Death of Brian Keenan

[his holiness nb]

An alternative view of this "Man of Peace":

How very predicatable 

[Zapatista]

An alternative view of this "Man of Peace":
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article3985132.ece

Of course, I hardly expect unanimous endorsement on this forum of such obviously Brit propaganda such as the Times of London, never mind someone like Sean O'Callaghan, who has clearly never, ever uttered a word of truth in his life (even in his sleep); nonetheless, I found this particular entry instructive:  

"He may have seen himself as a working-class revolutionary, but he was simultaneously a sectarian bigot. "Keenan believed that the only way, in his words, to put the nonsense out of the Prods was to just hit back much harder and more savagely than them," recalls the IRA informer Sean O'Callaghan. It was Keenan who recommended to Seamus Twomey, then the Provisionals' "chief of staff", that the UVF's random anti-Catholic assassinations should be met with reciprocal acts. The result was the IRA's attack in Kingsmill, South Armagh, in January 1976, in which ten Protestants were murdered in a machinegun attack"

That is a cheap shot EG.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

An alternative view of this "Man of Peace":
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article3985132.ece

Of course, I hardly expect unanimous endorsement on this forum of such obviously Brit propaganda such as the Times of London, never mind someone like Sean O'Callaghan, who has clearly never, ever uttered a word of truth in his life (even in his sleep); nonetheless, I found this particular entry instructive:  

"He may have seen himself as a working-class revolutionary, but he was simultaneously a sectarian bigot. "Keenan believed that the only way, in his words, to put the nonsense out of the Prods was to just hit back much harder and more savagely than them," recalls the IRA informer Sean O'Callaghan. It was Keenan who recommended to Seamus Twomey, then the Provisionals' "chief of staff", that the UVF's random anti-Catholic assassinations should be met with reciprocal acts. The result was the IRA's attack in Kingsmill, South Armagh, in January 1976, in which ten Protestants were murdered in a machinegun attack"

Firstly I wouldn't lend much credence to O'Callaghan's thoughts.  I read his autobiography and many of his articles and his convoluted explanations of his (self-acknowledged) lies doesn't stack up for me.

As for Keenan I would have thought that his involvement with the Balcombe Street gang would have lowered his estimation in the eyes of the on-line republicans here?

Especially given their propensity for striking at purely civilian targets.

/Jim.

[his holiness nb]

Did anything honestly think EG's "alternative" view wasnt coming all along?

As I said, very predictable!

[Jim_Murphy_74]

Did anything honestly think EG's "alternative" view wasnt coming all along?

As I said, very predictable!

Mathematically I would say that it was about the same predictability as a Nationalist poster having an "alternative" view of a loyalist terrorist.

But there you go.

/Jim.

[Evil Genius]

Did anything honestly think EG's "alternative" view wasnt coming all along?

As I said, very predictable!

And did you ever think to comment on the predictability* of Republicans like e.g. Donagh or Zapatista praising Keenan?

I am an Irishman who lost close friends, neighbours, schoolmates etc to the activities of people like Keenan, so for all that I gladly acknowledge his eventual endorsement of  the "Peace Process" etc, I personally find it disgusting that other people cannot take a more circumspect view of him and the terrible things he also did over the course of 3 decades. So if my reaction is a "predictable" one, that hardly makes it any less valid than that of other posters.

And as it happens, although I have not personally experienced the brunt of the atrocities carried out by Keenan's "Loyalist" [sic] counterparts, I have absolutely no hesitation in condemning them and their murderous activities in equally forthright terms. Do you find that "predictable", too, or do you somehow just ignore it, since it doesn't seem to conform to your clearly prejudiced view of me and people like me?


* - Come to think about it, just about the most predictable thing on this entire forum is that when I post a substantive comment on any given thread, you will immediately jump to have a pop at me, whilst totally ignoring the point I am trying to make. Or do you have any opinion on the life and death of Brian Keenan?  

[Evil Genius]

An alternative view of this "Man of Peace":
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article3985132.ece

Of course, I hardly expect unanimous endorsement on this forum of such obviously Brit propaganda such as the Times of London, never mind someone like Sean O'Callaghan, who has clearly never, ever uttered a word of truth in his life (even in his sleep); nonetheless, I found this particular entry instructive:  

"He may have seen himself as a working-class revolutionary, but he was simultaneously a sectarian bigot. "Keenan believed that the only way, in his words, to put the nonsense out of the Prods was to just hit back much harder and more savagely than them," recalls the IRA informer Sean O'Callaghan. It was Keenan who recommended to Seamus Twomey, then the Provisionals' "chief of staff", that the UVF's random anti-Catholic assassinations should be met with reciprocal acts. The result was the IRA's attack in Kingsmill, South Armagh, in January 1976, in which ten Protestants were murdered in a machinegun attack"

That is a cheap shot EG.

What is "cheap", in appraising the life of one of the most notable public figures in recent Irish history, to point out that this avowed "Socialist" looks to have ordered people to flag down a minibus of ordinary men coming home from their place of work, send the only catholic on his way, then pump 160 shots into the 10 remaining Protestants whom they'd lined up by the side of the road?

And even if you don't believe O'Callaghan's testimony that Keenan was responsible for that particular atrocity amongst many others, no-one can reasonably deny that he was personally responsible, inter alia, for directing the activities of the Balcombe Street Gang's terror campaign in England in the 1970's. 

