11-Plus Proposal

[Chrisowc]

This is a classist policy (is there such a word? and if so, apologies for the awful pun) and the woman is a complete buffoon.

Classist in what way Chris? In what way is she a buffoon?

Classist as in this 'equality' sh*te that keeps getting trotted out.  Under priveliged children not getting a chance.  If you are good enough you will 'pass' the 11 plus.  I wasn't and didn't.

As for her being a buffoon?  Where will I start???

...seems a few folks probably agree with me

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7650649.stm

[Tony Baloney]

Ruane is a busted flush. The grammar schools are grasping the nettle because she refused to bring clarity to her proposals and instead trotted out the same tired old lines about "engaging with stakeholders". It's time she was put out to pasture.

[saffron sam2]

Surely there should be the minimum level of "intelligence" required for entry into all grammar schools.

Never thought we would hear this from you SS2.

Just highlighting an absurdity of the current system. One of many.

[Chrisowc]

Surely there should be the minimum level of "intelligence" required for entry into all grammar schools.

Never thought we would hear this from you SS2.

Just highlighting an absurdity of the current system. One of many.

At least there is a current system.

[FermGael]

So what will happen here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8542018.stm

DUP leader Peter Robinson has accused the Catholic Church of being intent on denying its young people a grammar school education.

He was speaking as the Church outlined proposals to dramatically change the maintained sector's post-primary education.

Cardinal Sean Brady launched the first step in creating a network of all ability schools on Monday.

But Mr Robinson said many Catholic parents were completely against this.



"The Roman Catholic Church appears determined to deny young people the opportunity of a grammar school education," he said.

"I know many Roman Catholic parents vehemently oppose this position. They too understand the importance of successful academic schools in the development of our society here.

"I am determined to ensure that an academic option is available to those from all backgrounds who wish to pursue this path."

The first minister said that while he believed in grammar schools, he did not think that future transfer to post-primary education had to involve a traditional test.

He said the replacement of the 11-plus with involved multiple exams "hardly seemed to be an educational advancement" and that he favoured computer adaptive testing (CAT), which looks at a child's ability over a longer time period.

The CAT method has been discussed in the past by those in favour of selection.


  We have been and will continue throughout this process to consult beyond the Catholic network of schools and explore new ways of sharing resources, facilities and personnel

In CAT exams the questions become more or less difficult according to how well each batch of questions is answered.

Test scores over a number of years could then be used by post-primary schools to select pupils.

Launching the Catholic Church's proposals, Cardinal Sean Brady said Catholic schools would consult beyond their own sector to share resources.

The sweeping review of the maintained sector's post-primary education includes a central commitment to the ending of academic selection, but it also examines other ways of working.

"We have been and will continue throughout this process to consult beyond the Catholic network of schools," Cardinal Brady said.

"And explore new ways of sharing resources, facilities and personnel at local level to ensure that the best possible education for all children in our society is achieved."

Cardinal Brady said that he wanted politicians to move beyond "the narrow focus on academic selection and to engage in a wider, more inclusive discussion about how together we can provide the best possible system of education for every child in Northern Ireland".

Some grammar schools are thought to be unwilling to accept the end of academic selection.

Schools are now using unregulated entrance exams. The commission on Catholic education has already said that should not continue after 2012.

The commission is trying to tackle a reduction in the number of pupils, demands for a wider choice of subjects and the hierarchy's wish to end academic selection.

Gerry Lundy who directed the post-primary review said: "What we are trying to do is to move away from this narrow focus on academic selection.


Cardinal Sean Brady made the plans public on Monday
"To address that issue ... for the community and schools what the future is and what the shape of that future should be.

"This is a consultation process. What we are asking people to do is to respond to the challenges set out in the consultation."

Over the next four weeks, the commission will reveal the options open to clusters of schools in 17 different areas across Northern Ireland.

These include:


Some areas will see new colleges for children aged 11 to 15 and 14 to 19


There will be more amalgamations of groups of two and three schools


Some single sex schools could become co-educational and others may be federated, with two or more schools governed by one body


The commission wants a network of all-ability schools, removing the need for academic selection

The plans are aimed at meeting government policy objectives, including sustainable schools and the entitlement framework, a scheme designed to give pupils increased subject choice.



The review also aims to remove thousands of empty desks from the post-primary maintained sector.

Changes are expected to take place over the next decade rather than schools facing immediate upheaval.

It would see schools run by different Catholic religious orders come together in future mergers or collaborations.

The commission said that it will ask for feedback from schools and parents.

The principals of all grammar schools in Northern Ireland have been invited to a meeting on Monday night to see if they can agree on a single transfer test for this year.

Will be interesting to hear the Catholic Grammar response to this proposal.
Will they defy the church??  Interesting times ahead.

I still find it quite amazing that the party that is suppose to represent the Unionist working classes is for academic selection.

[Ulick]

There's something a little amusing about watching the Catholic Church having to drag our society into the modern world.

