Author Topic: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?  (Read 20120 times)

zoyler

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Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2007, 10:15:36 AM »
Interesting post Bogball - but you have overlooked the giggest flaw of all.  Once you introduce payment ( not straight grants) for which work is expected you introduce the law and that will lead to Bopsman cases etc.  It is indeed the slippery s;ope to proffisionalism and we will end up going the way of Rugby in this country.

lynchbhoy

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Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2007, 11:44:56 AM »
I dont think we can do much about this drain - apart from ressurect the international rules series and hope that aussie teams will for some reason NOT pick our players
Other than this, I cant see why aussie clubs would agree to pay the GAA money for lads they can get for free.
It is a different sporting code after all.
If a deal could be brokered then maybe, but I really doubt that this would happen.

All I can hope for is that the amount of young players going over is kept to a minimum.
We could live with that.
the likes of Colin corkery, John O'Driscoll, Anthony Tohill and Dermot mc Nicholl all benefitted from a year or two's aussie rules training, but didnt like being a way so came home. Hope there are more like that.
..........

Hardy

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Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2007, 11:58:40 AM »
Fair play, Bogball for suggesting something - more than anybody else has thought of to date anyway. I can see some sense in your proposals. I can't see how anyone in favour of scholarships for academically-minded players with potential could object to employment for non-academic players with potential. And there is some logic in the position that if we are to do something about players being lured away with money, then the solution has to involve money and we are in a Hobson's choice position - we either accept the need to pay money in certain circumstances or accept our future role as unpaid nursery organisation for the professional AFL.

It could be seen as the thin end of the professionalism wedge, it would be fraught with problems in selecting the beneficiaries and zoyler's points make sense too but, viewed as essentially an extension of the scholarship scheme and limited to players below a certain age, it's not altogether off the wall.

Mike Sheehy

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Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2007, 08:02:11 PM »
Professionalism in the GAA is coming and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. I dont particularily want to see it happen but cant see any way of stopping it. As for young lads joining AFL we have no right to stop it. If you are a  good young engineer, lawyer, whatever, how would you react if someone tried to limit your prospects ? 

 I have already come to the conclusion that I will try and enjoy whatever success Kerry have now becasue 10-15 years from now professionalism will be here and we, Kerry, will not be able to compete at the highest level with the major population centers. We'll probably be like Laois are today, there or thereabouts but not quite strong enough. It'll be dominated by Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Galway.

Rossfan

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Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2007, 09:05:30 PM »
Professionalism in the GAA is coming . It'll be dominated by Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Galway.

Hardly by Galway -- in football anyway - as they wouldnt get any crowds. :P
Seriously though it's a frightening thought . As Professionals and therefore employees it will be highest bidder gets the best players so no hope ever for the Carlows Leitrims,Roscommons Cavans etc etc.
However if we end up with 8 or 10 artificial professional sides who'll be bothered going to watch them play each other 6 or 7 times a year ? I couldnt see it lasting more that 5 or 6 years till the whole thing would die of boredom and lack of interest.
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Bogball XV

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Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2007, 10:10:04 PM »
Interesting post Bogball - but you have overlooked the giggest flaw of all.  Once you introduce payment ( not straight grants) for which work is expected you introduce the law and that will lead to Bopsman cases etc.  It is indeed the slippery s;ope to proffisionalism and we will end up going the way of Rugby in this country.
Rugby seem to have worked the system via the centralised contracts system, ie GAA at Croke Park are the employer, but you're right, everything would have to take account of whatever the relevant legislation is, I think that could be overcome, I feel the most contentious issues would be within counties, and as to who exactly would get what contracts, of course that would always be the way unless every player was getting the same.
One interesting thing to come out of the system I proposed, the leagues might take on a bit more importance, relegation battles would be that wee bit more intense!!

Frank Casey

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Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2007, 10:13:54 PM »
I sadly agree with Mike Sheehy on this. The pro game will kill the GAA as we know it and we'll end up with less than a dozen viable "franchises". There's another thread going on about the development of GAA in Britain. Maybe we'd end up with a British or North American outfit. Although if this is as successful as the attempt to bring an english soccer team to Dublin a few years ago then I don't know. I think they ended up in Milton Keynes.

We've seen a number of Scottish and Welsh rugby teams go under following professionalism. The League of Ireland lurches from one financial crisis to another and thats only on a semi-pro basis.

Please don't kill the GAA family as we know it for a few franchises - cos thats all they's be.
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stiffler

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Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2007, 12:30:44 AM »
From BBC:


Tyrone youngster gets AFL trial 
 
Kyle Coney impressed for Tyrone minors this year
Tyrone minor star Kyle Coney will travel to Australia next June for a two-week trial with the Sydney Swans.
The 17-year-old Ardboe clubman is the latest young GAA star to be targeted by an Australian Rules club.

Tadhg Kennelly and Carlow's Brendan Murphy are already on the books of the Sydney AFL club, who watched Coney during this year's All-Ireland MFC.

Coney, who has been tipped as a future Tyrone senior star, has said that he will not "rush into any decision".

The news is likely to disappoint Tyrone senior manager Mickey Harte, who is vocal in his opposition to the GAA's links with the Australian code.

