Author Topic: Pay~for~Play  (Read 5957 times)

AZOffaly

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Re: Pay~for~Play
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2008, 10:03:21 AM »
As I wrote the column which appeared in the Tyrone Herald on Monday I have no problems with the criticisms but I have to take issue with remarks from AZOffaly who highlighted the following sentence which has since been deleted from the board though I would be happy if it were re-inserted.
the sentence refeered to was, "The most telling contribution of last weekend came from Dessie Farrell who said it will be incumbent on the GAA in three years time to continue paying the 'grants' after the government scheme is completed.
In his second post AZOffaly uses this line to state, "...an error like the one he made about what Dessie Farrell said at congress is brutal in such  a case."  In his forth post he says, "If you lie about what he actually said, rather than what you see are his private opinions, you are making an eejit out of yourself."
For starters I did not say Dessie Farrell said it at Congress rather over that weekend. 
Sourcing the Sunday Tribune of Sunday 13 April, Kieran Shannon writes, " Farrell also pointed out that while the GAA had no onus to fund the scheme should the government not renew it upon the expiry of the agreed three-year-period, it was incumbent on the GAA authorities "to make sure this funding remains available."
Not surprisingly a typically ambigious statement. It seems that Dessie does not care how they get it as long as they get it-and if the government don't renew it where else will it come from except the coffers of the GAA?
It is a matter of interpretation and we will know in three years.
I absolutly refute the allegation that I lied and am happy with that line.   
         

Hi there RMcSherry

Thanks for coming on to clarify. I assumed (wrongly it seems) that you were referencing his quote from the Congress itself where he explicitly said there would be NO obligation on the GAA to continue funding these grants/expenses should the Government withdraw the funding. I apologise for that assumption, as it was clearly wrong. I also apologise for the 'liar' comment, which was spawned from the fact that I thought the comments were regarding the Congress statement.

I was unaware of any further statements from Dessie since then, until you posted the above. I do not feel Dessie Farrell said what you have inferred from his comment, but I understand why you would think it. However, you phrased it in such a way as to imply it was a direct statement, which it wasn't.

Myself and yourself probably have similar views regarding Dessie's end game, but I don't feel it lends credibility to try and 'twist' or interpet his comments. By all means bring up his prior statements, and those of Donal Óg etc, in a bid to cast doubt on their current public statements, but trying to spin what they say into something they didn't say only harms the argument you are trying to make.

Only my opinion of course and, as I say, I would share a lot of your concerns.

Welcome aboard.

orangeman

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Re: Pay~for~Play
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2008, 01:11:09 PM »
As I wrote the column which appeared in the Tyrone Herald on Monday I have no problems with the criticisms but I have to take issue with remarks from AZOffaly who highlighted the following sentence which has since been deleted from the board though I would be happy if it were re-inserted.
the sentence refeered to was, "The most telling contribution of last weekend came from Dessie Farrell who said it will be incumbent on the GAA in three years time to continue paying the 'grants' after the government scheme is completed.
In his second post AZOffaly uses this line to state, "...an error like the one he made about what Dessie Farrell said at congress is brutal in such  a case."  In his forth post he says, "If you lie about what he actually said, rather than what you see are his private opinions, you are making an eejit out of yourself."
For starters I did not say Dessie Farrell said it at Congress rather over that weekend. 
Sourcing the Sunday Tribune of Sunday 13 April, Kieran Shannon writes, " Farrell also pointed out that while the GAA had no onus to fund the scheme should the government not renew it upon the expiry of the agreed three-year-period, it was incumbent on the GAA authorities "to make sure this funding remains available."
Not surprisingly a typically ambigious statement. It seems that Dessie does not care how they get it as long as they get it-and if the government don't renew it where else will it come from except the coffers of the GAA?
It is a matter of interpretation and we will know in three years.
I absolutly refute the allegation that I lied and am happy with that line.   
         

Hi there RMcSherry

Thanks for coming on to clarify. I assumed (wrongly it seems) that you were referencing his quote from the Congress itself where he explicitly said there would be NO obligation on the GAA to continue funding these grants/expenses should the Government withdraw the funding. I apologise for that assumption, as it was clearly wrong. I also apologise for the 'liar' comment, which was spawned from the fact that I thought the comments were regarding the Congress statement.

I was unaware of any further statements from Dessie since then, until you posted the above. I do not feel Dessie Farrell said what you have inferred from his comment, but I understand why you would think it. However, you phrased it in such a way as to imply it was a direct statement, which it wasn't.

Myself and yourself probably have similar views regarding Dessie's end game, but I don't feel it lends credibility to try and 'twist' or interpet his comments. By all means bring up his prior statements, and those of Donal Óg etc, in a bid to cast doubt on their current public statements, but trying to spin what they say into something they didn't say only harms the argument you are trying to make.

Only my opinion of course and, as I say, I would share a lot of your concerns.

Welcome aboard.


