Meeting of Grassroots to Discuss our Strategy re GPA

[Clubmember]

ALL:

Please define PAY FOR PLAY in one sentence for me. - Just one sentence - what it means to you. It is thrown about here all the time along with "thin end of the wedge" and other cliches. I would just like you to explain them in very simple terms

The GPA and all of it's members voted AGAINST "PAY FOR PLAY" and any type of "PROFESSIONALISM" but that's not enough. This GRANT is not pay for play it is a GRANT to help with preparation to play a game to the highest level so that WE can enjoy it and more importantly so that they can generate the tens of millions of euros that fund this association and pay for administrators so that we can progress further as an organisation and grow as an organisation.

Also wrt managers payments/grants etc : You all seem to be opposed to them yet no meetings have been called, no organisation established to combat this !!!!!!!!!!!!! As far as I can see this is an anti -GPA political agenda that represents the view of a few. Even if you have 100 or 200 people at your meeting tonight are you honestly going to claim to represent all GRASSROOTS members? That's almost 1 MILLION members!!  

[believebelive]

ALL:

Please define PAY FOR PLAY in one sentence for me. - Just one sentence - what it means to you. It is thrown about here all the time along with "thin end of the wedge" and other cliches. I would just like you to explain them in very simple terms

The GPA and all of it's members voted AGAINST "PAY FOR PLAY" and any type of "PROFESSIONALISM" but that's not enough. This GRANT is not pay for play it is a GRANT to help with preparation to play a game to the highest level so that WE can enjoy it and more importantly so that they can generate the tens of millions of euros that fund this association and pay for administrators so that we can progress further as an organisation and grow as an organisation.

Also wrt managers payments/grants etc : You all seem to be opposed to them yet no meetings have been called, no organisation established to combat this !!!!!!!!!!!!! As far as I can see this is an anti -GPA political agenda that represents the view of a few. Even if you have 100 or 200 people at your meeting tonight are you honestly going to claim to represent all GRASSROOTS members? That's almost 1 MILLION members!!  

When did GPA members vote against pay for play? I thought it was never on their agenda so how did they get the opportunity to vote against it??

Also if this is just a grant to cover expenses why is it performance related? If it is truly to help preparation why are all players not allocated the same amount of money each week while they are in the championship.

My definition of pay for play is that it is money recieved for playing GAA over and above legitimate expenses.

And with respect to managers being paid I think this is the single biggest problem within the association at the moment and the few years that my club agreed to pay more than expenses I objected strongly at the time and also at the AGM at the end of the year.

[NAG]

DARBYO

Its quite simple I was just pointing out that it doesnt matter who is paying these Grants over to the players that it is still Paying them to Play which I object too.

Have stated my reasons for student grants and paid officials (in that they facilitate our games to be played).

Correct me if Im wrong but the president has come out against Managers being paid too?

This is the start of paying for play, I have stated already that soon enough these grants wont be enough for some players who think they deserve more. As well as this then the government arent going to pay this money for ever so who picks up the slack and when the GAA do its professionalism whether the GPA voted against it or not.

[full back]

Clubmember

Of course they do it for the love of the game - do you honestly think €2000 is going to stop them.

How can you justify this?
The players were going to strike unless they got the money

Unless the players got paid they werent going to play football..hence a strike
CLUBMEMBER

[behind the wire]

PAY FOR PLAY IN ONE SENTENCE:

simple - getting money because you play gaelic football or hurling.

that includes the grant. players get the grant because they play football or hurling. this is pay for play.


the reason no meetings have been called against paying managers is because it is all being done under ground. although everyone knows about it it is not advertised in the public domain. it is, however, equally as bad as the paying of players and needs to be eradicated. if any good has come out of this argument it is that it has stood to highlight the problem with paid managers in the association. it is wrong and hopefully there will be a huge backlash against the practice now.

it is the fact that amateur players came out and more or less demanded payment for taking part in what is simply a hobby that lead to the public outrage.

[darbyo]

Have stated my reasons for student grants and paid officials (in that they facilitate our games to be played).

Yes you did NAG but I pointed out that your position on student grants didn't hold water, so in order for you to have a consistent position you need to justify your comments. In case you missed my post here is what I said,

students are giving up the chance to work part time to earn some money towards their living expenses which is entirely different from someone in full time work getting money to play. The grants to students are a good idea because it allows them to play football through their college days without having to panic about money.
Quote
...has been proven for the gibberish it is, it doesn't seem to be sinking in so I'll do it one more time. Only a handful of students get any sort of grant (elitism anyone?), the level of grant aid varies, in both amount and source, from college to college. In certain colleges it exceeds what any student could earn from part time work, in others it is so little as  not to make a difference. So since all GAA playing students don't get grants and some of them get ones that aren't enough to let them give up their part-time work, how do colleges field these teams at all?
                       The argument some are making seems to be that if they didn't get this grant, they'd have to work and consequently wouldn't be able to play GAA. Sounds a bit like pay for play to me, but when it comes to IC players the attitude is, "well if they can't make that commitment let them f**k off, no-one is forcing them to play, thousands would give their right arm... etc. etc." To take this point to it's logical conclusion some lads are saying that because students can't earn boozing money through part time work it's ok to give them GAA grants, but because IC players are earning money themselves we shouldn't allow the govt. give them money. Did I say logical conclusion?

