Will anyone inn Fianna Fail shout stop?

[Zapatista]

This disgusts me. I am a Republican and as a Republican I believe this corruption and lack of democracy must be crushed and replaced with Republicanism.

Well, Zap, I too am a Republican but the name of Bob McCartney keeps coming to mind. There was an incident in Ongar, on the west side of Dublin that concerns me also and it is being held as the cause of Sinn Fein's poor showing in the last general election.

Which strand of Republicanism would do the "taking over?" I don't think I could go down that road with you. Anyone talking about the army intervening should bear in mind the fact that army generals the world over tend to stay on in power, long after the supposed reason for their taking over has disappeared.
In the meantime Alan Mahon's tribunal has been working away and is uncovering more unsavoury revelations all the time. If calls for the Gardai, or the CAB or the Revenue Commissioners to intervene had been heeded, when this thread was started, we would never have heard of Grainne Carruth.
The Tribunal would have been put in abeyance and might never resume its work. In the meantime, any move against Bertie would have been met by probably the best legal defense in the country and might not have succeeded in any event.
Did any of you ever stop to consider that Bertie might be wishing right now for such an intervention?
I certainly take no pleasure on seeing him in the mess that he is in but democracy is working and I'd like to see the process continued to a legal conclusion.

I think you mean Rafferty? This is not being held as the reason SF did bad in the election.

I mean the President should take charge or appoint a interim leader. The strand of Republicanism I would like to see take over would be the strand determined by new elections.

Lads, I'm not that stupid, I know this is never going to  happen. I am not sure if I would entrirely support it either but I do like to discuss it.

[Zapatista]

We put up with more shit than the Pakistani's do. Western corruption is no better than eastern or African corruption no matter who says it is.

That level of ignorance and stupidity saddens me - comparing contemparary Irish society to the conditions that people in these countries suffer dispalys an astounding lack of knowledge - go away and do a bit of reading before making further comments as to what other countries are better off than us.

Take the case of General Musharraf  (sp?) who led the army coup in Pakistan about 8 years ago, he's still in power and in that time he suspended the judicary and placed the chief justice under house arrest, closed down newspapers and TV stations, the leader of the opposition party in the lead up to the recent elections, Bhutto, was murdered. Are you seriously suggesting this is the sort of model we should follow?

As for the rest of your comments about republicanism saving Ireland - well God help us all if that occurs as that particular bunch of chavs and pikeys couldn't save shit and I'd far rather a corrupt Bertir Ahern leading the country than anyone that currently represent "republicanism". What strand of republicanism are you suggesting takes over?

Democracy has to run it's course and any deviation from that course is dangerous in the extreme - Bertie Ahern last year was given a significant mandate by the people of Ireland, it's not republicanism's job to distort the wishes of the majority in this country, they've tired that before and it didn't work so what makes you think it will work now?

To finish, the army would have no interest in taking any part in something like this, unless of course you're referring to a different 'private' army?

I am not comparing conditions but comparing the attitude towards corruption. I can't believe you are advising me to go and do a bit of reading. If you have a problem with what I say then challenge what I say and win the arguement. Telling me to go do a bit of reading is a non arguement. Should I read the Independant or the Sun? Should I read the New Testament or the Koran? Perhaps I should read Gandi or Mein Kemph? If you put forward a good arguement I might agree with you.

At no point did I suggest we should follow the Pakistan model. I said there is no difference between eastern, western or African corruption. Like I said Stephenite, challenge what I say if you disagree with it. You are arguing points you created yourself.

If you want I can give you examples of friends and supporters of FF being appointed to high powerd jobs (eg Eoghan Harris), how the media have been controlled by FF (e.g Cowen and his meeting with O'Rielly or RTE and Beverly Cooper Flynns canceled debt) and I can even give you examples of how justice and the Gardai is used for their purposes (eg. Frank Conolly or Rossport). I am not saying it's better in Pakistan but I am saying corruption is wrong everywhere.

You attack me for my Republicanism then ask which strand of Republicanism am I suggesting. Please don't sterotype me. My views are mine alone and not that of any strand.

His mandate was won on perjury and deciet. Like a drug taker in sports is stripped of their victory so should BA be stripped of his. I don't  know why you are adressing me saying they have tried that before. I suggested the President should anchor any move to do it and I don't think she has tried it before.

I agree they would have no interest in it. I also know they should do what they are told. Do you think they are interested in Chad?

Stephenite, I'm not that stupid, I know this is never going to  happen. I am not sure if I would entrirely support it either but I do like to discuss it and want to keep this thread alive too.

[Lar Naparka]

I think you mean Rafferty? This is not being held as the reason SF did bad in the election.

I admit that my memory can let me down at times and I do suffer lapses from time to time. (I'm being deadly serious BTW, no sarcasm intended.)
I think I got the right man: his partner, Brigeen Hagans and his two sisters mounted an international campaign to try and 'out' the identity of his killers.
Like my old Irish teacher, there are Republicans, whose integrity I would never question. Their political ideas might need a bit of fine-tuning I'd say but their personal integrity is beyond reproach.
It's the other elements within the broad movement that cause my concern.
There was a case in Ongar, in the Mulhuddart area of Dublin, that was quite similar to the one I mentioned above and political analysts do say that Sinn Fein's poor election showing was partly caused by reaction to both events.
A TV3 documentary ( last night I think) highlighted Provo money laundering and drug dealing in the South Armagh area.
This strand of "Republicanism" is what worries me.

[Zapatista]

I think you mean Rafferty? This is not being held as the reason SF did bad in the election.

