NFL Div. 4

[stevecw]

I think the problem is that some teams were a lot weaker than we expected, which means that even though we got a good win down in Carlow, it's now looking very much like none of the top three teams in the division will drop any points to anyone except each other. Of course the problem then is that you must win at least one game in the "mini" league between those three -Antim have, and neither us nor wicklow have, so it's down to the game between OY and WW. At the start of the year you would have presumed that Clare, Carlow and maybe even Tipp would have taken some points off the other teams - now it looks like that won't happen, thus eliminating the margin for error.

What you say is probably not too far off. As a Carlow man i was really let down by that loss to Offaly & the way we just gave up in 2nd half. We were only 4 pts down at HT. 1st half there was nothing in that game & Offaly keeper pulled off 2 great saves to keep Offaly ahead. We lost a couple of pts at start of 2nd half & just stopped playing after that which was terrible to see.
But ruling us out of taking points from Antrim or especially Wicklow is a bit premature.

Next game for us in Belfast is huge. A win there and we are back in the frame big time. At the moment its hard to see it happen. But we will be stronger for Antrim game than we have been up to now. Mark Carpenter our no 11 is back from being sent off in the draw vs Dublin. And our top forward Simon Rea is back from injury now too. Add our captain Cashin back from injury aswell, so we've a much stronger side than what we've had so far in league.

On the downside..there was a trial arranged last night by Bealin for any players who had not committed so far(about 7 of the best players in the co), to join up. Sadly all we got was 1 of those 7 guys & 2 of the U-21s. We expected a couple more at least.
So i predict a narrow loss in Belfast on the 15th to end our promotion hopes. But not a 10 pt defeat as predicted earlier by AZ!!

[AZOffaly]

But not a 10 pt defeat as predicted earlier by AZ!!

I hope your right, but on all known form (notwithstanding the returning players) that's what it looks like to me. I hope ye beat them

[stevecw]

Ok so what ye reckon the games this weekend? For me the Top 4 in Div 4 play each other.
Antrim v Carlow & Wicklow v Offaly.
Its a fact the winners of these games at weekend will be in pole position to get promotion.
It looks now like Offaly & Antrim will get to be promoted & it looks like TM cup will be Carlow & Wicklowslot this summer . Hate being in that TM cup again which nobody wants to be part of.
Unless Carlow can win in Antrim or Wicklow beat Offaly, its no qualifiers for us this year

[AZOffaly]

I'd be hopeful, but very nervous, of the trip to Aughrim. I think it's basically a winner takes all between them, unless Carlow can shock Antrim.

Very worried, Offaly need to be winning this division, and getting into Division 3. Not only for the back door criterium, but for the opposition in Division 3, and then 2.

[Lone Shark]

On form we still should be good enough to go to Aughrim and win - I thought Antrim should have been favourites in Casement, but I would consider Antrim and ourselves to be much of a muchness, so home advantage was pretty big up there. I know we've to travel again, as with all big games in this division, but even so I'd like to think that we would be four or five points better than Wicklow if we play our game. If I'm not mistaken players like Neville Coughlan and James Coughlan should be eligible for selection again which will add a few options, so without meaning to be disrespectful to Wicklow, I'll be very disappointed if we don't win. My main concern is our poor record in very tight games - I'd be worried that if we're four points the better team we'll win by four, but if we're two points better we'll concede a stupid goal and lose by a point.

Hopefully they'll have done something about the freetaking over the past couple of weeks as well - that really hit crisis point up in Belfast.

Stevecw, I admire your optimism, but I get the feeling that if ye are fourth (something that Tipp right now would contest) ye're fourth in the same way that Everton are fifth in the premiership, or Limerick are the third best football team in Munster. There's a gap there, and no O'Byrne Cup heroics would convince me that ye can take points off either Antrim or Wicklow - though for obvious reasons I really hope I'm wrong. Antrim by seven for me.

 

[INDIANA]

i can' t understand with the forwards offaly have why they are struggling so badly or is Roe not as good as people thought he was.

[Lone Shark]

I'm not sure if our forwads are as good as all that - Niall McNamee is the real deal all right, the genuine blue chip article (though he hasn't been playing well the last couple of games) but after that it's all a bit hit and miss. Sean Ryan has been unavailable due to Birr's campaign in the hurling, Neville Coughlan is injured, James Coughlan is still a great man to know where the posts are but he disappears from games, while Thomas Deehan can look good but he is very streaky all the same.

Funnily enough Paschal Kelleghan has been the best forward of our league campaign so far, and I thought his best days were behind him - but he has stepped up and played some great games.


Pat Roe didn't have a good year one, but if he gets us out of this division and we get a couple of wins in the championship this summer he'll have earned another shot in my eyes anyway.

[AZOffaly]

Agree with your summary LS, especially re. Roe. Last year wasn't helped by a general apathy and lax approach by the players, and I don't think Roe managed to jolt them out of it. This year, apparently, there is a renewed hunger around the place, probably epitomised by Pascal Kellaghan's good form, and hopefully that will be translated into promotion and at least a win over Longford/Westmeath in the championship.

[stevecw]

Ok well this weekend really put Carlow and especially Wicklow in their place. We are div 4 sides & no point pretending anything else. I was pretty hopeful of a win heading up to Belfast on sat. The team that was picked was very wrong in my opinion, no point going into it here as nobody would understand. At half time it was 7-4 for Ant, after they had the strong wind in 1st half, we were hanging in there without playing well. So at that stage it looked ok, with wind behind us we felt we could win.  2nd half was hard to believe how bad we played. Gave away possession non-stop, kicked easy chances wide, only got 3 more scores (all from frees) & Antrim without having to play anyway well got an easy 6 point win.
Was hard to stomach, we brought a big crowd up expecting better, but the team didnt play at all. Antrim were very average & were there for the taking, but we were so poor we hadnt a chance.
I see Wicklow got destroyed at home to Offaly aswell. Another county that expected a bit too much from this league.

