Sharia law in UK ' unavoidable'

[Diet Coke]

Sharia law in UK ' unavoidable'
 
Rowan Williams 
The adoption of some aspects of Islamic sharia law in the UK 'seems unavoidable', the Archbishop of Canterbury has said.

Dr Rowan Williams said there was a place for finding a 'constructive accommodation' in areas such as marriage - allowing Muslim women to avoid western divorce proceedings.

Other religions enjoyed such tolerance of their own laws, he pointed out, but stressed that it could never be allowed to take precedence over an individual's rights as a citizen.

He said it would also require a change in perception of what sharia involved beyond the 'inhumanity' of extreme punishments and attitudes to women seen in some Islamic states.

Dr Williams said: 'It seems unavoidable and, as a matter of fact, certain conditions of sharia are already recognised in our society and under our law, so it is not as if we are bringing in an alien and rival system.

'We already have in this country a number of situations in which the internal law of religious communities is recognised by the law of the land as justifying conscientious objections in certain circumstances.'

He added: 'There is a place for finding what would be a constructive accommodation with some aspects of Muslim law as we already do with aspects of other kinds of religious law.

'It would be quite wrong to say that we could ever license a system of law for some community which gave people no right of appeal, no way of exercising the rights that are guaranteed to them as citizens in general.

'But there are ways of looking at marital disputes, for example, which provide an alternative to the divorce courts as we understand them.

'In some cultural and religious settings they would seem more appropriate.'

He said people needed to look at Islamic law 'with a clear eye and not imagine, either, that we know exactly what we mean by sharia and just associate it with ... Saudi Arabia, or whatever.

'Nobody in their right mind would want to see in this country the kind of inhumanity that has sometimes been associated with the practice of the law in some Islamic states: the extreme punishments, the attitudes to women.'

There were questions about how it interacted with human rights, he said.

'But I do not think we should instantly spring to the conclusion that the whole of that world of jurisprudence and practice is somehow monstrously incompatible with human rights just because it doesn't immediately fit with how we understand it.'

The "teddy-bears" are f****d now.

[deiseach]

Nay, nay and thrice nay. Equality before the law is the most important element of society in the developed world - democracy is secondary, a safeguard for the application of the rule of law. No serious politician will agree to this, which means it won't happen, and thank God (pun unintended) for that

[Pangurban]

Take a look at the adverts at the top of this page. Are you still sure it wont happen

[gerry]

It's not all bad news if Sharia Law is adopted in Britain.

Ok so you can't go out boozing or gambling but,

At least you can still get stoned.

[deiseach]

Take a look at the adverts at the top of this page. Are you still sure it wont happen

T4 Personal Training?

No politician has said they want it to happen, so who do you vote for if you want it to happen? It won't happen.

The most infuriating aspect of Archbishop Williams' comments is that we have to endure people quoting him as proof that it's just around the corner.

[carnaross]

This lunatic has opened a whole can of worms with these ridiculous comments, which will cause no end of arguments. I don't believe for one second there'll be any such adoption (unless Britain becomes a muslim country with a majority in the British Parliament). All that will happen will be lots of rhetoric and, hopefully, a resignation of one very highly-placed religious leader who should stick to what he's supposed to.

[Square Ball]

I have no idea about what Sharia is but I found this:

What is Sharia?

Sharia law is Islam's legal system. It is derived from both the Koran, as the word of God, the example of the life of the prophet Muhammad, and fatwas - the rulings of Islamic scholars. .

But Sharia differs in one very important and significant way to the legal traditions of the Western world: it governs, or at least informs, every aspect of the life of a Muslim.

What does it cover?

Western law confines itself largely to matters relating to crime, contract, civil relationships and individual rights.

Sharia is however concerned with more. Sharia rulings have been developed to help Muslims understand how they should lead every aspect of their lives according to God's wishes.

What does this mean in practice?

All sorts of things in daily life. For example, many young Muslims ask themselves what they should do if colleagues invite them to the pub after work or college.

Many people would of course make up their own mind about the appropriate course of action. But others may turn to a Sharia scholar for advice.

So Sharia covers a lot of very mundane and banal daily issues where observant Muslims want to ensure they act within the legal framework of their faith.

So how are rulings made?

Like any legal system, Sharia is complex and its practice is entirely reliant on the quality and training of experts.

There are different schools of thought, which consequently lead to different rulings.

Scholars spend decades studying the law and, like with Western law, an expert on one aspect of Sharia is no means the authority on another.

Islamic jurists issue guidance and rulings. Guidance that is considered a formal legal ruling is called a Fatwa.

Do people go to court?

Sharia courts exist in both the Muslim world and in the Western world.

In parts of the Muslim world the criminal courts and their punishments are of course drawn from the rules of Sharia.

In the West, Muslim communities have established Sharia courts to largely deal with family or business disputes.

The internet has become a popular way of seeking a ruling with scholars. Some of the guidance to Muslims in the west which has been considered most outlandish has come from these sources, particularly where the scholar has no knowledge of the realities of western life.

Why is Sharia mentioned in the same breath as public executions?

Of all the issues around Islamic law, this remains the most controversial in Western eyes - and its presentation the most infuriating for Muslims.