Behind the wire if this is your definition

PAY FOR PLAY IN ONE SENTENCE:

simple - getting money because you play gaelic football or hurling.

that includes the grant. players get the grant because they play football or hurling. this is pay for play.

why haven't you objected to student grants?

The GAA is riddled with so many inconsistencies' that it isn't even funny and that is (in part) why many of us don't have a problem with this grant. This isn't elitism or professionalism it is a government grant. Many of you have used athletes and rowers as examples of sportsmen who deserve a grant as much as IC GAA players. Well if they got a similar grant tomorrow do you think that the 'grassroots' of those sports would be calling a meeting to try and prevent the government giving them this money?
                     That's not for us though, we the self sacrificing and in many cases physic GAA grassroots will take down these Jonny big boots. My own club doesn't currently have an IC player but if we did I don't think I could look him in the face if I tried to prevent this grant going through. But according to some here me and my kind are just naive.

[behind the wire]

students get help with fees and accomodation costs, it is not money that they can do whatever they like with. it is completely different to getting money directly into the hand for playing gaelic football or hurling.

[Clubmember]

PAY FOR PLAY IN ONE SENTENCE:

simple - getting money because you play gaelic football or hurling.

that includes the grant. players get the grant because they play football or hurling. this is pay for play.

STUDENTS GET THE GRANT FOR PLAYING HURLIGN AND FOOTBALL - PAY FOR PLAY IS ALREADY HERE THEN



the reason no meetings have been called against paying managers is because it is all being done under ground. although everyone knows about it it is not advertised in the public domain. it is, however, equally as bad as the paying of players and needs to be eradicated. if any good has come out of this argument it is that it has stood to highlight the problem with paid managers in the association. it is wrong and hopefully there will be a huge backlash against the practice now.

SO BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEE IT ITs Ok?!


it is the fact that amateur players came out and more or less demanded payment for taking part in what is simply a hobby that lead to the public outrage.

[believebelive]

Clubmember -

U asked a number of questions and rasied a few points on the previous page. I replyed and a made a number of points of my own and asked you a few question.

Can you respond to these or do you just pick and choose who you have your debates with?

[behind the wire]

clubmember i hate to be personal but are u thick?

i have just said that payments to managers are wrong. the reason there hasnt been a kick up is because it is all done under the table. where did i say it was alright so long as we didnt see it?

thats right, i didnt. now for the last time. paying managers is wrong. paying players is wrong. the grant is paying players. the gaa is amateur. therefore players and managers should not be paid.

i hope there is a huge backlash against the blight that is payment of managers in the same way as there has been a kick up about payment of players.

is that clear enough for you?

[Clubmember]

Thanks behind the wire I'm delighted that you cleared it up. I must be thick as i find some views on here very confusing and frustrating as they are regularly hypocritical.

I understand now that you agree that all payments under or over the table are wrong and I'm looking forward to this debate being refocused back on all payments not just on the current grants payments to players or anti GPA stuff. All of this should be directed to Croke Park through clubs and county boards as all issues are. If enough people feel this way there shouldn't be any need for break -away groups. if you don't feel confident with people you have voted in to do their job....vote them out!!

[NAG]

Darbyo

There is absolutely no incosistency with my position, the bursary system is not infact pay for play because for some of the students, they have to make a choice to not have a job this bursary system facilitates our games at third level without which in the current economic climate it would probably not survive. This is completely different for guys in full time employment getting money into their pockets soley because they are intercounty players, there is no need to facilitate these guys as they are already covered by expenses and well looked after.

My club does have several counties players and they are of the opinion that it is a disgrace that they are being given these grants one of the fella's said he would take us out on the beer with his. They feel that they are putting in the same work as a successful club player and why should they be singled out.

[darbyo]

students get help with fees and accomodation costs, it is not money that they can do whatever they like with. it is completely different to getting money directly into the hand for playing gaelic football or hurling.

100% wrong, how do I know this? because I have recieved one myself from a provincial council in the form of a cheque. There were no strings attached to how I spent this money, I was just given it for playing GAA in a University. Cadbury's also give money to U21 INTER COUNTY players in all the Universities, should that be stopped? It is elitist (only IC players), ageist (only U21's), sexist(only men) and anti hurling (only footballers can apply).

[believebelive]

Clubmember -

Thanx for ignoring me again. Im feeling a bit jilted at this stage  

[behind the wire]

maybe your grant was different to mine. could well be the case.