I admit that my memory can let me down at times and I do suffer lapses from time to time. (I'm being deadly serious BTW, no sarcasm intended.)
I think I got the right man: his partner, Brigeen Hagans and his two sisters mounted an international campaign to try and 'out' the identity of his killers.
Like my old Irish teacher, there are Republicans, whose integrity I would never question. Their political ideas might need a bit of fine-tuning I'd say but their personal integrity is beyond reproach.
It's the other elements within the broad movement that cause my concern.
There was a case in Ongar, in the Mulhuddart area of Dublin, that was quite similar to the one I mentioned above and political analysts do say that Sinn Fein's poor election showing was partly caused by reaction to both events.
A TV3 documentary ( last night I think) highlighted Provo money laundering and drug dealing in the South Armagh area.
This strand of "Republicanism" is what worries me.

I live in the Mulhuddart ward (Dublin West) Lar and I think you are talking about Rafferty. His sister, Mrs Urzell (I think thats the correct spelling) did launch a major campaign against SF similar to that of McCartney in Belfast. However the campaign was based in Dublin South East and focused on the SF candidate in that area. Mrs Uzell ran in the election and had a very poor vote on an anti-SF ticket, she is now the FG candidate for the area (DSE) and her campaign was funded and supported by FG. It is now a non issue. The SF candidate in the area had no hope of being elected but did improve his vote from the previous election. His biggest critic in the area lost his seat, I think his name was M McDowell? 

I agree that that is worrying and I do not defend it at all. However, bad as it is money laundering by anyone is bad. The Irish Times came very close to claiming BA was laundering money through different currencies and bank accounts. If he was then this is equally as worrying as the Provo's doing it.

[deiseach]

Alas, the establishment of a political precedent whereby the President can invoke their right as commander-in-chief to remove the Prime Minister for corruption will not be invoked this time round, thus making the people of Ireland less free than the people of Pakistan, where that right is utilised with impunity. Damn you, Bertie Ahern!

[Leo]

And at last it took Bertie himself to shout stop.
Step up now the spineless and amoral successor ....

[AZOffaly]

Leo, do you honestly believe that Bertie shouted 'Stop' off his own bat? The leading ministers, including Cowen, obviously had a word in his ear about the damage he was doing to the party, and gave him the opportunity to step down with dignity and at a time of his own volition. I had always said that he would step down after his address to Congress, and that's the way it panned out.

You are giving Bertie way too much credit, and in the process trying to move your agenda onto someone who hasn't even been mentioned in relation to dodgy dealing, anecdotally or otherwise, apart from smoking dope .

I think this thread should just die.

[his holiness nb]

And at last it took Bertie himself to shout stop.
Step up now the spineless and amoral successor ....

So it wasnt about Bertie at all Leo, it was just an anti FF thing. I dont vote FF, well havent for a while, but heres news for you, the Irish people dont want Enda Kenny in charge. No matter how much you go on about it.

Enda made a right tit of himself yesterday too, in his usual fashion totally misread the mood of the nation over the resignation and then desperately tried to claw back later in the day.
I was cringeing for him.

PR wise, yesterday was a good one for FF and a very bad one for FG.

[Leo]

And at last it took Bertie himself to shout stop.
Step up now the spineless and amoral successor ....

So it wasnt about Bertie at all Leo, it was just an anti FF thing. I dont vote FF, well havent for a while, but heres news for you, the Irish people dont want Enda Kenny in charge. No matter how much you go on about it.

Enda made a right tit of himself yesterday too, in his usual fashion totally misread the mood of the nation over the resignation and then desperately tried to claw back later in the day.
I was cringeing for him.

PR wise, yesterday was a good one for FF and a very bad one for FG.

Sorry, his holiness, you've lost the infallibility gene it seems. Absolutely no where in any post have I ever mentioned FG or Enda Kenny.
Absolutely no way was this thread intended to be anti FF - quite the opposite there was an innocent attempt to smoke out the FF members with moral standards but they let me down.

And yesterday was anything but a good ay for FF but it was a good day for the country.
My parting thought is again wistful and over-optimistic that the successor might not be a lackey who unjustifiably supported BA in the face of damning evidence as to his unsuitability in the recnt past.

By the way my first previous first preference election vote was for Dempsey.

[Zapatista]

Almost a year on. Is it now time?

[thejuice]

Mr Cowen indicated last night that serious criminal charges could end up being brought against those involved in the scandals at Anglo Irish Bank.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cowen-dined-privately-with-anglo-bank-chiefs-1644942.html

[An Gaeilgoir]

Mr Cowen indicated last night that serious criminal charges could end up being brought against those involved in the scandals at Anglo Irish Bank.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cowen-dined-privately-with-anglo-bank-chiefs-1644942.html

This story is a bit of a non stroy to be honest, all political party members attend these PRIVATE functions. I think this story is more a reflection of the dumbing down of the indo that anything else. Even FG admitted this morning on Morning Ireland that is was no big deal.

[Zapatista]

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/judge-warns-cowens-mate-1642055.html

THE Taoiseach's former general election running mate and a former Offaly GAA football manager have been warned by a High Court judge they must provide sworn answers to questions put to them in a legal dispute over multi-million euro "secret profits" allegedly made by them from a number of land deals.

[Donagh]

Frank Fahey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Fahey) has been named on another forum as one of the golden ten. That's one bastard who deserves a little bit of comeuppance.

[muppet]

Frank Fahey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Fahey) has been named on another forum as one of the golden ten. That's one b**tard who deserves a little bit of comeuppance.

Has he been officially named or is it still rumours?