Mayo 3-11 Sligo 0-7 Champions Dethroned

[moysider]

I'd like to be clear on one thing from the outset:
I always trusted John O'Mahony and thought from the outset that he was our best prospect to land Sam someday.  I was also impressed by the calibre of his assistants and the fact that Martin Carney was on hand to help out.
I think he has made progress in the development of good young players and in getting older hands to mix in with the the newcomers. He certainly appears to be hard at work.
However, I have serious concerns now about his judgement.
Salthill last year saw us cleaned out tactically. Peter Ford moved his half forwards up into the corners and threw our defence into total disarray. Our lads didn't know their arses from their elbows and by the time O'Mahony reacted, Galway were out of sight.
Had he a plan B? Had he even a bloody plan A?
Okay, he was only starting off and needed another year to get a handle on things. Now we are almost 13 months on and I don't see any progress whatsoever. Sure, there are good players about and he does deserve recognition for this, but are we any nearer a settled side?
I fully accept that he can only work with what he has and it is proving hard to settle on players for set positions but O'Mahony is 18 months into his present term and there is no sign of a settled side emerging. Mickey and Beefer left with us all thinking that we only needed a 'Spine' for the side. Sligo will show no sympathy for Johnno's selection predicaments.
Today we probably have a lot of better players than we had back then but are we any closer to having a settled side?
No matter what side takes the field against Sligo will it be more used to playing together as a unit than the team that took the field in Salthill last May?
It is relatively easy to sit back and criticise but I think my worries are real ones.
Does any one agree?

What assistants exactly Lar and why is Martin Carney such a bonus?

[IolarCoisCuain]

Can I hop a ball here fellas?

In Mayo we've been concerned about the fullback line since the 2004 final. Everyone that's been back there has been found fault with. So I was wondering who we'd pick for jersies 2, 3 and 4 if we had the choice of every footballer in the country, and then apply the same criteria to them as we apply to our own fellas. It'll be interesting to find the man without sin.

[rosnarun]

ye mustn't have watched any leagues to exclude andy moran from the certainties lineup. he has mature into probably mayo's best player.also its pointless to compare mayo's state to kerry who are going for 3 in a row or 4 out og 5 which is even more impressive. but it can also mean that the team is getting stale. like the great team of the 80's by staying too long they seriously harmed kerry footall for about 10 years. be happy we have so many top pedigree footaller who when we get all the ingredint right will come very good

[rosnarun]

best full back in te country
dara o'se no question

[AZOffaly]

Marc O'Sé you mean?

[moysider]

Can I hop a ball here fellas?

In Mayo we've been concerned about the fullback line since the 2004 final. Everyone that's been back there has been found fault with. So I was wondering who we'd pick for jersies 2, 3 and 4 if we had the choice of every footballer in the country, and then apply the same criteria to them as we apply to our own fellas. It'll be interesting to find the man without sin.

Just off the top of my head I d  be happy with a fb line of Marc O Sé, Barry Owens and Joe Higgins. I m sure they would do a good job.

[Lar Naparka]

What assistants exactly Lar and why is Martin Carney such a bonus?

Well, I do have to be seen to be fair-minded, don’t  I?
Kieran Gallagher and Tommy Lyons are his two selectors and he did say he was delighted to obtain their services. (That’s from the archives of the Western back in December 2006.)
Ditto about Martin Carney:
“Martin Carney will also be a part of the wider management where he will be in charge of video and statistical analysis.”
That’s what the Messiah said anyway and I won’t argue with him. Have you seen Martin on the sidelines at games with his cute little laptop and him shouting stats or something to Johnno? For all I know, he could be askin’ the hoor if he wants vinegar on his fish and chips on the way home but it does look impressive all the same.
If that’s the backup team the man wants around him then so be it; but how the four of them couldn’t foresee the controversy that was going to erupt when McDonald was not in the announced panel is a mystery to me.

[moysider]

Ok Lar. I m aware of Johnnos's endorsements of his selectors and his statsman at the time of their appointment - if thats the correct term. I was more interested in your high estimation of same. You said that you were ' impressed by their calibre'  Why were you impressed? What were they bringing to the table that was impressive?  Just interested , thats all.   

[stephenite]

If I may?

Kieran Gallagher was kept on because he offered some continuity with the old regime and is apparently a very useful football brain to have around, I don't know the man but have heard great reports from those who have worked with him up close. Tommy Lyons is an All Ireland winning Club manager that has history with O'Mahony, a fantastic motivator of players.

[Lar Naparka]

Ok Lar. I m aware of Johnnos's endorsements of his selectors and his statsman at the time of their appointment - if thats the correct term. I was more interested in your high estimation of same. You said that you were ' impressed by their calibre'  Why were you impressed? What were they bringing to the table that was impressive?  Just interested , thats all.   

