Copyrighting a Club Crest

[bennydorano]

This might of interest to some people out there.  A while back I undertook to find out about copyrighting or trade-marking our club crest as we were basically getting a raw deal from local sports shops who sold our club branded goods with little or no return for the club itself.

The process is pretty much straightforward and cheap (trade-marking is out because it is very expensive in comparison).
1.Initially contact Croke park to outline that you are interested in copyrighting, they will require names, addresses etc.. of club officers and the designer of the crest itself. (I have an e-mail address of a particular contact but I don't want to publicise it here, PM me if you want it).
2.You have to get the designer of the crest to sign over his work to the club – because our club crest was designed by a club member this only cost us a nominal fee of £10. (this is formally done in the step below)
3.Croke Park draft up the legal document and e-mail it out, to be signed/witnessed by all concerned parties. 
4.The copyright is effective in any country that acknowledges 'copyrights' so pretty much worldwide.
5. Leave the document with club solicitors and that's it.

You are now in a stronger position to negotiate with said local sports shops, but Croke Park did make it pretty clear that if they were selling club branded goods before the crest was copyrighted you wouldn't have a leg to stand on in any court of law – so legal advice would be an idea. It does give your club a strong hand in any future negotiations.

[Maguire01]

But if the copyright belongs to the artist (until they sign/sell it away), then could the artist not have stopped the sports shop ever selling the gear?

As someone who does a bit of photography, that's my understanding of the issue - if i saw my work being sold with no payment to me (substitute for 'payment to club' in this case), i'd be going after the trader.

[armaghniac]

Many GAA crests have their origins lost in the mists of time. If you do a new one, then you can copyright it and no problem with prior selling. This is why, for example, the Armagh crest now has an apple tree.

[bennydorano]

But if the copyright belongs to the artist (until they sign/sell it away), then could the artist not have stopped the sports shop ever selling the gear?

As someone who does a bit of photography, that's my understanding of the issue - if i saw my work being sold with no payment to me (substitute for 'payment to club' in this case), i'd be going after the trader.

Just because it was his design doesn't mean it was copyrighted, I assume he would have had to register the copyright, maybe he never had the inclination to as it was done in an era when shops wouldn't have been selling a lot of club gear.

[Maguire01]

But if the copyright belongs to the artist (until they sign/sell it away), then could the artist not have stopped the sports shop ever selling the gear?

As someone who does a bit of photography, that's my understanding of the issue - if i saw my work being sold with no payment to me (substitute for 'payment to club' in this case), i'd be going after the trader.

Just because it was his design doesn't mean it was copyrighted, I assume he would have had to register the copyright, maybe he never had the inclination to as it was done in an era when shops wouldn't have been selling a lot of club gear.

No, the copyright is automatically with the artist.  You couldn't expect a photographer to register every one of their photographs. You can't just take an artist's painting and start selling copies (legally). The designer of the crest/design owns the rights until they sell/transfer them.

UK law is as follows - not sure about Irish law, but i assume it's similar:

When rights occur
Copyright is an automatic right and arises whenever an individual or company creates a work. To qualify, a work should be regarded as original, and exhibits a degree of labour, skill or judgement

Interpretation is related to the independent creation rather than the idea behind the creation. For example, your idea for a book would not itself be protected, but the actual content of a book you write would be. In other words, someone else is still entitled to write their own book around the same idea, provided they do not directly copy or adapt yours to do so.

Names, titles, short phrases and colours are not generally considered unique or substantial enough to be covered, but a creation, such as a logo, that combines these elements may be.

In short, work that expresses an idea may be protected, but not the idea behind it.

Who owns a piece of work
Normally the individual or collective who authored the work will exclusively own the work. However, if a work is produced as part of employment then it will normally belong to the person/company who hired the individual.

Freelance or commissioned work will usually belong to the author of the work, unless there is an agreement to the contrary, (i.e. in a contract for service).
Rights cannot be claimed for any part of a work which is a copy taken from a previous work. For example, in a piece of music featuring samples from a previous work, the copyright of the samples would still remain with the original author.

Only the owner, or his exclusive licensee can bring proceedings in the courts.

[bennydorano]

Ignorance is the answer then. 

[johnpower]

I believe Man UTD realised in the late 60s that their then crest which was the same as the city of Manchester could not be copyrighted so they had to change ,I never realised that this would become an issue for a GAA club ?

[thewingedlady]

On the question of UK and Irish Copyright law, I remember from doing intellectual property last year that the 2 statutes are almost identical, to the point that there was a running joke about the Irish Act infringing the copyright of its English counterpart.

Interesting topic, when i saw the thread come up I immediately thought 'Trademark' because the club badge would be seen first and foremost as a mark of origin, i.e. that gear bearing the clubs badge was officially licensed club gear. But as thats too expensive it doesn't seem to be an option.

Copyright, if I can remember correctly, would protect the actual design of the club badge as an artistic work, not as an indicator of brand.
Dunno what way this one could work out