Its Time to Say no to the GPA Deal

[behind the wire]

i say that they are no longer amateurs. anyone who takes to play sport is not an amateur sportsman. that is the bottom line. i am sorry to see this happen.

im sure other members of the board will support me on this.

just for the record i believe that players and managers should not be paid. full time administrators/ physios have the right to be paid but not players or managers. that is my stance.

[stephenite]

those of you who know any IC players personally, and i'm sure that is most of you, cannot tell me hand on heart that they are the greedy selfish bogie men determined to ruin the GAA that they are depicted here? That is why i feel obliged to point out the lack of balance on this ste with respect to the GPA.

Of course not, and I've said from the start that I am generally in favour of the grants, it's the best of a bad lot of other options - my only concern is the GAA paying this money on behalf of the Government and the precedent this sets.

[DMarsden]

I'm not really sure how the GPA Can be answerable for that, nor am i sure that its such a major issue. Certainly the demonisation of the playing body can't be the solution?

[full back]

Fair enough DMarsden but by being such a staunch supporter of the GPA it may seem to many that you have a vested interest in them.

BTW, I have a major issue with the players voting to strike unless they got paid/grants - that is a disgrace

[INDIANA]

A lot of people simply don't like the GPA. A lot of their members since the announcement have clearly stated this is only the beginning. A lot of grassroots members are fearing this is the beginning of the end of the Association as we know it and does appear to be the case -because once the door is open it stays open. If the Government turns around in 3 years and says we aren't giving grants anymore -what happens then? The Gaa will expected to pick up the slack.
The other thing is that the weaker counties re going to get a lot less than the elite for doing largely the same amount of training. So they even have elitism within their own organisation.
A lot of us see and know what a lot of the top inter county players get- and some of us believe asking for grants on top of that is a bit rich quite frankly. If you've a problem with that well that's your opinion. A lot of us don't share your views. I'd have more time for the proposals if it did something for the weaker counties who don't get any of the perks the top county players get. But they don't.

[DMarsden]

I'm not tha stunch a supporter nor have i any vested interest but it's difficult to sit by and watch vilification based on misrpresented facts.

In terms of the vote, each member has to answer for himself as not everyone voted or voted for the motion. The most consistent argument i've heard is that player's representatives had been messed about, stalled and belittled so much in negotiations and they had no bargaining tools to move the GAA forward. in short, it was a tactical vote.

[DMarsden]

If the Government turns around in 3 years and says we aren't giving grants anymore -what happens then? The Gaa will expected to pick up the slack.

As this has been asked and answered many times on this board in the last week alone, i'm losing the will to live. There is no provision for the GAA to pay this money. there is no demand among the GPA membership for this to happen should the government default (which i believe they won't).

The other thing is that the weaker counties re going to get a lot less than the elite for doing largely the same amount of training. So they even have elitism within their own organisation.
A lot of us see and know what a lot of the top inter county players get- and some of us believe asking for grants on top of that is a bit rich quite frankly. If you've a problem with that well that's your opinion. A lot of us don't share your views. I'd have more time for the proposals if it did something for the weaker counties who don't get any of the perks the top county players get. But they don't.

This is the sort of lazy stuff that i ruining the quality of this forum. Grant will vary but there's be no more than E800 between first round losers and all ireland finalists.

These "top county players" you speak of are a tiny minority in my experience. the grant is as much about including the small man than any other welfare issue that the GPA has successfully argued for.

Hardy - The GAA elevated the IC players to elite status, both directly and indirectly. Indirectly, every member has done this through the expectation of higher standards of fitness, skills, success, professional attitudes, intrusion into private lives, etc. Directly, the GAA have created an elite status by making provision in law for minimum travel expenses, training gear and other welfare considerations for intercounty players only and by subjecting only intercounty players and noone else in our assocition to Olympic standard drug testing.

[INDIANA]

Well you obviously have a lot less experience than me then so - because they certainly are not a tiny minority that is 100% of  afact. The players from the top 10-12 counties all do very well out of the Gaa-it's the others who don't and quite often don't even receive the basics from their own county boards. So instead of redressing the balance this merely increases it.

