Author Topic: Edward Kennedy has brain tumour  (Read 5592 times)

Rav67

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Re: Edward Kennedy has brain tumour
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2008, 12:21:46 PM »
Apparently if he had rung for help at one of the nearby houses the girl might have been saved as she was stuck in an air bubble underwater and could breathe for up to an hour or so.  Yet he went back to his hotel and slept after it (!), how could anyone with a conscience do that.  Heartless b**tard and he must have been 40-odd at this stage, if someone did this in their teens you might say that they could have changed by now.  Can't believe he kept getting elected as a Senator after this.

AZOffaly

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Re: Edward Kennedy has brain tumour
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2008, 12:25:08 PM »
Apparently if he had rung for help at one of the nearby houses the girl might have been saved as she was stuck in an air bubble underwater and could breathe for up to an hour or so. Yet he went back to his hotel and slept after it (!), how could anyone with a conscience do that.  Heartless b**tard and he must have been 40-odd at this stage, if someone did this in their teens you might say that they could have changed by now.  Can't believe he kept getting elected as a Senator after this.

I only have sketchy knowledge of this incident, but that point above puzzles me. How could you tell that? (not you personally, but the investigators or authorities). Presumably the air pocket, if there was one, must have been compromised to drown the girl, so how do they know one existed in the first place? I'm just curious.

Rav67

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Re: Edward Kennedy has brain tumour
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2008, 12:31:25 PM »
The diver who went down for the body said this.  I assume you're at work and wont be able to listen to this but here's an interview with the diver at the scene, its not long so have a listen to it when you get home.  You'll see the link on the page.

http://fatboy.cc/live_from_chappaquiddick.htm

AZOffaly

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Re: Edward Kennedy has brain tumour
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2008, 12:32:33 PM »
I can listen at work alright. I'll have a listen.

J70

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Re: Edward Kennedy has brain tumour
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2008, 01:45:37 PM »
Apparently if he had rung for help at one of the nearby houses the girl might have been saved as she was stuck in an air bubble underwater and could breathe for up to an hour or so. Yet he went back to his hotel and slept after it (!), how could anyone with a conscience do that.  Heartless b**tard and he must have been 40-odd at this stage, if someone did this in their teens you might say that they could have changed by now.  Can't believe he kept getting elected as a Senator after this.

I only have sketchy knowledge of this incident, but that point above puzzles me. How could you tell that? (not you personally, but the investigators or authorities). Presumably the air pocket, if there was one, must have been compromised to drown the girl, so how do they know one existed in the first place? I'm just curious.

An air pocket doesn't contain an infinite supply of oxygen. Once the oxygen level drops below 19.5%, you'll pass out. I presume anyone passing out like that would then drown in the water. I'm not saying that it happened exactly like that, obviously.

AZOffaly

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Re: Edward Kennedy has brain tumour
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2008, 01:47:02 PM »
Apparently if he had rung for help at one of the nearby houses the girl might have been saved as she was stuck in an air bubble underwater and could breathe for up to an hour or so. Yet he went back to his hotel and slept after it (!), how could anyone with a conscience do that.  Heartless b**tard and he must have been 40-odd at this stage, if someone did this in their teens you might say that they could have changed by now.  Can't believe he kept getting elected as a Senator after this.

I only have sketchy knowledge of this incident, but that point above puzzles me. How could you tell that? (not you personally, but the investigators or authorities). Presumably the air pocket, if there was one, must have been compromised to drown the girl, so how do they know one existed in the first place? I'm just curious.

An air pocket doesn't contain an infinite supply of oxygen. Once the oxygen level drops below 19.5%, you'll pass out. I presume anyone passing out like that would then drown in the water. I'm not saying that it happened exactly like that, obviously.

Good point J70. I forgot about the CO2 output replacing oxygen. So can I take it that the air pocket was still intact when she was found?

Rav67

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Re: Edward Kennedy has brain tumour
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2008, 02:21:35 PM »
http://www.ytedk.com/chapter5.htm

This is a timeline of the body recovery, just scroll down to 8.45am.  There's a picture there showing original water level, as well as final water level- by that stage she was completely underwater and no air pocket remained when she was found.

pintsofguinness

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Re: Edward Kennedy has brain tumour
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2008, 01:04:46 PM »
http://www.ytedk.com/chapter5.htm

This is a timeline of the body recovery, just scroll down to 8.45am.  There's a picture there showing original water level, as well as final water level- by that stage she was completely underwater and no air pocket remained when she was found.

