Will the paying of grants affect your attendance at Inter-County games

[DMarsden]

A few questions you should ask yourself.


1. Do you actually think county board members are going to give their time as freely now that others are being recompensed and they aren't? (are you aware of the time commitments county board members have to make?)

2. Do you think the effects of (1) are not going to affect the clubs?

3. Do you actually think that the government are going to pay this money from their own coffers?
a) if yes (which will not be the case IMO)- do you think that money should be better spent on hospitals etc?
b) if no - since that money is being lifted from the grants the govt give to the GAA for infrastructure, or from the tax breaks, its money that won't be spent on coaching/stadia/pitches/offsetting insurance etc.

4. Are you so naive as to think these "grants" are going to remain at €2500 a year?

5. Do you think the top players are not going to face extra temptation to transfer to the better counties where the prospects of getting more money are better? Or conversely, a poor hurler by Kilkenny's standards could transfer to... say Down - he'll get a grant then. A better example would have been Dublin to Meath I suppose. That will affect clubs too.

6. Why should people bother raising money for things like Club Down, we've already seen one high profile resignation from Club Tyrone. As you may or may not know Club Tyrone helps with much more than just the county teams, coaching and games development and pitch improvements receive funding raised through the Club Tyrone initiative. Do you think the tarring of things like Club Tyrone with paid players really won't reduce the support for them, and by proxy reduce the support clubs receive for coaching and infrastructure?

1. Yes. Why would county board officials lay claim to a government grant scheme for athltes?

2. not a chance in hell. most club members don't give a fiddlers and don't begrudge their county lads the grant.

3. Yes. of course it would be better spent on hospitals but if it weren't grant aid it would not be used for that. if you think that's how government works you're deluded.

b is total nonsense by the way. do your research before posting up lazy scare stories.

4. Maybe the government will adjust them? who knows. inflation is always a factor.

5. No chance. you think this paltry amount would be enough to lure a charlie carter figure to travel those distances for training. the only real incentive out there is the possibility of playing at inter county level and that exists irrespective. certainly that amount of money ain't gonna be a deciding factor.

6. That will not happen in the medium term. that is a doomsday prediction. Any gael who raises funds for facilities, welfare and coaching initiatives will recognise that the government paying IC players grants will neither enhance nor diminish the lot of the GAA.

[bennydorano]

County and Club aren't really comparable, and why would a clubman desert his club because of what's going on at county level?

Oh I dunno... I suppose it would be the blatantly obvious inference being made that he/she feels they should be getting compensation for their commitment too.

Not very dedicated clubmen then.

[darbyo]

I haven't been able to post the last few days, so first off thank you for reolying to my question Tram (still the only anti-GPA poster to do so). But I'm afraid your scenario, with respect, is so unrealistic as to hardly warrant debate. RadioGAAGAA your last post is typical of many of the anti-gpa posters, it's almost dripping with paranoia.

Do you actually think county board members are going to give their time as freely now that others are being recompensed and they aren't?

Do you actually think that the government are going to pay this money from their own coffers?
a) if yes (which will not be the case IMO)- do you think that money should be better spent on hospitals etc?
b) if no - since that money is being lifted from the grants the govt give to the GAA for infrastructure, or from the tax breaks, its money that won't be spent on coaching/stadia/pitches/offsetting insurance etc.

Are you so naive as to think these "grants" are going to remain at €2500 a year?

Do you think the top players are not going to face extra temptation to transfer to the better counties where the prospects of getting more money are better? Or conversely, a poor hurler by Kilkenny's standards could transfer to... say Down - he'll get a grant then. A better example would have been Dublin to Meath I suppose.

If you go through that list of quotes above according to you, club and county administrators will walk away, the health service or GAA sporting infrastructure will suffer, the grants are sure to escalate, and the pick of the bunch players will leave their clubs and travel half way around the country to make at max €2500. None of these things are in anyway realistic, I'd be absolutely flabbergasted if next January when I start back up the U-8 and 10 training one of the coaches told me he wouldn't be involved because IC players were getting grants.

[zoyler]

Thats it  lads - just keep ignoring what has happened to club Rugby - it'll never happen to us - were different - sure our players alll do it just for the love of the game and sure a wedge dosn't have a thin edge.

Come back and see what the set up is like in 5/10 years wwhen this poison has seeped through the system.

