Armagh v Derry McKenna Cup

[corn02]

Totally agree Orior about the Derry men being just out of the gym etc. But how many of Armaghs first 15 today will be playing come Championship time. O'Rourke of course but was thier anyone else?  It is nothing to be annoyed about.

[pintsofguinness]

Totally agree Orior about the Derry men being just out of the gym etc. But how many of Armaghs first 15 today will be playing come Championship time. O'Rourke of course but was thier anyone else?  It is nothing to be annoyed about.

The first team wouldnt inspire much confidence either corn.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Far far too many men missing today to draw any conclusions on how things might go later in the year. Even the lads who haven't started for Armagh in the championship regularly who are most likely to make the breakthrough were missing - Lavery, Vernon, Miceal O'Rourke etc. And apart from those 3, we have Donaghy and Kieran Toner who started last year. Last years crop of under 21s probably were of a similar standard to the 2004 side. You can't expect more than 4 or 5 lads from any underage side to make it at senior level. Look how Down fared when they tried to turn their entire 1999 minor team into seniors.

As for today, I thought we were very poor at midfield The inside forwards didn't shine but the quality of ball wasn't very good. Biggest positive was seeing Brian Mallon back.

Of the team that started today, the chances are that only 2 or 3 will start in the championship.

[corn02]

Totally disagree POG, I can not understand why the first team does not inspire. Last year we were supposedly done and without two key forwards we took many peoples tip for Sam apart in their back yard only to loose to a howler of goalkeeping error. In the Derry game again we were easily the better team but without Clarke and Mallon our lack of a scoring threat cost us.

[pintsofguinness]

corn last year we'd also McGeeney and Marsden.  Paul McGrane, Oisin and McNulty where all a year younger.
Can you tell me what newcomer last year made an impact?

It's the same old story, and I remember rufus saying this before, come championship time we rely on the same faces, they're getting older and retiring (McGrane, oisin and mcnulty will hardly stay much longer?) and there isn't one to replace these men.

[corn02]

I think it would be fair to say Mardsen was poor in the two games last year. McGeeney obviously is a massive loss for character alone. I do believe lads like Vernon, Lavery and Toner can do well for Armagh. When McGeeney and all were breaking into the team in the early 90s people could not of imagined the impact himself/McGrane/Mardsen would have. Who is to say that in ten years we are not going to say "who is going to possibly replace Charlie Vernon?" or whoever it may be. The outlook is bleak for this season and I understand and partially agree with your points POG but when I look at the squad I still see it as one of the top squads in Ireland.

[David McKeown]

Yeah Dara Edwards is originally from Eire Og although I believe he may have moved to the Tones for a year.  I went to school with him and I think hes 4 or 5 years older than me which would put him about 27/28.  Hes a former county minor who I remember jumping for a ball in Clones one day with one hand whilst he fixed his hair with his other hand.  He was dating a family member at the time which is the only reason I remember the incident because we gave him dogs abuse about it after.  I cant see him being in the squad come the end of the league.

Of the team today I thought number 3 who i think was Finian Morriarity had a decent game.  Can't really add much more to whats been said here but after watching our forwards today I can't help but wonder why Shane Smyth hasnt been called back into the panel.

[Smokin Joe]

corn last year we'd also McGeeney and Marsden.  Paul McGrane, Oisin and McNulty where all a year younger.
Can you tell me what newcomer last year made an impact?

Brendan Donaghy did Pints.  He was my MoM against Donegal.

[Smokin Joe]

bit early for the uber-pessimissim, only last week I said I reckoned Armagh have a strong a panel as we have ever had and I firmly believe it.  players missing today who could do a job:
Hearty
McKeown (Cross)
Bellew
A Kernan
S Kernan *
D Comiskey
Gareth ONeill
Kieran Toner
James Lavery
Charlie Vernon
Paul MCGrane
McDonnell
Clarke
McDonnell
McConville
Donaghy
P McKeever
Mal Mackin*
Paul Duffy
Andy Mallon

And I'm sure I missed a few.  What club was Quinn the CHB today from?

Benny, I wondered why you were mentioning last year's minor captain from Tullysaran, but I see you meant McKenna.

[Goats Do Shave]

I thought Finn Mo, got roasted by Muldoon to be honest! Though he did a bit better in the second half.. he seemed to get stuck in a bit more!

