Martin McGuinness slam TV Soaps (Not Neighbours!)

[stephenite]

That's quite pathetic EG, shows you up as a resentful individual unwilling to let go and move on.

In fairness, if he is all that, he's hardly alone around here.

Princess Anne, according to some, shouldn't set foot in Croke Park.

And if it were some notorious loyalist figure pontificating on drinking and pubs in soaps, there'd be plenty of posts similar to Evil Genius's comments on McGuinness.

Undoubtedly true J70 that if it was the other way around we'd still be having this conversation, I'd like to think that my comments would apply in that situation also.

I didn't comment on the Princess Anne thread because, as Deiseach pointed out, it is just another 'first' for those that were against the opening up of Croke Park to complain about, even if their views are equally as resentful and represent an unwillingness to move on.

[Mickey Linden]

I for one think it makes a pleasant change to see McGuiness and Paisley discussing real issues such as drug/alcohol abuse and suicide prevention. Surely this can only be a good thing even if it only highlights the issue once again. It is a far cry from a few years ago when alll they could do was bicker over petty issues and refuse to budge on anything

[Evil Genius]

Well, I must say that I'm glad at least some posters - Minder, tyssam5, J70 - saw my point, which was that TV does not create society, it reflects it, so there's little point in blaming TV for all of societys' ills. After all, there was alcohol abuse in Ireland long before there was ever Eastenders or Coronation Street.

As for my comment on McGuinness himself and his own example, how many children in Ireland have suffered on account of the actions of him and his comrades, whether by being killed, orphaned, maimed; or driven to drink, drugs or suicide by the pressures of growing up in the Troubles; or by being disabled by "punishment" squads for some minor "offence"; or by being persuaded to join their local unit then rotting in jail for years for a cause they came to hate? As far as I see it, they'd all have been a hell of a sight better off if they'd sat at home watching soaps, than being out on the streets under the influence of people like him. And btw, when I say "people like him", I make no distinction between republican paramilitaries and their loyalist [sic] counterparts.

Or, to put it into stark reality, people might consider those of the 12(?) children of Jean McConville who have succumbed to alcohol and drug abuse, depression or ill health, and ask themselves whether it was TV which is responsible for their present plight, or the sight of Martin's chums dragging their mother away in the middle of the night, never to be seen again?

And for those who sneer about my my inability or unwillingness to "move on", moving on does not demand that one must either forget or deny; instead, I don't see how you can move on to a new future if you ignore where you've come from?

P.S. Those second two photographs were of the Enniskillen Massacre, something which I'll remember long after I've forgotten who shot Dirty Den...

[An Fear Rua]

That Ross Kemp is a w**ker too, it was bad enough when he was promoting booze in the vic, but then...

[full back]

EG, catch a f**king grip of yourself & try not to turn this thread into a bickering match.

As for wee Marty, its all well & good mentioning this but surely the problem is much more deep rooted.
It smacks of deflecting the problem onto something else. I mean much of the problems in todays society would be exactly the same if there was no pubs in any of the soaps on tv. Communities are being ruined, not because of people sitting in pubs having a few beers but because of underage drinking which leads to anti-social behaviour

[his holiness nb]

And for those who sneer about my my inability or unwillingness to "move on", moving on does not demand that one must either forget or deny; instead, I don't see how you can move on to a new future if you ignore where you've come from?

Excellent point EG, funny though how many times nationalists have made that same argument when Unionists were telling them to "move on" for daring to mention ills of the past.
I suppose it depends which incidents it suits you to remember.

[Evil Genius]

EG, catch a f**king grip of yourself & try not to turn this thread into a bickering match.

Someone posted an article, I expressed an opinion, some people objected, I replied in order to justify my opinion (which people may take or leave). You may call this "bickering", but I prefer to call it "discussion". As in 'General Discussion'

As for wee Marty, its all well & good mentioning this but surely the problem is much more deep rooted.
It smacks of deflecting the problem onto something else. I mean much of the problems in todays society would be exactly the same if there was no pubs in any of the soaps on tv. Communities are being ruined, not because of people sitting in pubs having a few beers but because of underage drinking which leads to anti-social behaviour

I wouldn't disagree with a word of that. But I was merely adding the somewhat obvious truth that in NI at least, many young peoples lives have also been ruined by 30 years of the Troubles, for which McGuinness must bear his share of responsibility.

"Physician Heal Thyself"  

[stephenite]

And for those who sneer about my my inability or unwillingness to "move on", moving on does not demand that one must either forget or deny; instead, I don't see how you can move on to a new future if you ignore where you've come from?

My point is that there are always opportunities to bring up the past in the correct context - my own belief is that if one was to move onto a new future they should embrace the "good news" stories like this, celebrate the fact that a new page has been turned and politicians in the North are turning their attention to general problems in society.

I'd have no problem with your comments if it was in the relevant context.

You constantly use every opportunity to drag up the past - thus my comment about your undying resentment

[full back]

Someone posted an article, I expressed an opinion, some people objected, I replied in order to justify my opinion (which people may take or leave). You may call this "bickering", but I prefer to call it "discussion". As in 'General Discussion'

Bollix
If a former loyalist had said something similar would you have posted pictures about loyalist atrocities?