For those too young to remember, this particular campaign in the War of Liberation included activities such as murdering civilians by setting off no-warning bombs packed with bolts and ball-bearings etc in public restuarants and hotels etc, then going back days later, after the carnage had been cleared up and they had reopened, to rake the premises with gunfire. Of course, these were often posh restaurants, so this was clearly justified by sound Socialist principles...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/315216.stm

[Main Street]

He seems an interesting man, at the forefront of our modern history.

I hope he had time to write down his story before he died

[his holiness nb]

And did you ever think to comment on the predictability* of Republicans like e.g. Donagh or Zapatista praising Keenan?

Of course it predicatable praising a guy who has just died having given most of his life to the republican cause, coming from a republican on a GAA website.

Theres lots of predictable and obvious statements on here.

But not all are predictable in that they are deliberately made to stir tensions.

Or was your post part of "one small step" ?  

So if my reaction is a "predictable" one, that hardly makes it any less valid than that of other posters.

Correct, while I said your post was predictable, I never said it was less valid than that of other posters. So stop acting the victim again.

And as it happens, although I have not personally experienced the brunt of the atrocities carried out by Keenan's "Loyalist" [sic] counterparts, I have absolutely no hesitation in condemning them and their murderous activities in equally forthright terms. Do you find that "predictable", too,

Certainly less predictable that the intial post, whilst not uncommon either.

or do you somehow just ignore it, since it doesn't seem to conform to your clearly prejudiced view of me and people like me?

When you say I have a prejudiced view of "people like me" do you mean unionists, loyalists or shit stirrers?

I'd certainly have a prejudiced view of shit stirrers, while I seem to get on fine with decent unionists like Chrisown and Nifan who conduct themselves like decent human beings.
Also, given that my opinion of you is formed purely from your comments on here, you might want to check up on the meaning of "prejudiced" before you go accusing people of it.

* - Come to think about it, just about the most predictable thing on this entire forum is that when I post a substantive comment on any given thread, you will immediately jump to have a pop at me, whilst totally ignoring the point I am trying to make. Or do you have any opinion on the life and death of Brian Keenan?  

I strongly disagree, your doing the exact thing you accuse me of above, but to Tony Fearon, is much more predictable  

Now away you go and predictably accuse me of licking tonys arse or being gay or something predictably pathetic.  

[Zapatista]

What is "cheap", in appraising the life of one of the most notable public figures in recent Irish history, to point out that this avowed "Socialist" looks to have ordered people to flag down a minibus of ordinary men coming home from their place of work, send the only catholic on his way, then pump 160 shots into the 10 remaining Protestants whom they'd lined up by the side of the road?

He looks to have nothing EG. A quote from O'Callaghan is a credible as a quote from China about Tibet. There is nothing credible in what you say above in relation to Brian Keenan. I will  join you in saying that particular attack was shameful murder.

And even if you don't believe O'Callaghan's testimony that Keenan was responsible for that particular atrocity amongst many others, no-one can reasonably deny that he was personally responsible, inter alia, for directing the activities of the Balcombe Street Gang's terror campaign in England in the 1970's. 


For those too young to remember, this particular campaign in the War of Liberation included activities such as murdering civilians by setting off no-warning bombs packed with bolts and ball-bearings etc in public restuarants and hotels etc, then going back days later, after the carnage had been cleared up and they had reopened, to rake the premises with gunfire. Of course, these were often posh restaurants, so this was clearly justified by sound Socialist principles...

I remember that differently EG. I will not get into this now as I know I can't fully explain my view of it in text on this forum.

I will say though that your arguement is full of spin. You quote unreliable sourses and cherrypick 3 to 4 minor facts and falsehoods to give your story impact. You are also asking extremely broad questions and looking for narrow answers. Before you quoted O'Callaghan you discredited him and you then base your arguement on him. These are cheap shots. I will not be dragged into a debate you as you have no interest in debate but are only interested in using this thread to attack Brian Keenan and the IRA.

And did you ever think to comment on the predictability* of Republicans like e.g. Donagh or Zapatista praising Keenan?

There are many people who claim to be Republican that I will not give praise to. I am not here towing any party line or posting dogmatic comments. Not that Donagh is.

[ardmhachaabu]

Overall, Brian Keenan's death means very little.

The damage/good has already been done, he agreed with the political steps being taken at various times and indeed, the man, (from all media accounts,) almost single-handedly managed the peace process.  Don't get me wrong, I greatly value the contribution he has made to life in the 6 counties as it is today

Without him, things wouldn't have moved so quickly and he really does deserve major kudos for that alone.  I will not include any comment to God as he didn't believe.

[Rossfan]

this avowed "Socialist" looks to have ordered people to flag down a minibus of ordinary men coming home from their place of work, send the only catholic on his way, then pump 160 shots into the 10 remaining Protestants whom they'd lined up by the side of the road?

Of course that awful event didnt just happen in isolation did it?
More of the Unionist selective memory thingy.

[Tony hawks]

Man of peace i suspect thats stretching credibility a little far he may have played a rule in pushing the Ira down the road of peace but why did it take so long for him to do that almost a generation of violence has warped N Ireland caused by people who thought it was right and proper to kill and maim for their cause and everyside is included in that so i wont pass him any sympathy then neither would i pass on any sympathy to Ian Paisley when he meets his maker.

[orangeman]

Mr Adams added: "He believed in the primacy of politics. And he understood the need to build Sinn Fein as the vehicle of republican struggle.

I don't really understand what Gerry Adams means by this. Since when did he believe in the primacy of politics - in the beginning or near the end ?

[Zapatista]

IT takes a hell of a lot more time to end a war than it does to begin one OM.