[Tubberman]

Quote from: Tubberman on Today at 12:23:04 PM
Can you explain how the current situation is going to impact the GAA clubs in the same way rugby has been affected?

There has been NO change made to the club or inter-county structure.

The ONLY difference is the inter-county players get an annual grant of a max of €2500 (just over €200 a month).
So how is this the ruination of the club???


A few questions you should ask yourself.


1. Do you actually think county board members are going to give their time as freely now that others are being recompensed and they aren't? (are you aware of the time commitments county board members have to make?)

2. Do you think the effects of (1) are not going to affect the clubs?

3. Do you actually think that the government are going to pay this money from their own coffers?
a) if yes (which will not be the case IMO)- do you think that money should be better spent on hospitals etc?
b) if no - since that money is being lifted from the grants the govt give to the GAA for infrastructure, or from the tax breaks, its money that won't be spent on coaching/stadia/pitches/offsetting insurance etc.

4. Are you so naive as to think these "grants" are going to remain at €2500 a year?

5. Do you think the top players are not going to face extra temptation to transfer to the better counties where the prospects of getting more money are better? Or conversely, a poor hurler by Kilkenny's standards could transfer to... say Down - he'll get a grant then. A better example would have been Dublin to Meath I suppose. That will affect clubs too.

6. Why should people bother raising money for things like Club Down, we've already seen one high profile resignation from Club Tyrone. As you may or may not know Club Tyrone helps with much more than just the county teams, coaching and games development and pitch improvements receive funding raised through the Club Tyrone initiative. Do you think the tarring of things like Club Tyrone with paid players really won't reduce the support for them, and by proxy reduce the support clubs receive for coaching and infrastructure?

1. I see no reason why not. County board members have continued to work away despite payments to managers. And many co board officials are paid now anyway.

2. Well, seeing as I don't think (1) is going to be an issue, the answer is no.

3. Of course it's going to be from the government's coffers. Unless Bertie organises a whip-around  
   a) Bit of a pathetic question. Sure if you use that logic, there wouldn't be investment in any area other than health. As an aside, the shambles of a health system is not because of a lack of money being thrown at it.
  b) The governemt have given a commitment that the funding does not affect GAA infrastructure grants. It's fair to throw your eyes up at that though. But then, we never have a fixed GAA budget anyway so we never know what the GAA is going to get. It's an impossible question to answer.

4. Well they're going to remain at that level for 3 years anyway - they are the terms of the deal. It's up to the govt and the GPA to negotiate after that point. I presume the point you're trying to make is that it could escalate to huge sums of money that would entice top players from weaker counties to move to bigger counties etc. But I can't see that happening! Do you really think the govt are going to effecively pay salaries to 2000 footballers and hurlers!?

5. No I don't. Any temptation to move county is already there anyway - there are plenty of people tempting top players 'under the counter'. So a couple of grand isn't going to change it.

6. Why wouldn't they?? I presume the main reasons they raise money for their county teams is out of pride of place and to see their county teams prepared as well as possible, so they have the best chance of success. I don't see why the grants would change that desire. And if anything, you could argue the grant will help player's preparation - money to spend on their dietary requirements etc...

[darbyo]

This rugby comparison has been trotted out here on a few occasions, but IMO there is no real comparison. They are very different situations and very different sporting make ups. But before going there, Zoyler you are the latest thin edge of the wedge man, now anyone can come on here and claim this, that, or the other thing will happen at some point in the future. In your opinion do you think the GAA are going to start paying a living wage to players in the future? If so how do see this coming to be?
                 Now I'm not much of a rugby man, but in my home town the rugby club has gone in and out of existence for decades. But it is currently doing quite well for itself, and there is a notable increase in rugby jerseys floating around the town. The point I'm making is that AIL rugby has taken a hit because it has been replaced as the top level of rugby in Ireland but lower down many junior clubs are doing quite well. So saying professionalism has destroyed club rugby is an exaggeration. More importantly rugby was forced to go completely professional by international influences. We don't have that, so players, regardless of their number or quality, can't force the GAA to go professional, it can only happen if a majority want it to happen.

[RadioGAAGAA]

Thats it  lads - just keep ignoring what has happened to club Rugby - it'll never happen to us - were different - sure our players alll do it just for the love of the game and sure a wedge dosn't have a thin edge.

Come back and see what the set up is like in 5/10 years wwhen this poison has seeped through the system.

I know - the evidence is staring them in the face yet they are burying their heads in the sand.

