Ciaran McDonald not named in Mayo panel

[muppet]

Zulu most of us are happy with Trevor Howley at CB even though he had a difficult time with McGuigan in Omagh (who hasn't). He was on the successful U-21 team and will hopefully go on to at least match Aiden O'Mahony, though he will never be a Moynihan.

FB is still a problem and the current incumbent is very new so I will reserve judgement.

Dara O'Shea is at least 176 years old now so you can keep him I'd take McGarrity who is still in his mid 20s. Ronan's problem is finding a partner. Parsons will probably start and played very well in the U-21 semi v Kerry but he is still U-21 next year and will take a few years to become hopefully a top class inter-county midfielder.

While I agree Mayo would be unlikely (not impossible though) to beat Kerry in the business end of the Championship anything can happen before that. e.g. Cork are well capable of taking Kerry in Munster and then maybe a nice trip to Healy Park or even Derry might trip them up. Monaghan nearly did it in Croker last year and the Dubs seem to raise their games for the Kingdom.

There is a reason very very few teams have won a 3 in a row (even Armagh and Tyrone's titles combined didn't come consequetively) and from a selfish Mayo respective it doesn't have to be us that stops them (thankfully).

[Farrandeelin]

We gave Kerry a good game in 05 in the quarter-final remember...

[Lar Naparka]

I've been saying that Mayo folks are very demanding and expect Sam every year. Anything less will be regarded as a failure. That's not realistic and it puts tremendous strain on management and players alike.
It means we get through a fair amount of managers and players feel the hand of history too.
Since O'Mahony first took charge in the late 80s to his second coming now, every manager has left under duress of some sort.
The players in '96 folded up, when 6 points up and twenty minutes to go. Don't forget 2004 and, after a superb, gutsy fightback against Dublin, they cracked again in 2006 against Kerry.
O'Mahony has said he'd give the job three years, so we can't talk of 5 years plans under him.  I think he is developing a good side, with many exciting young players coming through, but he can't work miracles. If he hasn't got a good, say, fullback then he can't invent one!
Mac doesn't appear to be part of the plans for this year, and none of us know why, but you can bet O'Mahony will be blamed if we lose out again and Mac isn't playing.
I should know better but I will be disappointed with a Connacht title or a last eight spot. The same goes for most Mayo followers. It's unreasonable, I know, but it's a fact nonetheless.

[Zulu]

Zulu I find it daft that you are comparing individuals in a team game. While it is nice to appreciate individual talent, it is the sum of the parts that matter.

Of course you can compare individuals in a team game, while football is a team game it is made up of 14 individual battles, show me the team with the dominant FB, CB, MF, CF and FF and I'll show you the team most likely to win. Teams rarely win if they lose most of those positional battles, anyway it is not Mayo's quality vis a vis other teams that is the real point but the fact that JOM is coming under undue pressure IMO. Mayo are definately a top 10 team and if Kerry were beaten by someone else then they'd have as good a chance as anyone else but i still think they are a bit weaker than 4 or so other counties at the moment so getting to and performing well in an AI semi would be a good championship IMO. I hope I'm proven wrong and they go on to win the AI this year but I think if ye give JOM time to get it right he will do as good a job as possible.

[moysider]

Exactly Indiana, Mayo lads on this forum were basically saying JOM was the only man that could deliver Sam and if the CB could get him back he would deliver. MM got a fair deal of criticism during his short spell despite getting an ageing and fairly average squad to the AI. Now JOM is begining to get the same and some Mayo lads here are persisting with the argument that you have players the equal of any other county. Well since Kerry are the bench mark and to win the AI you'll probably have to beat them let's compare Kerry and Mayo in some of the crucial positions.

