the green man]

Yes but that was Armagh at their best ever and Tyrone at their best ever who we came very close to - Losing by 1 point to Armagh in 02 and but for Cluxton in 03 we would have won and we drew with Tyrone also......Both these teams would comfortably beat the rest of the Ulster teams at the moment...

Ach, should've, would've, could've. The last words of a fool, according to the song

[the green man]

Away from the Dubs for a minute (who gives a fook about the Dubs?), this is the view of the match from the local paper in Derry (taken from a different source though, f**ked if I'm retyping it all!)

Did you leave anything out?

[THEREALGRASSROOTS]

well unless the copy n paste button didn't work, i woudn't think so!