[lynchbhoy]

...might even start supporting tyrone and cork , and go to the games and shout abuse at their players when they are losing saying that they are not worth the money they get and I want my taxes back !

'we want a rebate' !

[magpie seanie]

Eh, the results of this poll  knob.

I thought the poll said "Will the paying of grants affect your attendance at Inter-County games" not "Do you intend to go to county football next year". But you probably can't see the difference between the two statements.

[RadioGAAGAA]

Not very dedicated clubmen then.

You could of course, level the very same accusation at the county players - they aren't very dedicated are they?

[DMarsden]

Rugby comparisons are not sensible. rugby clubs had to raise revenue to pay player salaries. no such thing is happening in the gaa, nor ever will.

[darbyo]

I know - the evidence is staring them in the face yet they are burying their heads in the sand.

Yep that's right lads we have our heads in the sand, thin edge of the wedge, look at what happened to rugby, lads will travel 4hr round trips 3 times a week for €2K a year. 95% of your points are about what will happen (IYO) in the future, with nothing to back it up and little engagement on opposing points made to ye. Just repeating the mantra that the sky will fall in on the GAA.

[RadioGAAGAA]

1. I see no reason why not. County board members have continued to work away despite payments to managers. And many co board officials are paid now anyway.

2. Well, seeing as I don't think (1) is going to be an issue, the answer is no.

3. Of course it's going to be from the government's coffers. Unless Bertie organises a whip-around 
    a) Bit of a pathetic question. Sure if you use that logic, there wouldn't be investment in any area other than health. As an aside, the shambles of a health system is not because of a lack of money being thrown at it.
   b) The governemt have given a commitment that the funding does not affect GAA infrastructure grants. It's fair to throw your eyes up at that though. But then, we never have a fixed GAA budget anyway so we never know what the GAA is going to get. It's an impossible question to answer.

4. Well they're going to remain at that level for 3 years anyway - they are the terms of the deal. It's up to the govt and the GPA to negotiate after that point. I presume the point you're trying to make is that it could escalate to huge sums of money that would entice top players from weaker counties to move to bigger counties etc. But I can't see that happening! Do you really think the govt are going to effecively pay salaries to 2000 footballers and hurlers!?

5. No I don't. Any temptation to move county is already there anyway - there are plenty of people tempting top players 'under the counter'. So a couple of grand isn't going to change it.

6. Why wouldn't they?? I presume the main reasons they raise money for their county teams is out of pride of place and to see their county teams prepared as well as possible, so they have the best chance of success. I don't see why the grants would change that desire. And if anything, you could argue the grant will help player's preparation - money to spend on their dietary requirements etc...

1. County boards have paid the managers themselves, but many are dead set against the grants. Somewhat hypocritical I know, but that doesn't change the attitude of many county boards to these grants.

2. OK, your opinion, might be right, probably wrong (IMO).

3. PMSL - are you grant supporters really that wet behind the ears? DMarsden and now you both think that the government will give the extra money to the GAA and won't re-arrange the tax breaks etc to make it revenue neutral (from their perspective) - I suppose it is indicative of the ignorance shown in the pro-grant arguments really.

I can assure you that WILL NOT BE THE CASE, the GAA will be paying for these grants in otherwise unreceived money.

Did you miss the etc behind hospitals?


4. The GAA have effectively been suckered into paying these 'grants' already, with increases in the wage, they will have to stump up more.


5. I disagree.


6. Hmmm.... I'll bet support for such schemes disintegrates unless it is made clear no money whatsoever is going to the county panel.

[RadioGAAGAA]

no such thing is happening in the gaa, nor ever will.

You keep telling yourself that and it might really be the case....




actually, no, no, no... it won't.

[RadioGAAGAA]

Yep that's right lads we have our heads in the sand, thin edge of the wedge, look at what happened to rugby, lads will travel 4hr round trips 3 times a week for €2K a year. 95% of your points are about what will happen (IYO) in the future, with nothing to back it up and little engagement on opposing points made to ye. Just repeating the mantra that the sky will fall in on the GAA.

Ha - you stupidly assume that the 2K will stay at 2K.



I am using circumstantial evidence of both local rugby and local soccer - you (and the other pro grants supporters) are using hot air to back your argument.



Repeating ad nauseum that "the GAA are different", and "it won't happen to us" is not an argument based on anything but your own pre-conceived notions.