Full Back: Mark O'Se V any likely Mayo FB - Winner Mark O'Se

Centre Back: Adian O'Mahoney V any likely Mayo CB - Winner A. O'Mahoney

Mid Field: Darragh O'Se V R. McGarrity - Winner D. O'Se

Centre Forward: D. O'Sullivan V A. Dillion - Winner debateable IMO but O'Sullivan would shade it for me

Full Forward: K. Donaghy V AOM - Winner Donaghy, though I think AOM is a decent league player

Scorer in chief: Gooch V C. Mort - Winner Gooch

Bench: Kerry V Mayo - Winner Kerry (by a country mile)

If JOM can get this Mayo team to beat this Kerry team in a do or die championship match he is a footballing genius. In addition some of you are using his inability to solve the FB/CB problem as a stick to beat him with, yet I haven't seen any of you come up with a concensus player for either posistion. If they are not there then they are not there and no coach can produce what's not there. Hound him out if you want lads but you'll only be doing the same with the guy who replaces him a year or two later. You have a Mayo man with a proven track record give him time to get the best out of what's available to him and get yer heads out of yer asses because you're at least 2-3 years away from winning Sam, unfortunately.

If you did this test on any team in the country Zulu you d get the same result. Reality is Kerry are streets away ahead everybody else.

[Zulu]

If you did this test on any team in the country Zulu you d get the same result. Reality is Kerry are streets away ahead everybody else.

You're probably right moysider, though I think some county's would fare better than Mayo in those match up's. The point I was making is that it is unfair to expect JOM to deliver an AI this year, if he does Mayo will have certainly enjoyed some overdue luck.

Undue pressure, surely no one should take a job at inter county level if they aren't expecting pressure

I agree ML there is always pressure at IC level but JOM is less than 2 years into his stint and he has delivered AI titles before so I don't think he warrents too much criticism yet. In fact from what I have seen of Mayo they are shaping up quite nicely and should do well in the championship, however unlike many Mayo posters I don't think it would be a disaster if they lost to Galway in the Connacht championship as long as they did well enough in the qualifiers (i.e. got to the semi's). All I'm saying is a teams performance isn't always down to the fralities of the management but rather the players at his disposal and I'd only criticise a manager if I felt he wasn't getting the best out of his players. IMO there is little evidence to suggest this is the case with Mayo under JOM.

[stephenite]

I've said it on here before - Ciaran is probably still the best player in the county. But it's obvious for a while now that he wasn't interested in p[laying inter county this year. Good luck to him in his retirement

[moysider]

I've said it on here before - Ciaran is probably still the best player in the county. But it's obvious for a while now that he wasn't interested in p[laying inter county this year. Good luck to him in his retirement

Exactly. Best of luck to the fella. Fans would love to see him announce a comeback but the reality is if he did come back at this stage he would be on the bench like last year and only introduced when the game was up. He knows that. He would nt be in a pecking order to start unless we got to an unlikely semi final. Not a criticism of managamant, thats the way things work out. The more I think of it now I cant see him back. Elvis has left the building.

[mayo51]

i would agree with most posters that we will not see mcd in a mayo jersey again.he is without doubt the best mayo footballer i have seen tho i have always felt within mayo that there were alot of supporters waiting to pounce on him if he had a bad game.even heard mayo supporters wanting to take him off inthe 2ind half against kerry in 2006 but even tho things were not going well for him he never hid and kept playing to the bitter end .   on another note i am very surprised that ger cafferky is not on the panel as based on his u21 displays i thought he had a good chance of starting against sligo.j.o.m  is  taking alot of unfair critisism on here over mcd as none of us really know what happened behind the scenes tho the one big gripe i have with jom is the dampening down of expectations and he is always moaning about injuries and things like playing 4 away games in the n.f.l as if no other county has problems.despite all the stick maughan has gotten over the years, one thing i will always give him credit for is that when he was appointed in 95 the first thing he said was that he expected to win the all ireland and was not coming up with 3 and 5 year plans like jom

[stephenite]

Those that are giving JOM a hard time on this issue are not being realistic at best or entirely unrearsonable at worst - McD was informed that if he wanted his place on the panel he could have it once he proved he had the required fitness, this minor requirement from management wasn't a problem for James Nallen, who deservedly is named on the panel - John O'Mahony could not be expected to name a 33 year old based on second hand reports of him flying in training and reputation on past performances.

