Kerry 75-86 v Crossmaglen 97-08

[gallsman]

Munster football championship. Quoting the Ballylanders (a team from Limerick, whose county football is relatively decent, even if it's declined somwhat in the last few years) manager before the game against Nemo- "We'll give it a good go." Most St. Gall's (and Ulster)people would have had every faith that the possibility existed to beat Cross. They didn't turn up to "give it a go". Again, comparing the respective championships is ridiculous.

[GalwayBayBoy]

How would the bould Francie, if fit, handle the Bomber Liston, he was on his hole after Donaghy last year and Donaghy is not fit to lace the Bombers boots just yet.

Oisin would not get nothing easy off Paidi O'Se and Jacko would have both the McEntee twins in his arse pocket early on around midfield. Aaron Kernan would be chasing Pat Spillane around the place all day and wondering why Daddy Big Joe would not take him off. T'would be an embarrassment. Kerry in a canter.

If things had'nt changed up here(by that i mean both Armagh and Tyrone becomming almost professional in setup and outlook) you would have won every All Ireland this decade.

Ahem.

[corn02]

I stand by my belief that Armagh Club football is of extremely high standard. Cross are just  a machine but does not take away the fact that there are good clubs especially Dromintee, Ogs and Clans and obviously Harps if they get their act together.

[Kerry Mike]

Am I wrong in saying that in the 70's/80's after a Kerry team won an All Ireland they went on the lash til Feb and then got really stuck in to training?

As one of our lads once said one winter "our year revolves about football and drink and some of us haven't seen a ball in months"

Do the present team still do that?

Of course they do, you have to find time to celebrate and unwind for a few months, and there will be some piss up if/when they land the 3-in-a-row in '08.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I stand by my belief that Armagh Club football is of extremely high standard. Cross are just  a machine but does not take away the fact that there are good clubs especially Dromintee, Ogs and Clans and obviously Harps if they get their act together.

I'm not going to say that Armagh football is of an extremely high standard, but what I would argue (as I have done on previous occasions here) is that you cannot state that Armagh Club Football is weak on the basis of Crossmaglen's dominance. There appears to be agreement across the board here that this Crossmaglen team is arguably the greatest club side of all time, with only Nemo Rangers clouding the picture in any way. I would always have thought if you consider the top ten clubs in any county in Ulster, then Derry would be out in front and possibly Tyrone after that. I would imagine Armagh to be as strong as anything else thereafter. The fact that a lot of our leading Clubs havn't featured in the Ulster Club in some time does not take away from that. I wrote recently, on a previous thread, the following;

Have to say that I enjoy these sort of discussions about football within the County. Someone mentioned (was it Maximus) that Cross winning twelve in a row points to a bad standard of club football - I would disagree with that. Maximus also pointed out that Cross winning twelve in a row pointed to the rest having a mental block with Cross, I would agree with that assertion.

Over the twelve years that Cross have dominated in Armagh, there are in my opinion, four teams who could have given an Ulster Club a good rattle.

Mullaghbawn 1996-98. Bear in mind, when Cross won their first Ulster Title, Mullaghbawn were the existing Ulster Club Champions, and their team had the McNultys, Geezer, Neil Smyth and Benny Tierney as it's backbone, and were still a formidable side - if memory serves me well, Cross beat Mullaghbawn in Silverbridge in 1996 in a quarter final, and pulled away late on to win by 4/5. They met again in the 1997 final, and Cross, the exisitng All Ireland Club Champions, edged it by a point. After that, Mullaghbawn began to lose their big players, and faded away - they were for those three years, in my opinion, a top five in Ulster side - their clashes with Cross would support that.

Clan na Gael 1997-99. Another club littered with excellent players at the peak of their powers, the O'Hagans, John Campbell, Philip Oldham, the Marsdens - won back to back Armagh titles in 1993/94, hammering the Mullaghbawn side in the 1994 final that would go on to win Ulster a year later. Not as good as Mullaghbawn above, but I would have said a top 6/7 side in Ulster in the period above. 