As said already Greg Loughran & Stefan Forker will hopefully step up. McCoy did well, along with Paudie McCreesh till he retired at half time injured.

Derry's defence was immense - I don't think anyone has said that yet!!

Considering that was Derry's first choice midfield - Austie & Edwards did ok - they aren't county standard though. I'd try Austie in full forward!

[illdecide]

R Austin played no 14 for Armagh U21's when the won the all-ireland and played there most of last season and done very well but speaking to him about this and he would prefer midfield he told me he is not fussed on full forward. but i'm sure he'd be glad to play wherever he's asked.

And Edwards def played for Eire Og and not Brolly's team St Brig and yes he is rank too

[Candyman]

R Austin played no 14 for Armagh U21's when the won the all-ireland and played there most of last season and done very well but speaking to him about this and he would prefer midfield he told me he is not fussed on full forward. but i'm sure he'd be glad to play wherever he's asked.

And Edwards def played for Eire Og and not Brolly's team St Brig and yes he is rank too

He did play for Eire Og but is now involved with St Brigids in Belfast.... Top Gun can confirm this!!!

[el_cuervo_fc]

R Austin played no 14 for Armagh U21's when the won the all-ireland and played there most of last season and done very well but speaking to him about this and he would prefer midfield he told me he is not fussed on full forward. but i'm sure he'd be glad to play wherever he's asked.

And Edwards def played for Eire Og and not Brolly's team St Brig and yes he is rank too

He did play for Eire Og but is now involved with St Brigids in Belfast.... Top Gun can confirm this!!!

I played alongside dara at U21 level.  and that was about 7 or 8 years ago now.  and He played at that time for Eire Og and not Pearse Og which was stated in a previous post.

I thought a few of the boys yesterday showed a bit of promise.  Mark Quinn, Gregory Loughran and McCoy I think all Had decent enough games.  Forker I think done well after an inital few stumbles as well

[mackers]

For me Indiana's post on the first page hits the nail on the head, it's very unfair on a lot of the new Armagh players yesterday. Derry played the perfect McKenna cup team for me, with about 5 or 6 established stars mixed in through the new breed to give them a chance. G Loughran and B Mallon were the only ones to take anything out of the game yesterday. Gerard McCoy showed some potential but wasn't his man the MOTM? Worth another look though.
As stated by other posters the lack of a scoring threat undid us last year and nothing that happened yesterday (aside from the return of B Mallon) lifts the gloom. I was hanging a lot of my hopes on Peadar Toal but he seems cursed with injuries.

[brokencrossbar1]

Armagh managers really can't win here.  For years JK was castigated for not trying younger players and relying on older heads.  Peter comes in and does that and gets slated for playing a team lacking experience.


Frankly I think this is the sort of team that should be put out in McKenna Cup games and challenges in the build up to blending some of these players into the senior team.  If they are not able to take on the responsibility themselves at this lower level of competition then how the hell do you expect them to play at the higher grade.

For what it is worth, Loughran did well and would be worth giving a decent run as he may add a bit more threat up front.  I thought a lot of the players seemed very slight in comparison to their Derry counter parts and would need to strengthen up a bit.  Forker is talented but needs to build on that talent.  He could be a serious player and potentially would be the replacement for Oisin in the starting team alongside Clarke and McDonnell.  People posted saying he should not have hit the penalty, who else would have hit it.  He is the sort of player who needs to get used to that.  In fairness he knocked over two frees just after the miss so it didn't seem to knock his confidence.

In defence no one really stood out and there may be a few squad additions but no real serious starting players at this stage of their careers going on yesterdays performance.

It is good to see Mallon back but you could see he lacks the sharpness in his game, both of mind and foot, but that will come with more game-time.  As good as MOR is at winning dirty ball he is no Paul Galvin and I think to persist with him in that role would be counter productive as he does not contribute enough when he does get the ball to warrant a starting place.  Austin is a decent player and could make a useful addition but not as a starter.  Dara Edwards is not good enough for this standard. 

I would like to see at some stage a forward like of Loughran, Swift, Mallon, Forker, Clarke, McDonnell as I think there is plenty of scoring threat here that people seem to think is missing in the Armagh set up, with plenty of experience on the line.