Down lad Martin Clarke accepted a contract with AFL club Collingwood last year and he has made a huge impression in the oval ball game in his first full season Down Under.
 
GAABoard Fantasy Cheltenham Competition- Most winners 2009

ziggysego

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Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2007, 01:02:40 AM »
Disappointed that we could lose yet another star to the AFL in Australian. However it is an unbelieveable opportunity, so if Kyle decides to go for it, I wish him all the very best of luck.
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orangeman

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Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2007, 12:17:41 PM »
I've been saying now a long time that these Aussies should NOT be allowed to just come over here, tap you on the shoulder and walk away with your prized asset - I know Kyle is from my own club but I was saying the same thing all along - if they're going to do it - make them pay the club / county he's leaving - in this case Ardboe / Tyrone would have devoted a lot of time and resources to Kyle ( as well as a lot of others )

I agree with Ziggy - good luck to him  - he's a nice lad and fair play - he's talented but I really resent the Aussies coming here and walking away without having to incur a financial penalty.

Mickey Harte was and is right - don't engage with the Aussies.

Puckoon

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Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2007, 12:46:43 PM »
no chance (nor should there be) of that ever happening. these players are not properties of the club.

tayto

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Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2007, 04:21:03 PM »
I think this is a full-blown crisis for the game. And I have no idea what to do about it.
I think we have to offer them an alternative - that alternative has to involve allowing them the opportunity to live the life of a professional athlete.  I know we can't afford the money that AFL clubs can offer (although my understanding is that it's pittance unless they make the grade, which is probably why Cavanagh turned it down).  I do think however that we can offer enough to ensure that lads get a chance at living the dream for a while.  We have enough money to waste on stupid unneeded stadia, maybe we should think about spending some of that money on the players, without who, we wouldn't have a game, no matter how many volunteers sweep the changing rooms and line the pitches.
The paid players would be essentially full time gaa coaches in schools etc, they'd be available for other duties within the county too - this would take up most of their mornings, the rest of their days could be spent on their training programme.  I would envisage a salary around 30K p.a for this - it won't make them rich, but it will adequately provide for them until they decide they've got to take a real job.  They would be helped in every way with skills for a future career, be it tradesmen to professional.  There could be a second tier of players too, those who wish to work part time, give them a grant of 15K p.a, just enough to help them fund their dedication to their sport.  The other inter-county players could be paid lower sums, up to 5K p.a.
The amount of each type of bursary to be allocated to each county could be decided by their league division, with hurling and football treated equally, in fact a little too much time on my hands I've come up with the following:

Bursary:     30,000          15,000          5,000          2,000
Division 1      4                   4                  15              10
Division 2      2                   2                   5               24
Division 3      1                   2                   4               26
Division 4      1                   1                   3               28

In total this would amount to 9.3M - if the govt were still going to input their 5M, the GAA could come up with a further 4.9M p.a (if we look at the money the GPA bring in, the GAA could easily bring in this amount for players payment from sponsors and commerical deals, oh yeah, a side benefit, this should remove the need for the GPA to exist anymore)  It's not particularly expensive and it might help stem the talent drain.  Another reason why I feel we should go down the pay for play route, is that our immigrant population will not be attracted to play our games unless there is the chance to play professionally (allbeit limited).  I know there are many flaws in the proposal above, sorry, make that, many, many flaws - but I also think it's easily affordable and maybe it's time we considered something along these lines?  We'd need to introduce things like balloon payments, centralised contracts, arbitration committees, standardised qualification criteria......

One other thing Dubsforsam has pointed out, getting money from ozzie clubs is an absolute non-runner, if they want to donate the money fine, I can't see it happening, but....  Btw, what would the club do with the money, build a new stand?



interesting idea there bogball, i can see some merit in that but look at rugby, apparently even the biggest rugby clubs are fielding about half the teams they did before professionalism was introduced 10 years ago. If we do go down the semi-professional route then we'd better be prepared to lose a lot of volunteers + clubs. Professional or semi-professional players could be asked to play a lot more games.

the Deel Rover

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Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2007, 05:32:31 PM »
 i have been involved with a club all my life  down the road i hope my son plays all sports and i will encourage him to do so hopefull he has the same gra for gaelic games as i do and i hope that i will be bringing him training, driving him to matches, fundraising ect and support him and our club just as my parents have done for me. If for e.g he was good enough (doubtfull if he has many of my genes) to be asked to go for trials and play in Australia why should the club benefit financially as they have no rights to him and he is not the property of the club.
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tayto

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Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2007, 06:41:26 PM »
The thinking is that a club that invests so much time coaching a younfella so maybe they're entitled to a bit of compensation. Obviously there's no way to enforce this as the AFL is a different code altogether, the only way would be n the AFL and GAA come to some agreement and without the IR there's no reason for the AFL to agree to this. 

DUBSFORSAM1

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Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2007, 07:12:49 PM »
The thinking is that a club that invests so much time coaching a younfella so maybe they're entitled to a bit of compensation. Obviously there's no way to enforce this as the AFL is a different code altogether, the only way would be n the AFL and GAA come to some agreement and without the IR there's no reason for the AFL to agree to this. 

So if someone moves to another club in the contry do they have to pay as well???