Pearse Og 1999-2001. Alright, pains me to say it, but they had a very good team in this period, but were unfortunate to come up against Cross at the height of their powers in 1999 and 2000. The Ogs had a very young team, full of exciting footballers, and in my opinion would have been a top 9 club in Ulster at that time. This was the first time though that I saw serious challengers who clearly had a mental block about Cross. From 2001 on, they fell to three in the County as the challenge of Dromintee arose, and Dromintee were a hurdle that they could not overcome. The Ogs came back again in the first round in 2005 and had Cross at their mercy on two occasions, but the mental block arose again, and a few chances to finish them off were not taken. Plus Dessie Henderson had one of his more eccentric performances at a vital time!   The real losers that night though were Dromintee! 

Dromintee 2001-2004. Another excellent side full of great footballers. They run Cross close on a few occasions, at a point where both sides were giving their all and the result was very much in doubt. Were the second serious challenger however to come undone by the mental block, when winning chances presented themselves. After a  few defeats, it was clear that Cross had their number. In my opinion, that Dromintee side were top five in Ulster - no question about it they would have been in the running for an Ulster Club Title - they just could not get out of their own County. I get the impression though that Dromintee now feel that their chance has gone and they now play with the acceptance that they will not win the County title. I believe this lack of self belief is now shared by the other main contenders.

As of now, Cross are way out in front and comfortably so. Dromintee, in my opinion, would be second on their own and after that I would see a group of Ogs, Harps, Mullaghbawn with Maghery showing signs of improvement. 

The one point that I would reiterate here, and as mentioned above, Crossmaglen's dominance has reached the stage whereby they have matches won due to their reputation/aura. I can think of a number of games over the years where Cross were there for the taking and the opposition baulked at the magnitude of what they were about to do, and the chance was lost!

[Armaghtothebone]

Am I wrong in saying that in the 70's/80's after a Kerry team won an All Ireland they went on the lash til Feb and then got really stuck in to training?

As one of our lads once said one winter "our year revolves about football and drink and some of us haven't seen a ball in months"

Do the present team still do that?

Of course they do, you have to find time to celebrate and unwind for a few months, and there will be some piss up if/when they land the 3-in-a-row in '08.

If this team win 3 in a row (as an Ulsterman it pains me to say it),and I can see no one stopping them then they will in my humble opinion be the best Kerry team since 1974(when I first started watching football.

[rrhf]

So football begain in 74 then?

[bennydorano]

I've stated on this board before that Dromintee would have won, at the very least, an Ulster if they could've got past Cross, not that's it's any consolation to them now.  Hard to know what's around the corner but I'd expect Cross to get 15 in a row in Armagh, as has been said here already they've rode their luck on numerous ocassions and all it needs is a decent side and Cross's luck to desert them for a night for it all to come crashing down.

I suppose the big diference between these sides is that Cross had to play a right few games to win their AI's.

[ONeill]

Mirroring the way Crossmaglen took out Kelly last week, I'd see them wiping out Pat Spillane after 14 minutes - a sort of clumsy Bellew shoulder. Bomber would be starved of the ball. Sheehy would find himself tracking Kernan. It'd be 0-8 to 0-6 in favour of Kerry at the short whistle. Frustration would get the better of O'Shea and he's clothesline McEntee. Off. Final score: Crossmaglen 0-11 Kerry 0-10.

[Rav67]

Be careful not to talk shite.

Derry have probably the best record in the competition. 10 titles beween 5 clubs.

Ballinderry, Loup, Bellaghy, Lavey, Dungiven

I'll add Ballerin to that list, on behalf of my old buddy Rav67

Thanks steve, people seem to have forgotten that famous run.  The sleeping giant will awake again some day soon.

[From the Bunker]

The best way one can come up with a comparison of the above is Weight divisions in boxing! Kerry - Ali, Cross - Leonard. Ali would have whipped Leonard, but in their respective weight divisions they were kings. Look Cross have won Ulster and AI titles having to play 10 plus games! How many games did it take Kerry to win their 8 AIs.......24 plus a few mickey mouse earlier round games ( Note that the Munster council has arranged for this to happen again with seeding this year!). In that respect Crosses achievements are amazing.

