GAA must 'reach out' to unionism

[Main Street]

If you cant see, I cant gift you sight.

[SammyG]

If you cant see, I cant gift you sight.

Does that mean you just made the figures up or are you just playing silly buggers?

[Main Street]

"silly buggers"
where do you learn to speak like that?


Starting with this one 

UNINATID: Do you think of yourself as a unionist, a nationalist or neither?

12 surveys over diff years
down to
PROUDIR: How proud are you of being Irish?

[SammyG]

"silly buggers"
where do you learn to speak like that?

Phrase was deliberately chosen to (hopefully) avoid getting a ban/warning for using something stronger.

Starting with this one 

UNINATID: Do you think of yourself as a unionist, a nationalist or neither?

12 surveys over diff years
down to
PROUDIR: How proud are you of being Irish?

Just read those (again as I read them the first time you posted the link) and I still can't see anything like the figures you quoted.

[pintsofguinness]

http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2003/Political_Attitudes/PROUDIR.html

Last table sammy.


No doubt you'll come back giving out about unionists being labeled as protestants or some other nonsense for the next three pages.
And you've the nerve to accuse someone else of playing "silly buggers". 

[SammyG]

http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2003/Political_Attitudes/PROUDIR.html

Last table sammy.


No doubt you'll come back giving out about unionists being labeled as protestants or some other nonsense for the next three pages.
And you've the nerve to accuse someone else of playing "silly buggers". 

So you agree that Main Street invented his figures. Good glad I'm not the only one.


Just to remind you MS said

Most Unionists in the 6 counties don't see themselves as Irish and most have no pride in their Irish identity. Not only not Irish at all, not Irish as a second or even third choice identity.
Those figures are borne out by research/surveys done over the past years.
That's a sad situation. No pride at all in Irish music, Irish culture or Irish sports.

The survey doesn't even ask that question, nevermind providing the answers he claims

4% are very proud of Irish identity and 24% have some pride. Even amongst those, where would Gaelic Games fit in there?  still something to be despised or just about tolerated.

Again neither asked nor answered by the report.

[pintsofguinness]

I don't see any difference in what the survey provides and what main street has said but I can't be bothered getting too bogged down in it.  The GAA have some real problems and have no time for getting wrapped up in silly little arguments with people who have no interest in the GAA and are only intent on twisting words and playing "silly buggers" in an attempt to avoid the real issues. 

So for now, I'll just say "whatever you say".   

[orangeman]

I don't see any difference in what the survey provides and what main street has said but I can't be bothered getting too bogged down in it.  The GAA have some real problems and have no time for getting wrapped up in silly little arguments with people who have no interest in the GAA and are only intent on twisting words and playing "silly buggers" in an attempt to avoid the real issues. 
So for now, I'll just say "whatever you say".   

Exactly, forget about them - they're not worth talking to !

[winsamsoon]

Lads i would agree with pints there are many problems going on in the GAA but sammy you will have to acknowledge that the majority of Unionists are not concerned with gaelic games as they see no connection with themselves or the preservation of the union within it. If i was a Unionists i wouldn't want to be part of the GAA, Simply because it is an organisation structured to strengthen Irish Identity . For some silly reason unionists don't see themselves as Irish and prefer to be called British. I don't get the reasoning behind this. The bottom line is that sure the are some Unionists that are moderate and realise that the GAA is already a part of their culture and want to further embrace it. But there are others who fail to realise that the GAA is ( wheter they like it or not part of their culture) simply because they live on the Island of Ireland whether it be north or south. So to say we need to change certain areas is going about it the wrong way. Issues have to raised but they must firstt understand the complexity of the situation before crying out for change and always being the victim.

[SammyG]

Lads i would agree with pints there are many problems going on in the GAA but sammy you will have to acknowledge that the majority of Unionists are not concerned with gaelic games as they see no connection with themselves or the preservation of the union within it.

Most Unionists (certainly the ones that I know) want the GAA to decide whether it is a sporting/cultural organisation or a political one. If it was purely a sporting/cultural organisation then more Unionists would be interested. I'm not suggesting, for one minute, that you would scrap the political shite one day and have 1 million new members the next day but over time it would happen.

If i was a Unionists i wouldn't want to be part of the GAA, Simply because it is an organisation structured to strengthen Irish Identity . For some silly reason unionists don't see themselves as Irish and prefer to be called British. I don't get the reasoning behind this.

You're missing the point, Unionists are just as Irish as Nationalists but we are also British. The two are not mutually exclusive, any more than being Scottish and British or Welsh and British.

The bottom line is that sure the are some Unionists that are moderate and realise that the GAA is already a part of their culture and want to further embrace it. But there are others who fail to realise that the GAA is ( wheter they like it or not part of their culture) simply because they live on the Island of Ireland whether it be north or south. So to say we need to change certain areas is going about it the wrong way. Issues have to raised but they must firstt understand the complexity of the situation before crying out for change and always being the victim.