Tariq Ramadan: Called for moratorium on death penalty

Muslims say the Western world misrepresents Sharia by focusing on beheadings in Saudi Arabia and other gruesome punishments. The equivalent, they say, would be a debate about the history of Western law focused on America's electric chair.

Some modern Muslim scholars say that while Sharia includes provisions for capital and corporal punishment, getting to that stage is in fact quite difficult.

The most famous Muslim thinker in Europe, Tariq Ramadan, has called for a moratorium on these penalties in the Muslim world.

He argues that the conditions under which such penalties would be legal are almost impossible to re-establish in today's world.

But Muslims can be executed for converting?

Apostasy, or leaving the faith, is a very controversial issue in the Muslim world and the majority of scholars believe it is punishable by death.

But a minority of Muslim thinkers, particularly those engaged with Western societies, argue that the reality of the modern world means the "punishment" should be left to God - and that Islam itself is not threatened by apostasy.

The Koran itself declares there is "no compulsion" in religion.

Egypt's most senior cleric has faced a storm in the Middle East after floating some of these ideas but the debate may well continue for many generations to come.

So what kind of Sharia are we talking about in the UK?

The key issues are family law, finance and business. In practice many Muslims do turn to Sharia guidance for many of these day-to-day matters, particularly family disputes.

And how does this work in practice?

Muslims are increasingly looking to the example of Jewish communities which have long-established religious community courts.

These "courts" are legally recognised in English law as a means for warring parties to agree to arbitration. The law sees this as a practical way of helping people to resolve their differences in their own way, without clogging up the local courts.

But what about incorporating Sharia into British law?

In two important areas British law has incorporated religious legal considerations. British food regulations allow meat to be slaughtered according to Jewish and Islamic practices - a touchstone issue for both communities.

Secondly, the Treasury has approved Sharia-compliant financial products such as mortgages and investments. Islam forbids interest on the basis that it is money unjustly earned. These products are said by supporters to meet the needs of modern life in a way that fits the faith.

Has any western nation allowed Sharia to be used in full?

Not at all. Canada is widely reported to have come close - leading to protests in 2005.

But in reality the proposals were little different to the existing religious arbitration rules here in the UK.

Experts considered establishing Sharia-related family courts to ease the burden on civil courts - but said these would have to observe the basic human rights guarantees of Canadian law.

What about Sharia and women?

Some Muslim women in Britain are concerned about how their rights are protected. Take marriage for example.

Muslims only consider themselves truly married once they have conducted the Islamic ceremony, known as the nikah. In some cases, this means that there is a cultural view that the British civil ceremony, which enforces legal rights under the law, is not important.

Some mosques are alive to this issue and now demand to see a marriage certificate as a condition of the nikah. Others do not. Many women want Muslim leaders to do more to ensure their rights are protected under British law.

Does Sharia allow men to instantly divorce wives?

There is an idea that men merely have to say the Arabic for divorce three times (known as the triple talaq) and that is sufficient - and there are some men who think they have this right.

In practice, not only do texts show Muhammad disagreed but today, where Sharia courts are properly run, the words are merely a symbolic part of a rigorous process.

Marriage is a contract in Islam. Scholars expect three-month cooling-off periods, dialogue, arbitration and counselling. However, Talaq is a very complicated area of Sharia law with conflicting views - see internet links for one example.

So women have reservations about Sharia?

Some Muslim women in the West would be worried about protection of their rights in Sharia courts where there is discrimination against them because of patriarchal and cultural control in their communities.

This does not mean that they are necessarily opposed to Sharia - only there are live concerns about the fairness of its application.

It's fair to say that many leading Muslim women are more concerned about how existing British equality measures and human rights laws can be used to improve their position and voice in society.

[Bacon]

God Square Ball; that's a well written and informative piece.

Keep this up and you will be competing for poster of the year!

[maddog]

For example, many young Muslims ask themselves what they should do if colleagues invite them to the pub after work or college

They should go to the pub, and chill to f**k out a bit.

[armaghniac]

This Rowan character seems out on a limb on this one. In the 26 counties, even in the period when the Catholic church was supposed to be running the place, you had civil marriage and things like church annulments had no legal status. Devout Moslems can see arbitration from their own institutions and where there is agreement on these things the civil law might acknowledge that, if not in conflict with the general law.

[Square Ball]

God Square Ball; that's a well written and informative piece.

Keep this up and you will be competing for poster of the year!

why thank you Bacon, it was so good the BBC used it as well 

[Solomon Kane]

The paramilitaries used their own form of Sharia law for years in Northern Ireland.

[heganboy]

there seems to be a fair bit of confusion here, the issue as it exists in English law now, states that in a dispute an agreed upon third party can mediate in a dispute and their resolution is legally binding. Muslim and Jewish law are used in this circumstance in many parts of the UK. However this is not saying that Sharia law will be applied over common law.

[thejuice]

For example, many young Muslims ask themselves what they should do if colleagues invite them to the pub after work or college

They should go to the pub, and chill to f**k out a bit.

This is the Gospel, according to St MadDog

[maddog]

For example, many young Muslims ask themselves what they should do if colleagues invite them to the pub after work or college

They should go to the pub, and chill to f**k out a bit.

This is the Gospel, according to St MadDog

if its good enough for me