Armagh Vs Dorty Dubs

[INDIANA]

i disagree mackers - the level of abuse that lad got last year i thought went beyond the pale. in fact it was so bad at times the website could easily have been shut down. I'm glad for the guy -he's really given the two fingers to his "so called fans" in the best way possible and more power to him. He's an extremely good footballer and how anyone thought he wasn't up to that standard musn't know much about gaelic Football.
I'm simply saying mackers- that clarke and mc donnell will never get that sort of room against a good team. Longford ripped us asunder as well in the o byrne cup final. Dublin's full back line has been shaky all year- the chickens came home to roost yesterday and now we face into a championship with more problems then we've had in a long time- with so many regulars out of form. If we can't perform in div 2 -we haven't a prayer against the likes of kerry.
I was staggered by kerry watching the re-run- galway are a good side- but i've rarely seen such a ritual demolition by a team that is still missing 3-4 of its regualr team- a frigtening prospect for the rest of us.

[corn02]

Smokin Joe, have to agree. I thought P Kernan was very poor yesterday and as I already stated, proper ball in would have left him in big trouble.

Holylandsniper, have to disagree with your point about SK defending. Thought he was excellent in that regard yesterday and the point in which he broke up play in his own half and managed to get up the field and put over was typical of his display yesterday.

[brokencrossbar1]

Didn't see the game but I am delighted for Stephen that he is finally being appreciated for what he can do.  I have always defended him on here nad that is not just because he is a team mate(sorry former )  He is a damn fine footballer and now he has been gioven time to develop in theb team he is showing his true form.  His vision and passing is excellent and despite what people on here say he works hard tracking back.  He may not win loads of break ball but he will filed ball that comes to him and in fairness MOR wins enough break ball for 2 men!  The difference in the treatment that was dished out to him and that which is being meted on Tony is unreal.  Some people find it hard to see the big picture about things like this and get caught up in petty club/personality bickerings that in my view make them look stupid in the long run.

[his holiness nb]

Fair play to Armagh, the better side won without a doubt.
There where some awfully dubious decisions going against the Dubs (a goal and 3pts I counted due to bad decisions) and the red card. Should have been one off each team or none. But despite that, the ref certainly didnt make 9 points of a difference, Armagh fully deserved it.

And good hosts too!

[Throw ball]

I think yesterdays match was the first proper football match I have seen in the league this year. The sun was shining and the ground firming up meaning there was less petty fouls. The referee blew less frees than I saw in previous games (although I do not know how he came to some decisions) which let a game develop. Although Dublin had an inexperienced full back line they tried to use Collie Moran as a sweeper to cover for this with some success. At the time I felt Armagh were then playing into Dublin's hands with there attacking play, however, the turnovers and breakball won by Armagh would suggest this was not the case. Although Armagh won well I thought MOR was the only player that played as well as he can (as he has done all year). We also had a number of players who were well below par. Our full back line came under alot of pressure without a covering defender but despite reservations about a couple of them they did improve as the game went on. Although we might not win anything this year we can see progress which will hopefully let us win something in the future. I am now just hoping someone can beat Kerry - as long as it is not Tyrone!!

[Jinxy]

Finally, I thought it very cute of a Meath man to give Armagh all the motivation they needed prior to a game with the Dubs with his post match comments last week!

I hope you're not suggesting the "white flag" comment was anything more sinister than an honest assessment by Coyler. 

[Imposerous]

I agree with a lot of what has been said here.  For me the reasons why we played so well against Roscommon (excepting the opposition's ability), was that we were putting excellent ball into the forward.  We did that today again, and it is the reason why I'd have Stephen and Tony Kernan start: they have vision and creativity and can weight the right kind of crisp pass the forward line needs.

Tony K covers a lot of ground and drags his marker with him creating a lot of space.  I don't think these qualities should be overlooked in the overall contribution he can make. 

It's because of these two that the forward line as a whole as looked a lot more cohesive as a unit.

I have criticised Martin O'Rourke in the past, but he has proved that he is indispensable.  Fantastic performance. But he needs creative movement to benefit from the balls he wins for frees (some dubiously won ) and break ball.  Again, back to the Kernans.

While P McKeever was good, the Dublin game was the type of physical game that needed his presence.  Some of his passing was good, but some didn't quite come off (but you could see what he was attempting) and a few times I thought he took the wrong option or wasn't quick enough to release.  But he had a very good game.  As someone said, we'll see if he is as effective next day.

Midfield: I had stated before that this is the game I would have played McGrane in for his physicality.  He was cleaned out of it, but put himself about well.  He had an awful game against Meath.  Totally obliterated, fouled his man, from which came the first Meath goal, and lobbed big high punts on top of McDonnell and Clarke.  It harked back to the old days and wasn't working.  Against Dublin he off-loaded the ball to supporting runners rather than aimless punts.  Leave the distribution to others.
Vernon was clearly rattled by his fumbled solo and missed score.  He was nervous and it showed in that I have seen him take on people more in similar circumstances to today, but he looked for the cross field pass.  Only in the second half did we see what he can offer – those powerful surging runs.  He can get into scoring positions (thought one of his second half shots did curl in for a score) or, because he is so strong and hard to dispossess, he can win frees in the scoring zone. He does not have the height for intercounty midfield.  In fact we have no towering midfielders apart from Loughran and McKenna, but I don't think we'll see either of them this year.