[his holiness nb]

But I was merely adding the somewhat obvious truth that in NI at least, many young peoples lives have also been ruined by 30 years of the Troubles, for which McGuinness must bear his share of responsibility.

EG, we are well aware of Martins history, you know this, it has been pointed out a hundred times before.

This was a topic about soap operas and drinking culture. You changed the subject deliberately.

I thought we were moving on, but if every single time McGuinness discusses a non troubles related problem you throw this back at him, its quite clear we have a long way to go 

[Evil Genius]

And for those who sneer about my my inability or unwillingness to "move on", moving on does not demand that one must either forget or deny; instead, I don't see how you can move on to a new future if you ignore where you've come from?

Excellent point EG, funny though how many times nationalists have made that same argument when Unionists were telling them to "move on" for daring to mention ills of the past.
I suppose it depends which incidents it suits you to remember.

You misrepresent me. If anyone could be bothered to read through my posts (not something I would wish upon even my enemies!), they would see I have been entirely consistent in my approach to the dilemma of remembering the past versus moving on.

Namely, I have never been impressed by those who allow their worldview to be determined by (their interpretation of) events which have long since passed into history. It serves no good purpose (imo) for people to try to claim "credit" on account of events from history which they admire, or to try to "blame" others on account of events which they decry.

Rather, people should be made to account for their  actions in the here and now. Which is where McGuinness et al come in. We can argue all we like about Wolfe Tone or King Billy, Edward Carson or Padraig Pearse and it will get us precisely nowhere. Instead I am much more concerned with calling today's  players to account, hence my comments on McGuinnesses' contribution to the present debate.

But keep trying. I'm sure you'll trip me up sooner or later! Mind you, if you do, I hope I don't feel compelled to "take my ball back" and return to the comfort of posting on OWC...

[The Watcher Pat]

Well, I must say that I'm glad at least some posters - Minder, tyssam5, J70 - saw my point, which was that TV does not create society, it reflects it, so there's little point in blaming TV for all of societys' ills. After all, there was alcohol abuse in Ireland long before there was ever Eastenders or Coronation Street.

As for my comment on McGuinness himself and his own example, how many children in Ireland have suffered on account of the actions of him and his comrades, whether by being killed, orphaned, maimed; or driven to drink, drugs or suicide by the pressures of growing up in the Troubles; or by being disabled by "punishment" squads for some minor "offence"; or by being persuaded to join their local unit then rotting in jail for years for a cause they came to hate? As far as I see it, they'd all have been a hell of a sight better off if they'd sat at home watching soaps, than being out on the streets under the influence of people like him. And btw, when I say "people like him", I make no distinction between republican paramilitaries and their loyalist [sic] counterparts.

Or, to put it into stark reality, people might consider those of the 12(?) children of Jean McConville who have succumbed to alcohol and drug abuse, depression or ill health, and ask themselves whether it was TV which is responsible for their present plight, or the sight of Martin's chums dragging their mother away in the middle of the night, never to be seen again?

And for those who sneer about my my inability or unwillingness to "move on", moving on does not demand that one must either forget or deny; instead, I don't see how you can move on to a new future if you ignore where you've come from?

P.S. Those second two photographs were of the Enniskillen Massacre, something which I'll remember long after I've forgotten who shot Dirty Den...

Catch a grip EG you only succeeded to turn another innocent thread into a political slanging match...I have bad memories of the troubles that I could throw up into peoples faces at every opportunity but I prefer to look to the future.....

[Evil Genius]

This was a topic about soap operas and drinking culture. You changed the subject deliberately.

I did not change the subject. Instead, I referred to an aspect of the subject which I believe to be much more pertinent; namely that the actions of prominent politicians, community leaders and activists of one sort or another, are actually much more influential in how young people behave and grow up than TV soap operas, which reflect society rather than shape it.

McGuinness seems to have overlooked that. I wonder why?  

[his holiness nb]

You misrepresent me. If anyone could be bothered to read through my posts (not something I would wish upon even my enemies!), they would see I have been entirely consistent in my approach to the dilemma of remembering the past versus moving on.

Namely, I have never been impressed by those who allow their worldview to be determined by (their interpretation of) events which have long since passed into history. It serves no good purpose (imo) for people to try to claim "credit" on account of events from history which they admire, or to try to "blame" others on account of events which they decry.

Rather, people should be made to account for their  actions in the here and now. Which is where McGuinness et al come in. We can argue all we like about Wolfe Tone or King Billy, Edward Carson or Padraig Pearse and it will get us precisely nowhere. Instead I am much more concerned with calling today's  players to account, hence my comments on McGuinnesses' contribution to the present debate.

Blah blah blah, heard it all before EG, why arent you talking about the soap operas. Or is it an attention thing.

Mind you, if you do, I hope I don't feel compelled to "take my ball back" and return to the comfort of posting on OWC...

Are you still bitching about me not posting on OWC anymore? f**k sake EG, I didnt like the site, get over it.

[Evil Genius]

Catch a grip EG you only succeeded to turn another innocent thread into a political slanging match...I have bad memories of the troubles that I could throw up into peoples faces at every opportunity but I prefer to look to the future.....

OK, you're quite right. The real reason why so many of our children today are getting into trouble with drink and drugs etc is because of the goings on in the Queen Vic and The Rovers Return. Nothing whatever to do with the example set by our Lords and Masters.

Sorted.