Rosnarun - you've said that Ciaran was available for selection, that is patently not true, if he was available he would have taken himself along to training like James Nallen and everyone else.

That said - there is always the chance we'll see Mac back playing later in the summer, stranger things have happened.

[mannix]

God bless us Stephenite, such an hour of the morning to be posting, and it seems very coherent too.
Insomnia or a mad Mayo fan?

[stephenite]

Just based in a different time zone

[rosnarun]

comparing individual player is a fun excercize but has littleng on the outcome of most matches.
that is where managers come in  a team has to become more than a sum of its parts and that is why Mayo have got to 2 of the last 4 all-irelands. I have often heard the comment mayo played above then selves to get there . But that is what good managers acheive and that is where JOM has failed so badly sofar.
and leaving out you best player just makes the sum that bit smaller in the 1st place

[RedandGreenSniper]

i would agree with most posters that we will not see mcd in a mayo jersey again.he is without doubt the best mayo footballer i have seen tho i have always felt within mayo that there were alot of supporters waiting to pounce on him if he had a bad game.even heard mayo supporters wanting to take him off inthe 2ind half against kerry in 2006 but even tho things were not going well for him he never hid and kept playing to the bitter end .   on another note i am very surprised that ger cafferky is not on the panel as based on his u21 displays i thought he had a good chance of starting against sligo.j.o.m  is  taking alot of unfair critisism on here over mcd as none of us really know what happened behind the scenes tho the one big gripe i have with jom is the dampening down of expectations and he is always moaning about injuries and things like playing 4 away games in the n.f.l as if no other county has problems.despite all the stick maughan has gotten over the years, one thing i will always give him credit for is that when he was appointed in 95 the first thing he said was that he expected to win the all ireland and was not coming up with 3 and 5 year plans like jom

Yeah that's one name I was wondering about today. Surely given the lack of full-back options the under 21 full-back should be in the panel for development purposes at least? Either that or O'Mahony feels he has little to offer at this level. Not sure myself, injuries held him back with the club last year but from reports he really has been shining at Under 21 level.

On the McDonald issue it is hard to imagine him coming back now. When he came back in 2002 (v Tipperary) and in 2004 before the championship he had actually been away from the county team for reasons other than injury. This time it had been stated by JOM that a squad would be picked in advance of championship and McDonald was to aim for that. Whether McD did make himself available and JOM simply opted not to pick him or whether McD is simply not available is debatable. But the bottom line is that the line in the sand has been drawn - this looks like a final panel.

I agree with Lar, daggers will always be out for a Mayo manager if they don't win the All-Ireland. Completely unreasonable and you can understand O'Mahony wanting to dampen expectations. For me a Connacht title is a good year and so would players coming through that look like they can become championship players.
But if Mayo get to Croke Park people will start to get excited, start talking about how anything can happen 'on the day' and even if Mayo deserve to lose a game, the slightest management tactical indiscretion will be scrutinised as if that was the reason we lost. Its crazy when you stand back from it.
When was the last year Mayo fans were reasonably satisfied with a championship campaign and weren't complaining about management at one level or another? Not last year or 2006. 2005 perhaps given how competitive we were against Kerry in the All-Ireland qf after the hammering the previous September. Before that 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001 and 2000 were all marked by despair at our exits. 99 was considered a decent year after beating Galway in Tuam but there is a trend here - as a county we are very hard to please. Naturally an All-Ireland is the target in the long term but we have to be realistic too. We have to know when we simply weren't good enough and that hasn't been the case. It makes getting to our Nirvana all the more difficult imho

[stephenite]

Rosnarun - can you confirm if O'Mahoney left him out or because Ciaran didn't attend the training match that others had to attend? If he attended and was left out it's a different story to him not being considered because he didn't make himself available for selection, JOM can't be blamed if he wasn't making himself available.