I knew R Mc Sherry wouldn't get it wrong - his journalistic skills just wouldn't allow for such a major faux pas !

passedit

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Re: Pay~for~Play
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2008, 01:34:17 PM »
I stand over what I wrote... and issue is being accused of telling a lie... is how I interpreted what he said beacuse is left wide open to interpretation. 

You said:

"Dessie Farrell said it will be incumbent on the GAA in three years time to continue paying the ‘grants’ after the government scheme is completed"

He did not say that.

Instead of repeating what he said, you deliberately twisted it to suit your own agenda.

You lied.



Lying
Dissembling
deliberate misrepresentation
wishful thinking
economy with the actualité

Take your pick!
Don't Panic

tyrone86

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Re: Pay~for~Play
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2008, 05:03:59 PM »
I stand over what I wrote... and issue is being accused of telling a lie... is how I interpreted what he said beacuse is left wide open to interpretation. 

You said:

"Dessie Farrell said it will be incumbent on the GAA in three years time to continue paying the ‘grants’ after the government scheme is completed"

He did not say that.

Instead of repeating what he said, you deliberately twisted it to suit your own agenda.

You lied.



Says the man who is spouting shite about Club Tyrone

johnpower

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Re: Pay~for~Play
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2008, 11:16:34 PM »
The passion that took the grassroots to the Elk in Toomebridge
before Christmas was eroded over the months with a handful left to
fight for the GAA’s amateur status come April.


That's usually what happens when the sky is falling arguments are used.

It is credit to Mark Conway, Donal McAnallen aided by Fahy solicitors
of Omagh who gave their service free of charge to oppose the payments.


Why, who was going to pay them? Who could've paid them? Why would they want to be paid?

Never again can we push our chests out with pride as we tell our visitors from abroad at Croke Park,
‘Those boys don’t get paid. They only do it for the love of the jersey
and county.”


Why is there this manic need for the admiration from 'foreigners'? Did you actually do that in the past? Best to sit back and enjoy the game instead of worrying if foreigners know the financial background of the players on show

A romantic ideal but with the GAA bosses and the GPA eyeing the pot of
gold there was a sad inevitability the Celtic Tiger mindset would
envelop the association.


It's called 2008. At least this time expenses are above the table.

Dessie Farrell is on record stating that is his goal although he won’t
say so publicly now.


So it's on record, in private?

They changed the name from ‘grants’ to ‘expenses’ while the
make-up and distribution of the payments remained the same. You say
po-tato, I say pot-ato.


You know, you're probably right. It shows how shallow the original argument was.

The scheme was pushed through by a hierarchy who cowed to the threat of a players’ strike - a threat that was one of the most shameful episodes

You're right. It was ridiculous and would never have come to pass from what I'm led to believe. If you honestly believe a strike would've taken place then you must not really know our county players. (although to be fair, it has been a while since Coalisland had one)
 
in the history of the GAA and an insult to the thousands of club members and supporters who for years have spent their hard earned money following their county teams.

What bollocks.


The door to pay-for-play is opened and we can look forward to future
negotiations on the amount. As Seamus McCloy said of the payments, “The only way is up.”


Crystal ball time again. Those 'the end is nigh' fellows in the city centre come to mind.


It is unlikely, the opponents of the payments will walk away. They
can’t. Exchanging banter with opposition supporters on summer
afternoons on Fermanagh Street in Clones, the colours on Liberty
Square, Thurles and searching for friends among the throngs outside
Quinns on the Drumcondra Road is a way of life. It’s what we are.
Of-One-Belief did not lose at Congress, the GAA did.


Nothing has changed. Of one belief now look like a bunch of witch-hunting reactionists (my opinion).

It is a source of
pride Of-One-Belief originated in Tyrone and our county board stood
firm.


Starting to feel sick.

The deal is done and dusted. Time will prove the anti-payment lobby
called it correctly. As another Tyrone supporter Bernadette McAliskey
once said, “It’s all over and the good guys lost.”


Jaysus. Bernadette.







Excellent reply and from a Tyrone man .



Fear ón Srath Bán

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Re: Pay~for~Play
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2008, 11:50:33 PM »
Fiery embers these are, I'll tread with care, and welcome Rónán, but one question that all of the pro-GPA lobby have studiously avoided it seems to me (pace O'Neill  ;)) -- what money will be substituted for the government grants when the government grants dry up (or are there some who believe that that is an inexhaustible well)? The long finger is not that long, and don't even start me about short termism!
Carlsberg don't do Gombeenocracies, but by jaysus if they did...

ONeill

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Re: Pay~for~Play
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2008, 12:20:26 AM »
FoSB, surely you are aware of the value of the GAA to the Irish Govn. There is absolutely no question of the paltry monies available drying up.
I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

Uladh

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Re: Pay~for~Play
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2008, 11:34:29 AM »

Of course not. the GAA carries a large vote in irish society and if politicians know anything they know that.

orangeman

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Re: Pay~for~Play
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2008, 12:48:21 PM »

Of course not. the GAA carries a large vote in irish society and if politicians know anything they know that.