I'm sorry but naming clubs and trophies, after people, who spent the last 30 odd years conducting a sectarian 'war', against their fellow Irishmen, isn't part of my culture and I'm sure isn't part of the culture of many Nationalists either.

[lynchbhoy]

GAA is not a political organisation.

Sammy, it would seem the unionists want to veto and cherry pick their way through things, when their majority and power for doing so has gone (and majority diminishing - although I genuinely do not believe that you or your culture are under any actual threat etc...honestly , you will be 'embraced' way more than you would believe even from northern republicans).

In time all will be forgotton and the likes of modern day Irish and unionist warmongers will be not hated by either side - in the way that O'Connell, Wolfe Tone, O'brien, Emmett, Pearse, Connolly, collins, Develara etc are now seen as historical 'heores' while being
of differing religious faiths.
time will heal and our differences will long be forgotten - as the above example demonstrates what heppens with the passing of time.

[winsamsoon]

No sammy you ask most unionists are they Irish and they will say no way. As i have already said Unionism and Nationalism are completly in opposition to each other, speaking in ideological terms.Unionism would not exist without the preservation of the Union. The Union comes from Britain but it is difficult to have dual nationality as you are claiming. If you ask a scottish person what their nationality is they will say scottish. A Unionist in our part of the country would claim they were british straight away. Here lies the difference of mindsets. The GAA is a sporting organisation based on promoting Irish culture and it recognises the 32 county status. These are the terms under which the organisation exist. This wasn't set up as any political statement or with any hidden agenda. It is clear that is what the organisation is and will remain. The GAA is non politcal but there are things in our society that are so political that they overlap with the GAA. Ie GAA members also being members of the IRA. It' s the same as rugby fans being members of the LVF or loyalist flute bands. The GAA cannot be responsible for this any more so than rugby. Rugby is a foreign sport to Ireland the GAA is not. The GAA have, rightfully so named clubs and grounds after certain individuals that were influential in Irish society. Again this wasn't done for any hidden reason only to remember and respect the the time these people put into the GAA. Face up to reality and understand that people can exist in the same society with differences. Everything doesn't have to be rosy in the garden to move forward.  We can exist side by side with different ideologies as long as we are grown up and don't always search for negatives in life.

[SammyG]

No sammy you ask most unionists are they Irish and they will say no way.

Sorry but that is nonsense.

As i have already said Unionism and Nationalism are completly in opposition to each other, speaking in ideological terms.Unionism would not exist without the preservation of the Union. The Union comes from Britain but it is difficult to have dual nationality as you are claiming.[/quote]
I have never claimed dual nationality.

If you ask a scottish person what their nationality is they will say scottish.

Well they'd be talking nonsense as there is no such thing nationality as Scottish (and I doubt any would actually say it). Their nationality is British but their identity is Scottish.

A Unionist in our part of the country would claim they were british straight away.

I've no idea what that means.

Here lies the difference of mindsets. The GAA is a sporting organisation based on promoting Irish culture and it recognises the 32 county status. These are the terms under which the organisation exist. This wasn't set up as any political statement or with any hidden agenda. It is clear that is what the organisation is and will remain.

The GAA's Official Guide says different.

The GAA is non politcal

Are you having a laugh?

but there are things in our society that are so political that they overlap with the GAA. Ie GAA members also being members of the IRA. [/qIt' s the same as rugby fans being members of the LVF or loyalist flute bands. The GAA cannot be responsible for this any more so than rugby. Rugby is a foreign sport to Ireland the GAA is not.

Firstly why is rugby any more or less 'foreign' than the GAA and secondly the first time that a Billy Wright Rugby Club are founded I'll criticise them as well (but this has never and would never happen).

The GAA have, rightfully so named clubs and grounds after certain individuals that were influential in Irish society.

In what way were Martin and Gerard Harte 'influential in Irish society'?

Again this wasn't done for any hidden reason only to remember and respect the the time these people put into the GAA.

Absolute nonsense, there are thousands of people who put time and effort into the GAA but strangely the only ones that get 'remembered' are sectarian murderers.

Face up to reality and understand that people can exist in the same society with differences. Everything doesn't have to be rosy in the garden to move forward.  We can exist side by side with different ideologies as long as we are grown up and don't always search for negatives in life.

Totally agree and have never said anything different.

[AZOffaly]

Absolute nonsense, there are thousands of people who put time and effort into the GAA but strangely the only ones that get 'remembered' are sectarian murderers.

Sammy, cop on. You always jump down the throat of lads slating OWC who haven't the full 'facts', so fo you to say something like that is very hard to take. Was Archbishop Croke a sectarian murderer? Cop on.

[SammyG]

Absolute nonsense, there are thousands of people who put time and effort into the GAA but strangely the only ones that get 'remembered' are sectarian murderers.

Sammy, cop on. You always jump down the throat of lads slating OWC who haven't the full 'facts', so fo you to say something like that is very hard to take. Was Archbishop Croke a sectarian murderer? Cop on.

Sorry, I meant currently, rather than historically.