To unite or not to unite, that is the question.

[magickingdom]

classic post lone shark 

however unity wont cost a fortune. the comparsion to e and w germany is constantly brought up but its apples and oranges. e germany was a basket case after decades of communists failure, the north is in far better shape!

[Mentalman]

5times has hit the nail on the head. The agenda now ongoing is to go as softly as possible and to avoid having to get the mandate of the people at any stage. How anyone can be amazed by the selfishness of the southern electorate after everything that's gone on never ceases to mystify me - if Bertie Ahern went to the electorate with a manifesto of shooting everyone over 80 years of age and as a result the subsequent lack of pension expenditure would mean huge tax cuts for everyone else, he'd still poll 40% and pull together a coalition government. God knows half the 82 year olds would probably vote for him too, since you couldn't be voting for someone that was on the wrong side of the civil war after all. We've been an "I'm all right Jack" society ever since we fell for Jack Lynch's ridiculous promises in the late seventies, and we'll never be anything different.


If this issue is brought to the polls, there is not a hope of the southern electorate passing it, and every minister and potential minister down here knows it - cross border bodies will multiply like weeds in the coming decade. As for 2016 - never. 2060 maybe.

Top class

Seriously at the end of the day it would be about sentiment not economics. Like I said who will make an economic arguement against? Even if there is one to be made. Not at least pretending to have Republican credentials, or paying lip service to them, in the South is electoral suicide - Michael McDowell dragged out his ancestors when challenged on his hatred of the Shinners during the Frank McDonnald affair, Garret Fitzgerald's parents fought in the GPO during the uprising etc.

As to whether that question will ever be put to the people...not a chance in my opinion. That would take the agreement of the assembly and both parliaments so I can't see it happening, as not one major politician down here has the character to even start that debate - we will be in cosy consensus territory for a long time more I feel. In fact there are no great politicians here anymore, we have a bunch of dwarves in kings' clothing.

[Canalman]

I would worry more about the c40% of Catholics in the 6 counties who would imo vote against an United Ireland. Castle Catholics would have to be weaned over to the united Ireland cause for there to be a UI.
Alot of people forget how conservative we are as a nation and that alot of people are terrified of change.

Very easy for Northern Nationalists to turn a blind eye to this glaring fact and to blame the nefarious Mexicans for everything.

[J70]

I think we need to be careful here - theres potential for the huge pro unionist vote in the South to default and vote that the free state is returned to the UK.  Have any of you tried to reason with these people?  I refer you to the denationalisation of irish rugby thread.  Theres a lot of people ashamed to be Irish in and outside the GAA.   Add to that the huge Northern vote of those whose only claim to being British is that their parents told them that their grandparents were - a significant if poorly thought out choice of opinion, then I could see Britain actiually reclaiming Ireland in a number of years.  As they say all it talkes for no sense to prevail is for good people to do nothing...   

There was plenty of reasoning done on that rugby thread, and the bulk of it by those who were arguing the case that a neutral song and flag were a very small and fair price to pay to accommodate those from the unionist tradition who are also represented by that team. Most of what I heard from the objectors was emotion and bitterness.

Your argument about unionists only claim to Britishness being through their grandparents is dumb, and could probably even be thrown at nationalists in the north regarding their Irishness (to show how really dumb it is!). Hardly the stuff of rational debate anyhow. I hope you have something better to bring to the unionists. Judging by the reaction to something as trivial as Ireland's Call, I have my doubts.

Personally, (although I'd have to weigh the issues) I probably would vote for a united Ireland, but it wouldn't be because I am afraid of being called un-Irish or a traitor. If emotion and name-calling is the extent of the pro-unification position, you can cross me off the yes column right now.

[muppet]

Some very good replies here.

My point about the immigrants was more to do with those who stay long term. Eventually if they have any sense they will become franchised and they may have a big bearing on what happens. It seems naive to me to assume that they will all go home someday or that they will stay but never vote.

I don't buy the idea of achieving a United Ireland by stealth, its not as if anyone could sneak it through. More like a United Ireland by a thousand cuts and judging by the way Paisley threatens to pull down Stormont every time anyone mentions the letters IRA there will a tense stand-off each time one of those thousand cuts is inflicted. However I do accept that the momentum, however slow, is in the direction of a 32 county Ireland.

Northerners needn't worry about the bone fides of Southerners Nationalistic sentiments. Southerners complain about everything political. That should not be read as a lack of interest or patriotism. Show any Southerner a map of this island and ask them whether it should be divided and you'll get your answer (with the exception of Dermot Mannion ).

[marty88]

the answer is chuck norris

[Rav67]

I would worry more about the c40% of Catholics in the 6 counties who would imo vote against an United Ireland. Castle Catholics would have to be weaned over to the united Ireland cause for there to be a UI.
Alot of people forget how conservative we are as a nation and that alot of people are terrified of change.

Very easy for Northern Nationalists to turn a blind eye to this glaring fact and to blame the nefarious Mexicans for everything.

Britain would happily vote for it whether or not it would b decided by Westminster or by referendum would not make ay difference.  It would be hard to tell how the South would go in a referendum, but my instincts tells me they would probably vote no as the economic conditions would never be quite right.

However, as Canalman says, it would be irrelevant anyway because even if demographics change and the North becomes 55% Catholic and there was a 5-10% immigrant population, when it came to a vote the majority would be a clear endorsement of the status quo.  Immigrants would be happier with what they know and vote to keep the Union or more likely not vote at all.  Almost all Protestants would vote to keep the Union, while many Catholics, even those who describe themselves as Nationalists, would fear any negative effects it might bring in the short term and would either abstain or vote against unity.  I would love to see a united Ireland but IMO it will not happen this century.