Wasn't Brian Cowen a handy footballer for all levels with Offaly ?

Frank Casey

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Re: Pay~for~Play
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2008, 10:12:07 PM »
I'd never be so sure in terms of any government funding. There are plenty of people on hospital trolleys tonight because hospital administrators thought the government would continue to sign blank cheques. The gold is not so plentiful these days and regardless of how much the government might covet the GAA vote or Brian Cowen's personal attachment to the association, take nothing for granted.

If the exchequer funding is off the table then what?
KERRY 3:7

Hound

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Re: Pay~for~Play
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2008, 12:09:30 AM »

Says the man who is spouting shite about Club Tyrone

The lone voice returns.

We believe you I swear  ;)

Viva la club tir eoghain

bigpaul

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Re: Pay~for~Play
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2008, 01:00:49 AM »
Just a couple of points that I feel would be worth pulling together on this. In one of his 'anti-grants' pieces in  Gaelic Life, Joe Brolly ,while illustrating how well county players were looked after, stated that Club Tyrone gave each member of the Tyrone panel £3,000stg spending money for their team holiday after winning the All-Ireland in 2005. Now, I thought this a curious argument to use in defence of the amateur status rule, £3,000 'spending money' while on an all-expenses paid trip? However, in light of the assertions made by a couple of contributors here, namely that the Tyrone County Board controls every brass penny that Club Tyrone raise, would this not be in breach of rule 11? Does anyone else think that this is a monetary reward for playing Gaelic football? If so, and the accounts of Club Tyrone are so readily available and ultimately controled by TCB, it could be worth having a look at!

muppet

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Re: Pay~for~Play
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2008, 11:01:56 AM »
Just a couple of points that I feel would be worth pulling together on this. In one of his 'anti-grants' pieces in  Gaelic Life, Joe Brolly ,while illustrating how well county players were looked after, stated that Club Tyrone gave each member of the Tyrone panel £3,000stg spending money for their team holiday after winning the All-Ireland in 2005. Now, I thought this a curious argument to use in defence of the amateur status rule, £3,000 'spending money' while on an all-expenses paid trip? However, in light of the assertions made by a couple of contributors here, namely that the Tyrone County Board controls every brass penny that Club Tyrone raise, would this not be in breach of rule 11? Does anyone else think that this is a monetary reward for playing Gaelic football? If so, and the accounts of Club Tyrone are so readily available and ultimately controled by TCB, it could be worth having a look at!

It might be nice if the bauld Joe illustrated exactly how much he is paid for his Gaa punditry. Given that the only reason he is there is because he is a former player commentating on current players, it is a bit rich if he takes the money and vehemently opposes his former peers for doing so.
MWWSI 2017

pintsofguinness

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Re: Pay~for~Play
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2008, 01:03:00 PM »
Just a couple of points that I feel would be worth pulling together on this. In one of his 'anti-grants' pieces in  Gaelic Life, Joe Brolly ,while illustrating how well county players were looked after, stated that Club Tyrone gave each member of the Tyrone panel £3,000stg spending money for their team holiday after winning the All-Ireland in 2005. Now, I thought this a curious argument to use in defence of the amateur status rule, £3,000 'spending money' while on an all-expenses paid trip? However, in light of the assertions made by a couple of contributors here, namely that the Tyrone County Board controls every brass penny that Club Tyrone raise, would this not be in breach of rule 11? Does anyone else think that this is a monetary reward for playing Gaelic football? If so, and the accounts of Club Tyrone are so readily available and ultimately controled by TCB, it could be worth having a look at!

It might be nice if the bauld Joe illustrated exactly how much he is paid for his Gaa punditry. Given that the only reason he is there is because he is a former player commentating on current players, it is a bit rich if he takes the money and vehemently opposes his former peers for doing so.

Are you suggesting joe should sit in a RTE studio or write articles for newspapers for nothing?
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

Hardy

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Re: Pay~for~Play
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2008, 01:48:39 PM »
Just a couple of points that I feel would be worth pulling together on this. In one of his 'anti-grants' pieces in  Gaelic Life, Joe Brolly ,while illustrating how well county players were looked after, stated that Club Tyrone gave each member of the Tyrone panel £3,000stg spending money for their team holiday after winning the All-Ireland in 2005. Now, I thought this a curious argument to use in defence of the amateur status rule, £3,000 'spending money' while on an all-expenses paid trip? However, in light of the assertions made by a couple of contributors here, namely that the Tyrone County Board controls every brass penny that Club Tyrone raise, would this not be in breach of rule 11? Does anyone else think that this is a monetary reward for playing Gaelic football? If so, and the accounts of Club Tyrone are so readily available and ultimately controled by TCB, it could be worth having a look at!

It might be nice if the bauld Joe illustrated exactly how much he is paid for his Gaa punditry. Given that the only reason he is there is because he is a former player commentating on current players, it is a bit rich if he takes the money and vehemently opposes his former peers for doing so.

With all due respect, Muppet, that's horseshite.