Only good part of weekend was our U21s getting to Leinster semi for the 1st time in 24 years with a great win v Offaly. 9-2 down after 20 mins, and came back to win 1-11 to 0-13! Thanks mainly to an unbelievable save by our keeper in injury time.
As bad as seniors are, at least with minors reaching Leinster final last year & the 21s including a few of that minor side reaching a semi this year. The future might be better for us, well cant be much worse than what went before anyway!!

[AZOffaly]

Those Offaly b*stards. Building my hopes up like this.

I was unfortunate enough to be in Tullamore at the hurling, and when the score came through from Aughrim I couldn't believe it. I was hoping/expecting a 3 or 4 point win, but when I heard 3-15 to 1-06 I thought, feck, that's the sort of scoreline a top team would put up down there. Aughrim has always been a tough place to go.

With the results at the weekend, you would have to expect Antrim and Offaly to go up, and also to contest the 'final', but I would still like Offaly to continue with the momentum and take care of business against Waterford, Kilkenny and Clare.

[AZOffaly]

Current Standings

Team	Played	Won	Drew	Lost	Points Difference	Points
Offaly	5	4	1	0	+61	9
Antrim	5	4	1	0	+49	9
Tipperary	4	3	0	1	+45	6
Waterford	4	3	0	1	+19	6
Wicklow	4	2	0	2	+21	4
Carlow	4	2	0	2	-14	4
Clare	5	1	0	4	-3	2
London	4	0	0	4	-63	0
Kilkenny	5	0	0	5	-115	0

You would have to think that it's more or less all over bar the shouting for Offaly and Antrim, unless there's any calamitous slip up (not beyond Offaly ), and the Faithful's big wins in Carlow and Aughrim are looking good at the moment to give them an edge over Antrim, especially with a home game against Kilkenny to come.

This week's Division 4 fixtures sees Tipperary travel to Carlow in a match that would have been put down as a Carlow win before the season started, in all likelihodd, but Carlow seem to have their problems, while Tipp have turned in a few decent performances including holding Offaly to 4 points in Tullamore, although their wins have been against the 7th, 8th and 9th teams in the division. Carlow's 6 point defeat in Belfast is not a shocking result, and you could see a close game developing. I'm going to give a hesitant nod to Tipp, purely on momentum.

The second game sees Waterford travel to Tullamore to take on Offaly. Offaly were, by all accounts, very impressive against Wicklow, but were lucky to get out of Casement Park with a draw, while Carlow only faded badly in the second half. The Tipperary game was a wake up call, and the Antrim result meant they had to beat Wicklow, which in fairness they did very well. Waterford have also beaten the bottom three, and were turned over by Wicklow in Dungarvan, so it's hard to see anything other than a comprehensive Offaly win, depending on how they approach the game.

Also on the card is a trip to Ruislip for Antrim. London are pointless in the league, and have shipped heavy defeats to Offaly, Carlow, Tipperary and Waterford. Their  previous home game saw a seven point defeat to Carlow, and again, depending on Antrim's focus for this game, you should expect to see a mid-high teens win for the Saffrons.

The final game of the weekend is in Ennis as two disappointing teams lock horns with Micko taking his tourbus to Clare. Wicklow should be better than they are, but the same could be levelled at Clare. Both sides will be severly disheartened following their games so far, especially Clare who have lost at home to Carlow and Antrim. Wicklow will be gutted by a 15 point loss to Offaly, so it will be interesting to see who can lift themselves most for this. With Micko in charge, you would have to assume Wicklow will be keen to bounce back, so I'll go for a close Wicklow win, maybe 3 or 4 points.

[imtommygunn]

Not beyond Antrim for a mess up either - think TM cup final last year...

Antrim against Tipperary in Tipperary will be the decider for second place. If Offaly haven't played Kilkenny yet then the score difference is basically untouchable.

Hard to know what Tipperary are like. When teams struggle to put away other perceived weaker teams(like Offaly against Tipperary) then they would tend to look at themselves and not account for the fact that the other team may have improved / be a lot better than anticipated. Antrim may get it tight enough there.

AZ what happens to first and second? Obviously both promoted but is there any form of playoff?

[AZOffaly]

Yeah, there's a Division 4 League Final to be played a a neutral ground. I would assume that, barring other divisional finals messing it up or causing double headers, Offaly and Antrim (if it is those two) would be in Navan. I think they are slated for the weekend of the 26th/27th of April. A Saturday evening in Navan would be nice, but of course both teams have to keep going before that would happen.

[AZOffaly]

Depends on how Tipp get on between now and the end of the season. Carlow and Wicklow away will test them, as will the game against Antrim in Tipp. I'd say Antrim are safe enough, even if they 'only' draw in Ardfinnan. A loss there would obviously throw the cat among the pigeons, but even with that, Tipp would have to go unbeaten to the end, and that won't be easy.

[imtommygunn]

Right enough it's hard to know what Tipp will do against Wicklow. Very surprised to see Wicklow get such a hammering by you guys and be interesting to see if they have just capitulated. Getting beat by Antrim would have been a huge blow to them.

Having said that I've a funny feeling that had McManus been on the full game against Antrim the outcome would have been different - very different. You're, no offense, no world beaters but you have a few forwards (the 14 - Deighan I think? -  that day plus obviously McNamee) who,on their day, are capable of wiping out teams at this level of football.