I didnt read too much of that site - it's widely reported to have been established as Republican propoganda - but did it mention that the police who investigated the accident didn't believe that Kennedy was the driver.  Does it talk about the drivers window of the car was smashed in meaning he would most certainly (they believe) have had a head injury - he'd no visible injuries.  Does it go into how the police first became suspicious because he kept insisting it was him that was driving, told them over and over again without them prompting him and when he'd no real reason to.  - This from a man who witnesses claim was behaving perfectly normal and calm all morning. 


Also
Quote
At the inquest Judge James Boyle raised doubts about Kennedy's testimony. He pointed out that as Kennedy had a good knowledge of Chappaquiddick Island he could not understand how he managed to drive down Dyke Road by mistake. For example, on the day of the accident, Kennedy had twice had driven on Dyke Road to go to the beach for a swim. To get to Dyke Road involved a 90-degree turn off a metalled road onto the rough, bumpy dirt-track.

An investigation at the scene of the accident by Raymond R. McHenry, suggested that Kennedy approached the bridge at an estimated 34 miles (55 kilometres) per hour. At around 5 metres (17 feet) from the bridge, Kennedy braked violently. This locked the front wheels. According to McHenry: "The car skidded 5 metres (17 feet) along the road, 8 metres (25 feet) up the humpback bridge, jumped a 14 centimetre barrier, somersaulted through the air for about 10 metres (35 feet) into the water and landed upside-down."

Investigators found it difficult to understand why he was crossing Dyke Bridge when he said he was attempting to reach Edgartown which was in the opposite direction. They also could not understand why he was driving so fast on this unlit, uneven, road. They also could not work out how Kennedy escaped from the car. When it was recovered from the water all the doors were locked. Three of the windows were either open or smashed in. If Kennedy, a large-framed 6 foot 2 inches tall man could manage to get out of the car, why was it impossible for Kopechne, a slender 5 foot 2 inches tall, not do the same?

Local experts could not understand why Kennedy (and later, Markham and Gargan) could not rescue Kopechne from the car. It also surprised investigators that Kennedy did not seek help from Pierre Malm, who only lived 135 metres from the bridge. At the inquest Kennedy was unable to answer this question.

There were also doubts about the way Mary Jo Kopechne died. Dr. Donald Mills of Edgartown, wrote on the death certificate: "death by drowning". However, Gene Frieh, the undertaker, told reporters that death "was due to suffocation rather than drowning". John Farrar, the diver who removed Kopechne from the car, claimed she was "too buoyant to be full of water". It is assumed that she died from drowning, although her parents filed a petition preventing an autopsy.

Other questions were asked about Kennedy's decision to swim back to Edgartown. The 150 metre channel had strong currents and only the strongest of swimmers would have been able to make the journey safely. Also no one saw Kennedy arrive back at the Shiretown Inn in wet clothes. Ross Richards, who had a conversation with Kennedy the following morning at the hotel described him as casual and at ease.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAkennedyE.htm


btw, the girl's family have never seemed to bear any ill will towards Kennedy which is also a little strange. 


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pintsofguinness

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Re: Edward Kennedy has brain tumour
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2008, 02:42:24 PM »
Quote
btw, the girl's family have never seemed to bear any ill will towards Kennedy which is also a little strange.

Thats because the dogs on the street know that Kennedy wasnt driving. Everyone knows it was Holly, Aged 8, from Kent.

Dont think you can blame it on Holly.
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stew

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Re: Edward Kennedy has brain tumour
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2008, 03:01:39 PM »
Apparently if he had rung for help at one of the nearby houses the girl might have been saved as she was stuck in an air bubble underwater and could breathe for up to an hour or so.  Yet he went back to his hotel and slept after it (!), how could anyone with a conscience do that.  Heartless b**tard and he must have been 40-odd at this stage, if someone did this in their teens you might say that they could have changed by now.  Can't believe he kept getting elected as a Senator after this.

Massachussetts is a liberal state, they forgive everybody and anybody.

Kennedy is the consummate politician, he would  have sold out his mother for a few swing votes.
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magickingdom

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Re: Edward Kennedy has brain tumour
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2008, 06:03:00 PM »
anyway now that we've dealt with that awful accident i for one hope senator kennedy makes a full recovery. he has spent the last 40 odd years doing his best to help other people (as both sides of the US house would acknowledge) done great work on health care and gave a considerable hand in helping ireland too..