Look if you want to believe that when the Government stop paying this (and they will) that will be the end of it-please feel free to do so because the rest of us are not that naive. I was in Australia when this hapenned to AFL and this is going the same route. IN fact it's an absolute carbon copy.

[DMarsden]

You canot base an argument around conjecture and scare stories

[INDIANA]

i prefer to call it a simple realistic appraisal of the situation. I'm not a weatherman but i can tell when it's raining. When you've the likes of peter canavan speakig on the radio on friday evening saying it's good for starters you know what's coming down the track.

[DMarsden]

Call it what you like. it has only happened in your mind and you are introducing it as though it were fact in our reality. stop peddling bedtime stories as fact and it'd be a reasonable start at sensibly addressing any concerns you may have.

everyone knows when its raining but you're predicting the weather before it happens. it could be a great day tomorrow.

[believebelive]

DMarsden - have to ask you one question about this quote of yours.

"This is the sort of lazy stuff that i ruining the quality of this forum. Grant will vary but there's be no more than E800 between first round losers and all ireland finalists."


Where have you seen this figure written down in black and white? And i don't mean some quote from dessie in the sunday papers. Actual figures in an official written document wud be nice? don't think you will find it somehow. That is the problem with this whole things - somebody throws out a line to a newspaper and everyone takes it as the truth - the same shite happenned when everyone believed the GAA wud not administer the grants.

To me the problem with the whole thing is that if there really was such a little difference between first round losers and All Ireland finalists then the actual figures would have been released, at the moment a lot of people are annoyed that there is a precieved two tier system, if this is truly not the case why not just release the figures, is it bperhaps because they have not been figured out yet?. IMO the real reason that there is two tiers is becasue the sports council insisted on some sort of measured performance.

[DUBSFORSAM1]

Well you obviously have a lot less experience than me then so - because they certainly are not a tiny minority that is 100% of  afact. The players from the top 10-12 counties all do very well out of the Gaa-it's the others who don't and quite often don't even receive the basics from their own county boards. So instead of redressing the balance this merely increases it.

Look if you want to believe that when the Government stop paying this (and they will) that will be the end of it-please feel free to do so because the rest of us are not that naive. I was in Australia when this hapenned to AFL and this is going the same route. IN fact it's an absolute carbon copy.

Indiana - The initial proposal was that only the All-star nominees received the grant but the GPA refused to accept that - (terribly elitist of them I know).....
The top 12 counties who get maybe 800 Euro more isn't that much really...weaker counties like Fermanagh/Sligo etc have got this far already....

In fact the elitist appraoch exists in the GAA already with regards to Qualifiers, Rackard/Nicky Ring Cups....wiht regards to funding for hurling in most counties etc...(Any county that doesn't finance hurling/football equally in their county is taking an elitist approach)

Have you any proof that  -
A - The Govt will stop paying?
B - That the GAA will start paying??

No you don't so quite scaremongering....


Believebelieve - Did you read the original GAA/GPA proposal that was put forward for the grants first time round??? That will give you a reasonably good idea as to what the payouts will be....

[believebelive]

Believebelieve - Did you read the original GAA/GPA proposal that was put forward for the grants first time round??? That will give you a reasonably good idea as to what the payouts will be....

Yes I did - i know it inside out actually and it is wildly different to this present cobbled together effort - which is why I am asking again if the GPA know that there will only be 800 euro between the All ireland finalists and first round losers then why do they not just release the figures that say this? The answer is that these figures have not been worked out yet!!!!!
And to be pedantic if I were using the original proposal that the GAA/GPA agreed to the the difference between All Ireland finalist and first round loser is 1150 -  I repeat - there are not figures concerning this document officially released yet - so where do you get this 800 euro from  - and please don't sat Dessie told one of the papers and they printed it!!!!!

[blast05]

Folks, time to stop discussing the minor details like the difference in the amount of the grant from one level to another etc.
This is all acting as a smokescreen to the reality that pay for play is on our doorstep. Getting caught up in the various levels of pay or whether the women should be entitled to money or not etc neatly draws attention and discussion away (from a GPA perspective)from the single key issue - we now have pay for play.
Are we all going to sit back and watch.