Footnote: If Kerry is the home/Kings of Football, how come they have struggled in recent years to win club, under 21, minor, Munster and AI titles?

[Frank Casey]

The best way one can come up with a comparison of the above is Weight divisions in boxing! Kerry - Ali, Cross - Leonard. Ali would have whipped Leonard, but in their respective weight divisions they were kings. Look Cross have won Ulster and AI titles having to play 10 plus games! How many games did it take Kerry to win their 8 AIs.......24 plus a few mickey mouse earlier round games ( Note that the Munster council has arranged for this to happen again with seeding this year!). In that respect Crosses achievements are amazing.

Footnote: If Kerry is the home/Kings of Football, how come they have struggled in recent years to win club, under 21, minor, Munster and AI titles?

And if Cross/Armagh football is so strong how come Armagh have only one AI senior inter county. Not being smart but one of the imponderables of kerry football recently is a lack of AI success at underage yet there's one or two coming in to the senior panel every year and a successful senior panel at that.

[From the Bunker]

The best way one can come up with a comparison of the above is Weight divisions in boxing! Kerry - Ali, Cross - Leonard. Ali would have whipped Leonard, but in their respective weight divisions they were kings. Look Cross have won Ulster and AI titles having to play 10 plus games! How many games did it take Kerry to win their 8 AIs.......24 plus a few mickey mouse earlier round games ( Note that the Munster council has arranged for this to happen again with seeding this year!). In that respect Crosses achievements are amazing.

Footnote: If Kerry is the home/Kings of Football, how come they have struggled in recent years to win club, under 21, minor, Munster and AI titles?

And if Cross/Armagh football is so strong how come Armagh have only one AI senior inter county. Not being smart but one of the imponderables of kerry football recently is a lack of AI success at underage yet there's one or two coming in to the senior panel every year and a successful senior panel at that.

As i said different weight divisions, both are/were very strong in their respective grade, this does not transfer when out of their grade.

On the Kerry Footnote, It puzzles me at the lack of success for such at strong football county at other grades other than Senior. Is club football in Kerry weak as there seems to be little or no success AI wise there for 15 years plus? Or could it be the Ulster excuise that it is so hard to win the county title, you are burn't out for AI and Munster title challenges.....But sure the cream always rises to the top!

[Rufus T Firefly]

The best way one can come up with a comparison of the above is Weight divisions in boxing! Kerry - Ali, Cross - Leonard. Ali would have whipped Leonard, but in their respective weight divisions they were kings. Look Cross have won Ulster and AI titles having to play 10 plus games! How many games did it take Kerry to win their 8 AIs.......24 plus a few mickey mouse earlier round games ( Note that the Munster council has arranged for this to happen again with seeding this year!). In that respect Crosses achievements are amazing.

Footnote: If Kerry is the home/Kings of Football, how come they have struggled in recent years to win club, under 21, minor, Munster and AI titles?

And if Cross/Armagh football is so strong how come Armagh have only one AI senior inter county. Not being smart but one of the imponderables of kerry football recently is a lack of AI success at underage yet there's one or two coming in to the senior panel every year and a successful senior panel at that.

As i said different weight divisions, both are/were very strong in their respective grade, this does not transfer when out of their grade.

On the Kerry Footnote, It puzzles me at the lack of success for such at strong football county at other grades other than Senior. Is club football in Kerry weak as there seems to be little or no success AI wise there for 15 years plus? Or could it be the Ulster excuise that it is so hard to win the county title, you are burn't out for AI and Munster title challenges.....But sure the cream always rises to the top!

Kerry club football does though have an illustrious record in the All Ireland Club. Laune Rangers, Castleisland Desmonds, Dr Crokes, Austin Stacks and East Kerry have all won the title once each. I think an Gaeltacht also have a title, if my memory serves me well! 

[Armaghtothebone]

So football begain in 74 then?

No I suspect that football started sometime shortly after a group of fellows got together in a hotel in Thurles sometime arround 1884.
As I only started watching football in 1974 I felt unable to pass comment on Kerry teams from before then you complete half wit.