J70

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Re: Edward Kennedy has brain tumour
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2008, 06:13:10 PM »
he has spent the last 40 odd years doing his best to help other people (as both sides of the US house would acknowledge)

Perhaps his fellow senators, who know him personally and have co-sponsored bills and worked on committees with him might have time for him, but the US right wing in general despises him, both for stuff like Chappaquidick and the general perception of above-the-law, reckless entitlement that many have of the Kennedys, and for the fact that he is a proud, unapologetic, formidable and very influential liberal.

pintsofguinness

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Re: Edward Kennedy has brain tumour
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2008, 07:24:22 PM »
he has spent the last 40 odd years doing his best to help other people (as both sides of the US house would acknowledge)

Perhaps his fellow senators, who know him personally and have co-sponsored bills and worked on committees with him might have time for him, but the US right wing in general despises him, both for stuff like Chappaquidick and the general perception of above-the-law, reckless entitlement that many have of the Kennedys, and for the fact that he is a proud, unapologetic, formidable and very influential liberal.

Yeah, I would see that as a good thing (though Bush and McCain have paid tribute).  I hope he makes a recovery however it doesnt look very likely.  I've said on here before I am a massive fan of the three brothers.  Ted's private life may have been far from perfect (maybe a lot of it had to do with the relatives he buried) but he was an excellent senator and poltician and, like his brothers, he used his wealth and his power to fight for those that hadnt the means to do it themselves. 
Hopefully it'll be of some comfort to the family to be able to spend some time with him rather than to have him snapped from them like the others.
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J70

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Re: Edward Kennedy has brain tumour
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2008, 07:38:25 PM »
he has spent the last 40 odd years doing his best to help other people (as both sides of the US house would acknowledge)

Perhaps his fellow senators, who know him personally and have co-sponsored bills and worked on committees with him might have time for him, but the US right wing in general despises him, both for stuff like Chappaquidick and the general perception of above-the-law, reckless entitlement that many have of the Kennedys, and for the fact that he is a proud, unapologetic, formidable and very influential liberal.

Yeah, I would see that as a good thing (though Bush and McCain have paid tribute).  I hope he makes a recovery however it doesnt look very likely.  I've said on here before I am a massive fan of the three brothers.  Ted's private life may have been far from perfect (maybe a lot of it had to do with the relatives he buried) but he was an excellent senator and poltician and, like his brothers, he used his wealth and his power to fight for those that hadnt the means to do it themselves. 
Hopefully it'll be of some comfort to the family to be able to spend some time with him rather than to have him snapped from them like the others.

A lot of these guys in the Senate and House and the White House would get on on a personal level, despite political differences, while you often hear stories of political allies despising each other personally! Apparently Al Gore and the Clintons would not be close, to put it mildly, and the same goes for McCain and Bush (although I couldn't blame McCain for that given what was done in Bush's name in the South Carolina primary in 2000). Sure weren't John Hume and Paisley fairly friendly as MEPs, despite all Paisley's ranting and obstruction over the years?

stew

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Re: Edward Kennedy has brain tumour
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2008, 09:01:58 PM »
he has spent the last 40 odd years doing his best to help other people (as both sides of the US house would acknowledge)

Perhaps his fellow senators, who know him personally and have co-sponsored bills and worked on committees with him might have time for him, but the US right wing in general despises him, both for stuff like Chappaquidick and the general perception of above-the-law, reckless entitlement that many have of the Kennedys, and for the fact that he is a proud, unapologetic, formidable and very influential liberal.

Yeah, I would see that as a good thing (though Bush and McCain have paid tribute).  I hope he makes a recovery however it doesnt look very likely.  I've said on here before I am a massive fan of the three brothers.  Ted's private life may have been far from perfect (maybe a lot of it had to do with the relatives he buried) but he was an excellent senator and poltician and, like his brothers, he used his wealth and his power to fight for those that hadnt the means to do it themselves. 
Hopefully it'll be of some comfort to the family to be able to spend some time with him rather than to have him snapped from them like the others.

Bobby was the best of them all, by a long way. The Kennedy's did want to help the underpriviliged and that will form part of their legacy but Teddy will be judged for the cowardice he displayed on the cape, and it should haunt him, he should have been charged for the crime of leaving the scene and allowing a young woman to drown.
Armagh, the one true love of a mans life.