I would agree fully with Stephenite’s assessment of the two selectors. Also, Martin Carney has had a distinguished playing career with two counties, was widely regarded as a successful under-age manager and is now a respected pundit and analyst.
O’Mahony himself has an undoubted pedigree as an intercounty manager.
I thought when they were appointed that they were probably the strongest management set up we could reasonably expect to get. I still genuinely feel we are unlikely to come up with better than those four men – going by their CVs.
However, given their collective experience and reputations I am a bit concerned at some of what has been happening lately and maybe I’ve been a little sarcastic in my earlier posts.
I assume they do talk together and that O’Mahony does take heed of his colleagues’ opinions. So how then did they not foresee the consequences of omitting Mac from the panel in the way that it was done? O’Mahony has the right to determine who gets included on the panel but surely he knew that Mac’s omission was going to cause widespread comment and speculation. I would have thought that the management would have assumed nothing and got a definitive yes or no from McDonald. Either that or informed him he was no longer in their plans.
O’Mahony said in the wake of the Salthill fiasco that he couldn’t understand how dead and distracted the entire team were on that day. (Or words to that effect.)
Cripes! He and his buddies were in charge and they showed less animation and were even slower to react than the lads on the field!
Thirteen months on and the management is no nearer to finding a settled formation for the side. To my way of thinking, if you don’t have natural candidates for any specialist position you need to go about adapting someone to fill the post and give him all the time you can to grow into the position.
Of course I do honestly wish all concerned the very best and hope things come right on the day. But if we do get by Sligo in all probability Galway will be next in line and I really don’t see Liam Sammon losing much sleep at the prospect.
Given the four men’s credentials, I’d expect more evidence of progress being made.

[Barney]

Lar, I don't really think omitting McDonald from the panel is that major an issue. He would no doubt have been an addition but when all is said and done it is two years since he played for Mayo. Now the whole issue was dealt with shabbily but I think more people are concerned about the apparent lack of any coherent plan over the past two years -

1. The defence is still a shambles. If the players are not there where are the efforts to change tactics? Flood the back-line? Sweeper in front of the full-back line? All worth trying on a consistent basis.

2. The experiments that were not working in the league in 07 were persevered with throughout that campaign and shown up in Salthill. Yes, we got to the final that year but the faults were clear to be seen and only for some great comebacks we could have taken serious thrashing especially against Cork. It was either a case of the manager being mistaken in his belief that the players were adaptable enough and good enough to implement his plan or the eye being off the ball.

3. And then things that seemed to work - Barry Moran at FF showed promise - were abandoned.

So it is hard to be confident, but we are hopeful of being pleasantly suprised.

I agree that we are unlikely to have a better quarter involved in a management team but when you look at JOM's record since the 2001 AI both with Galway and Mayo it has been one of abject failure. Has he lost his touch? Did he succeed in Galway because he had the players? Or was he just dealing with two groups of burnt out experienced players?

I know Seanie certainly feels that he is overrated as a manager. I don't think so - u21 success with Mayo, Connacht success with Leitrim, and the All Irelands with Galway at senior and u21 show more than a lucky general. But watching the gaffer on the sideline in the green and red he is less animated than he used to be, and not as active in controlling the troops. Does he have the same passion any more?

[RedandGreenSniper]

I know Seanie certainly feels that he is overrated as a manager. I don't think so - u21 success with Mayo, Connacht success with Leitrim, and the All Irelands with Galway at senior and u21 show more than a lucky general. But watching the gaffer on the sideline in the green and red he is less animated than he used to be, and not as active in controlling the troops. Does he have the same passion any more?

I think this is the question. He has been managing at a high level for a long time now and his reluctance to take the Mayo job first time around in 2005 was revealing. I just feel he may have taken the job because of the constant urgings.
But perhaps it is too early to be making such assessments. How we do come close of play for the 2008 season is what will really matter.

I think the backroom team he has assembled is an excellent one. Tommy Lyons would go to hell and back to get an extra yard out of a player, Kieran Gallagher is a very considered and thoughtful football man and Carney knows the game inside out. The question is though - what input do they actually have? You see with some managers how they're greatest strength is being facilitators - maximizing the strengths of those around him. Is JOM this kind of manager?
I personally think the three boys input may be minimal - that its Johnno's gig and he is calling the shots. Its just a hunch

[kevmy]

3. And then things that seemed to work - Barry Moran at FF showed promise - were abandoned.

Just one quibble here Barry Moran was injured for most of the league campaign. I think the first game he was available for was the Galway game and even then he wasn't fully fit. And in fairness to Austie he came in and gave his most consistent spell for us throughout the league. I know there are still doubts over him - I have them myself - but you can't argue with his record in the league this year (or the FF line in general) and he surely deserves a spin in the Championship. Barry Moran showed well in 2 games at FF one against Cavan who were seriously depleted and the other against Derry which was very good show considering only bout 4 players turned up that day. He'd be second choice for me at the moment but if he was thrown in now I think we get a lot of aimless balls shovelled into the FF position like we did against Derry.

I wouldn't be overconfident myself this year. Having said that I wouldn't be surprised if we won Connacht and got to an AI semi as a lot of other teams are in our boat. Bar Kerry I don't think anyone is outside our range on a good day.

[RedandGreenSniper]

Barry Moran showed well in 2 games at FF one against Cavan who were seriously depleted and the other against Derry which was very good show considering only bout 4 players turned up that day. He'd be second choice for me at the moment but if he was thrown in now I think we get a lot of aimless balls shovelled into the FF position like we did against Derry.

The thing with the Derry game was that after doing so much damage in the air in the first half, Moran didn't get one single high ball in the entire second half. Once the ball got to 50 or 60 metres out guys starting doubling back rather than deliver the ball into Moran. The thing with a big man inside is that if you are struggling to give in good ball to your inside men, you can always lob up a 50 50 ball for him.
Mayo kept running into cul de sacs but refused to use this option. I spoke to Kevin McCloy over the Christmas and he admitted he couldn't believe he was tested in the second half after how well Moran had done against him in the first half.
It was the most infuriating half of football from a Mayo team that I've ever seen. Such mindlessness.

[IolarCoisCuain]

I wouldn't be overconfident myself this year. Having said that I wouldn't be surprised if we won Connacht and got to an AI semi

Bejapers Kevmy if that's what you're like when the head is down you must be a quare man for bulling once you are feeling confident.