[jolene]

Whilst it might be ironic to some that the Catholic Church have decided to present a plan to modernise the education system they are prepared to risk the ire of many by doing so. That aside they are presenting a value based approach to the modernisation of education in NI. Everyone (political parties and schools inc grammars) appear to accept that the 11Plus is wrong but few are prepared to take responsibility for working out alternative plans. This is what the Church and the Catholic schools are doing. Their plans may not be perfect, in fact they may be wrong in some instances, but at least they have spent three years working with schools to come up with plans open for consultation.

[FermGael]

A sign of things to come..........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11332120

School disputes transfer test pupil sick before exam


A pupil denied grammar school entry after sitting the new transfer test produced no medical proof that he was violently sick the night before.

The claim was made in High Court by lawyers for Omagh Christian Brothers grammar school.

They claimed the potentially landmark challenge brought by the boy's family could not succeed.

The court also heard that the pupil only reported that he had been ill after receiving his results.

Turlough Montague QC, representing Omagh CB said: "The case that is advanced... does not deal with the failure to provide medical evidence.

"That, we say, is a complete bar to the applicant's entitlement to exceptionial circumstances and to any remedy before the court."

Mr Montague had urged the judge to resist adjourning the case involving Omagh CBS, arguing that his client had "a clean knock-out blow".

The barrister claimed: "This entire application, we say, is grounded on what is in fact a smokescreen to camouflage a point that is unanswerable in the case."

He said neither the boy nor his mother told anyone he was feeling unwell when he sat the assessment.

It was only after the pupil received his results that it was reported how he was violently ill the night before the test, the court heard.

Mr Montague further submitted that a GP's letter stated the boy had been anxious and unsettled due to recent episodes of bullying.

Monye Anyadike-Danes QC, for the child's mother, argued there were issues around the school's procedures which put it "at odds" with Department of Education guidance.

As well as the case involving Omagh CBS, the mother of a girl not given a place at St Patrick's Academy, Dungannon is also seeking to overturn the school's decision.

Neither child can be identified for legal reasons.

Mr Justice Deeny decided to adjourn both applications until next month after remarking on the "significant legal issues involved".

He added that in the case involving Omagh CBS an apparently "powerful submission" had been made on the school's behalf.

Both applications for leave to seek a judicial review were adjourned until Exceptional Circumstances Body (ECB) hearings take place early next month.

If that tribunal finds in favour of the families it would bring an end to proceedings before the High Court.

[pintsofguinness]

Those parents need to get their heads out of their holes.

[gallsman]

This is exactly the same shite that was going on with the 11 plus. If a pupil didn't get the grade needed to get into the school of their choice they'd bring legal proceedings. Happened God knows how many times in my own school.

[Gaffer]

What right has a school to say to a child

"You are not smart enough to get into this school but its ok for your parent(s) to pay for the upkeep of this school through their taxes"

[gallsman]

What right has a school to say to a child

"You are not smart enough to get into this school but its ok for your parent(s) to pay for the upkeep of this school through their taxes"

That's not the topic raised by FermGael's post.

Like it or not, the grammar school's have retained policies of academic selection.

[Tony Baloney]

What right has a school to say to a child

"You are not smart enough to get into this school but its ok for your parent(s) to pay for the upkeep of this school through their taxes"

That's not the topic raised by FermGael's post.

Like it or not, the grammar school's have retained policies of academic selection.

Proper order.

[Gaffer]

What right has a school to say to a child

"You are not smart enough to get into this school but its ok for your parent(s) to pay for the upkeep of this school through their taxes"

That's not the topic raised by FermGael's post.

Like it or not, the grammar school's have retained policies of academic selection.

Proper order.

Why?

[FermGael]

I cannot believe i am tying this.  I actually agree with Peter Robinson

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11555984

Robinson slams education system 'apartheid'

Peter Robinson called the Northern Ireland education system "a benign form of apartheid" The First Minister has described the Northern Ireland education system as a "benign form of apartheid".

In a speech on Friday, Peter Robinson said the current system, where Catholics and Protestants are usually educated separately, must change.

He said that he wanted to set up a commission to look at the total integration of the different sectors.

He compared the system to South Africa during apartheid where black and white children were educated separately.

BBC NI education correspondent Maggie Taggart said the speech was likely to provoke controversy.

In an apparent reference to Catholic schools, he said he had no objection to church schools but he did object to the state paying for them.

"It may take ten years or longer to address this problem, which dates back many decades, but the real crime would be to accept the status quo for the sake of a quiet life," he said.

"The benefits of such a system are not merely financial but could play a transformative role in changing society in Northern Ireland."

He added that there were a number of "knotty issues" such as "religious education, school assembly devotions and the curriculum".

"Future generations will not thank us if we fail to address this issue," the DUP leader said.

It would be difficult to dislodge "vested interests", he said, but was "convinced" that it should be done.

Our correspondent said that the DUP position has been that the state - or controlled - sector was non-denominational and could be used by those of all religions and none.

She added that Mr Robinson was proposing a single education system, rather than enlarging the integrated system which he did not believe would create the critical mass needed to make a real difference.