Spotlight on BBC 6 Counties tomorrow night

[stiffler]

Anyhow, why would anyone consider "killing" or "insulting" someone merely because they follow another team?

I ask myself this also when i hear norn iron supporters referring to southeners as 'beggars' 

[Evil Genius]

But re the "some of my best freinds are black" defence. Some of the OWC boys are the worst offenders here. I dont know how many times its been mentioned that guys go to games with nationalist, or catholic freinds to NI games.

You are falsely conflating about two different things when you compare Fearons "defence", with those OWC fans who point out that a number of NI fans come from a Catholic/Nationalist background.

Re. the former, Fearon consistently slates the IFA/NI team etc on the basis that they're "sectarian", "monocultural" etc and uses this as a basis for his criticism of anyone associated with them. However, with his reference to Gerry Armstrong, he revealed that he simply hates anyone connected with the team in an utterly unreasonable and prejudiced manner. Of course, having realised that he had let his mask slip, he attempted to retrieve the situation. First, he attempted to defend himself by pretending he only meant someone should "have a word with" Armstrong - a palpable lie. So next he came out with the amazing revelation about NI fans that he would, in fact, have them "about the house" - as if that somehow proves his liberal and tolerant credentials.

Whereas, with the latter, OWC fans only point to the small (but increasing) number of NI fans from a Catholic/Nationalist background who attend NI games in order to demonstrate what can only be a good thing - namely that they want the NI team to be open to all. Therefore, it is not a question of our being "offenders" like Fearon with something to "defend" or conceal - we are proud of it for its own sake.

And for the record, whilst it is still a minority and we still have our share of meatheads in our support, in each of the last four NI matches I personally have attended, home and away, it has been in mixed company.

Onwards and Upwards   

[Solomon Kane]

Beca

Tony - will you please answer my question?

Solomon, hope you dont mind me asking, but why do you want to know which religion they are?
What difference would that make?

Because Tony constantly says that few/no Catholics support Northern Ireland. if these lads are Catholics, it's a point against him. I'd imagine that's SK's motivation for the question. Trying to trip poor Tony up. Sneaky that.

Exactly right.

[nifan]

But re the "some of my best freinds are black" defence. Some of the OWC boys are the worst offenders here. I dont know how many times its been mentioned that guys go to games with nationalist, or catholic freinds to NI games.
You just have to give the benefit of the doubt in these cases.

I have said this, and its true. The difference is i dont insult catholics continually, then get pulled on it, only to try and excuse myself based on my friendships

[nifan]

Incidently tony has claimed on many many occasions that he does not know a single catholic who is a NI fan.

[stiffler]

Incidently tony has claimed on many many occasions that he does not know a single catholic who is a NI fan.

I don't think its fair to presume someone's religion based on the religion of a relative.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

In fairness I think Fearon's basic point is correct. In my experience the vast majority of those from a Catholic background in the north with any interest in soccer support Ireland rather than NI. I'm sure there are exceptions (Marty Clarke for example) but as a basic point its fair enough.

There are quite a few young fellas who play or have played for NI. I've heard that some young aspiring footballers from a Nationalists background, when selected for NI, jump at the chance. They do this,not because of any love of NI, indeed often they would much prefer to play for the Republic but simply because NI offer them a schoolboy cap first and gaining this recognition is pivotal to what they really want more than anything else - a professional career. Its not necessary what fans of either side would like to see but I can understand why young fellas would be tempted to do this.

[magickingdom]

i cant believe ziggys got a warning! whats up with that. hope you learn your lesson there ziggy, the pen is mightier than the sword 

as to the thread itself, cant understand myself how a nationalist would square the idea of playing for the north with his nationalism but then that would be an individual thing so its very possible. as for gerry armstrong who said he's a nationalist? he may not be... tonys initial comments were the pits (and you know that tony).

[Donagh]

I wouldn't be too hard on this Armstronge fella as I doubt he has had any other option but to nail his colours to the OWC mast. Not only did he not have the choice to play for Ireland when he was starting his soccer career but don't forget he grew up in very different times when the old Stormont regime had done its damndest to suffocate any expression of Irish identity in the six counties.

Belfast in the fifties and sixties didn't have RTE beaming into homes but the clipped Oxbridge accented voices of the BBC. There was no internet but the Belfast Telegraph and don't forget that even the Irish News's extensive coverage of Gaelic games has been a recent enough phenomenon. That's the way it was, and for many especially those in the urban centres away from the border, you didn't have the space to question the status quo.

So in many ways like the lifer 20 years into his sentence is easy to understand how he was 'institutionalised' or 'conditioned' to the extent that opting for the north wasn't so much a choice but something you just did unthinkingly. A bit like those Irish who left for London at the same time and who'd rather live out the rest of their days staring down the bottom of another bottle than come home again, this fella has to stick with OWC – to do anything else would be to admit his life has been a failure.

[ONeill]

What sort of balax sits down and reports what someone said on this board. Next you'll be suing each other.

[Solomon Kane]

as to the thread itself, cant understand myself how a nationalist would square the idea of playing for the north with his nationalism but then that would be an individual thing so its very possible.

There have been plenty of nationalists who have represented Northern Ireland at all sorts of activities. To take that idea to an extreme would mean no nationalist would work for the Northern Ireland Civil Service as it was against their political beliefs, or sit on the Northern Ireland Executive or Assembly. They may not be representing the idea of an Ireland they prefer but they are not representing Britain either.

[nifan]

Donagh, anyone with a different opinion than yourself must be somehow brainwashed

[Donagh]

Donagh, anyone with a different opinion than yourself must be somehow brainwashed

No 'brainwashing' infers that  something has been applied to this man to induce him to do something whereas I'm suggesting he just adapted to the situation he found himself in i.e. it wasn't a deliberate action rather subconscious mental process. Either way, wouldn't blame him for choosing to play for OWC as it wasn't as though he would ever have won anything in Antrim. After playing for the Johnnies, progressing to another bunch of hateful feckers was just natural progression. 

[magickingdom]

[

There have been plenty of nationalists who have represented Northern Ireland at all sorts of activities. 

care to name one?

[ONeill]

Feck me. Anyone throwing things at the TV at the narrator's lilt?

Tis like a primary school story.