Always been a fan of A O'Rourke.  Cool, composed, intelligent, strong, and great passing.  A bit more pace and he'd be the one of the best CHBs around.
I thought it was quite a good defensive display from Aaron, despite what his man did from play, but he comes into his own strutting forward with the ball at full tilt, with the poise of a ballerina (or was that Enda in the tights? ).
C McKeever.  Brilliant, pretty much as always.  Totally committed footballer. 
With the complementing abilities of our HBs, I'd be hard pressed to name a better HB line in the country, Kerry's possibly.

Full back line.  Donaghy doesn't fail to deliver despite my feelings of uncertainty. 
Finn Mo, I'm afraid doesn't do it for me, even though he has performed reasonably over the campaign.  Paul Kernan, tries hard but I think we have better.
How would a full back line of Mallon,  Bellew and Donaghy work.  Is it too late for young Paul McKeown to get a run out?  I'd have him way before Moriarty or Kernan.

In any case, our performances will depend on the kind of game we play.  We have the players, but the movement and passing are key.  Is that too simple?

[mackers]

Indiana, BC1 has hit the nail on the head, most of his biggest detractors on the site were from rival clubs and let their prejudices get in the way. Most supporters would have seen the football that he had in him but he was playing no club football through no fault of his own (through injuries and being on the county panel). He was being played on the county team when he couldn't do himself justice and he was being left open to the "critics" who believed it to be nepotism.
On your point on Clarke and McDonnell I would look at it with an Armagh slant, obviously, and say that there aren't many full back lines that could cope with them if they're getting the right quality of ball (remember these boys have done it against the Kerrys of this world). Against Meath in Navan we were kicking high aimless ball on top of them and Darren Fay, that ain't going to work. We have to move away from that as they are being surrounded by backs expecting it. Against yourselves and Roscommon the ball was put in front of them to run onto.

I think what our new manager is doing, to be fair to him, is trying to move us on from Kernan's "Plan A" which served us well in the past but teams have worked it out.

Throwball, you deserted us yesterday, where you over with the snobby boys in the stand?

Jinxy, from what I know of Meath men, they don't say something like that without good reason.

[Hound]

Fair play to Armagh, the better side won without a doubt.
There where some awfully dubious decisions going against the Dubs (a goal and 3pts I counted due to bad decisions) and the red card. Should have been one off each team or none. But despite that, the ref certainly didnt make 9 points of a difference, Armagh fully deserved it.

And good hosts too!

An analysis of the individual performances on the Dublin team would be appreciated HHNB, if you get a chance

[Throw ball]

No Mackers never been a snob. Was up about the 14 at the top goals as I had the young fella with me and he could not see further down. The aul fella even made it as well. No golf yesterday!

[Jinxy]

I hope to God no one accuses the Dubs of waving the white flag in Crossmaglen.

[winsamsoon]

I can tell you something now Indianna if Armagh were paired with Kerry in the All Ireland series there would be no 8 points in it. Championship football is a different animal. There would be no team in the country beat Armagh  or Dublin for that matter by 8 points. No matter how well a team are playing in the league. It is proven that certain teams don't want to peek to soon so they have a mediocre league campaign and go on to do well in the championship. I don't believe Armagh will win an All Ireland this year but they will be tough enough to beat and you can rest assured any team that draws them will not be taking them lightly. When championship comes around then the dollars will go down.

[Sandy Hill]

All-Ireland SFC 2008  Outright Betting -- Top contenders according to Paddy Power
Kerry  11 - 8   
Dublin  7 - 2   
Tyrone  8 - 1   
Cork  12 - 1   
Galway  12 - 1   
Mayo  14 - 1   
Monaghan  20 - 1   
Armagh  20 - 1 
Derry  20 - 1   
Meath  25 - 1   
Donegal  28 - 1   

Obviously Monaghan's draw and Armagh's hammering of Dublin don't cut much ice with Paddy Power!

[orangeman]

All-Ireland SFC 2008  Outright Betting -- Top contenders according to Paddy Power
Kerry  11 - 8   
Dublin  7 - 2   
Tyrone  8 - 1   
Cork  12 - 1   
Galway  12 - 1   
Mayo  14 - 1   
Monaghan  20 - 1   
Armagh  20 - 1 
Derry  20 - 1   
Meath  25 - 1   
Donegal  28 - 1   

Obviously Monaghan's draw and Armagh's hammering of Dublin don't cut much ice with Paddy Power!

[/b]


Nor does it seem that Derry have won many friends in the bookmaking fraternity either - available at a very generous 20-1 !

I wonder would Paddy Power lay me 20's on the NFL final with Kerry - I'd have a  bit of that if they did !

[heffo]

All-Ireland SFC 2008  Outright Betting -- Top contenders according to Paddy Power
Kerry  11 - 8   
Dublin  7 - 2   
Tyrone  8 - 1   
Cork  12 - 1   
Galway  12 - 1   
Mayo  14 - 1   
Monaghan  20 - 1   
Armagh  20 - 1 
Derry  20 - 1   
Meath  25 - 1   
Donegal  28 - 1   

Obviously Monaghan's draw and Armagh's hammering of Dublin don't cut much ice with Paddy Power!

I would imagine those odd's are influenced more by the amount of money layed on Dublin than any other reason..

Armagh were well worth their win yesterday, McDonnell & Clarke looked very strong.