Players on Strike?/Real Debate (Merged)

[Clubmember]

Professional sport by its very essence is corrupt

Jeez Dec, you've been on this board too long!


Personally, I don't blame the players for having a go at looking for money. But just because the look for it doesnt mean we have to give it to them. Maybe there will come a time in the distant future when its the right thing to do, but there's no chance of the GAA directly paying its intercounty players in the short or even medium term. Therefore i think its ridiculous when people get so uptight about the players looking for money and calling them all kinds of names (its not going to happen, so relax) - this from the same people who turn a complete blind eye to managers getting paid. And of course there are some players in some counties who get money from sources other than the county board. I know of one for certain who got money not to go to Oz, and doubtless there are others - albeit in total it'd be small proportion.


As for the hoopla about there'd be nobody to line the pitches etc etc if we started paying players. Utter utter nonsense.

Agreed. By the way  good point made there about managers/lads already being paid. What is the scholarship grant all about? The GAA are paying players those grants. Why isn't anyone up in arms over this? Every college in country is trying to attract players with all sorts of deals. Also read something on a thread about a "transfer market" developing ..well I hate to break it to you but check your rulebook there is already a transfer market in place in the GAA.

[ziggysego]

Welcome to the board clubmember.

However if you want to get members of the board to response in a proper manner, you shouldn't start your first post/thread off by attacking the existing member and berating the threads which already exist. You're doing yourself no favours.

[lynchbhoy]

Professional sport by its very essence is corrupt

Jeez Dec, you've been on this board too long!


Personally, I don't blame the players for having a go at looking for money. But just because the look for it doesnt mean we have to give it to them. Maybe there will come a time in the distant future when its the right thing to do, but there's no chance of the GAA directly paying its intercounty players in the short or even medium term. Therefore i think its ridiculous when people get so uptight about the players looking for money and calling them all kinds of names (its not going to happen, so relax) - this from the same people who turn a complete blind eye to managers getting paid. And of course there are some players in some counties who get money from sources other than the county board. I know of one for certain who got money not to go to Oz, and doubtless there are others - albeit in total it'd be small proportion.


As for the hoopla about there'd be nobody to line the pitches etc etc if we started paying players. Utter utter nonsense.

Agreed. By the way  good point made there about managers/lads already being paid. What is the scholarship grant all about? The GAA are paying players those grants. Why isn't anyone up in arms over this? Every college in country is trying to attract players with all sorts of deals. Also read something on a thread about a "transfer market" developing ..well I hate to break it to you but check your rulebook there is already a transfer market in place in the GAA.

well I am sure there are a lot more strange anomalies against the Koran , sorry  - GAA Rulebook if you look hard enough and throw a creative slant and viewpoint on them.
Transfer market - well it could be construed as that, but to me it is hardly offensive , its not intercounty transfers and the crux of it all is plain and simple - no intercounty transfers.

Paying managers is also something I dont mind, if its an outside man. Kind of irritates me if a club man looks for money , but even then , some gesture should be made.
Players will always play for nothing, they will take whatever free stuff/gear/holidays etc that you give them.
But they dont do it for those items.
Managers spend as long or longer, away from families (as the nature of the job is such that they are older) and in a higher bracket of earning potential. So money to them is not a problem. The amounts of money are a bit OTT at times.
Players quite often get their jobs/careers through being recognised GAA players. We dont complain about that.
All the funds earned by the GAA are generally put to good use educating, building, recompensing and developing the futures of our own.
I Hardly have any problem with this !

[Clubmember]

No issue at all with paying managers for what they do but lets not start being hypocritical about payments. I can't understand how nobody has an issue with these players getting this money ,,,"as long as its not on our watch" nobody is talking about professionalism here it's just an extension of a grant scheme already administered by the GAA to students.

[AZOffaly]

I'll try and reply to these individually.....

AZ Offaly:
As to your point, I'm afraid I disagree with practically all of it. The GAA may be an amateur organisation, apart from a few full time paid officials, but that does not mean it doesn't need money. In fact an amateur organisation with so many clubs and teams up and down the country needs every penny it can get, but not to give to the players, managers or anyone else, apart from their deserved and fair expenses.
A: I agree it needs money to know but let's get the most out of it's biggest cash cow (players) and recognise them. I don't think the GPA aren't even officially recognised....that is a joke and making a mockery out of a system they support financially.

I'm not sure what you mean by the 'cash cow' statement, unless you mean make them professional so you can work them harder, and maximise returns while paying them? If so I am against that completely. As for the GPA, it is recognised by the GAA, and in fact Dessie Farrell (I think) sits on some decision making boards about player welfare within the GAA.

The GAA makes money, and quite rightly ploughs it back into infrastructure, coaching, preparing teams, maintaining grounds, grants and other costs involved in running a huge association, from Junior hurling clubs in Mayo to Senior Inter county teams. That's where all the money is needed, and that is where it goes in the most part.
A: I don't think anyone would disagree with that but there is plenty of money floating around the GAA and plenty more could be made too!

There is plenty of money floating around, but it is all earmarked for some purpose such as re-investment in the clubs etc etc. There is not some huge slush fund sitting somewhere for the President to dip into for family holidays or something

In my opinion, the structure of Club and County is fine as it is, although I would like to see a slightly shorter inter-county season to allow the clubs have more access to their best players.
A: Defo agreed....pain in arse as a club player hanging around. Although a decent fixture list would probably sort this. Some report out this week might help

We are in agreement here. I think the club players get messed around, but as you say there are some proposals to hopefully sort this out.

I would be totally against payment as any sort of reward for playing the games, but I would like to see them properly looked after, which in fairness is a lot better these days, certainly since I played at a decent level back in the 90s. I remember the county secretary coming in and making us go and get back the jersies we had swapped after a game!
By all means look after the players with gear, holidays, injury funds, masseurs, physio etc etc.
A: What is "properly looked after?" How much gear? I know a lad that was out of work for 12 weeks through injury and if you check the injury scheme (not an insurance scheme) for all players (club&county) you are not entitled to loss of earnings all you get is: week1 - nothing week2-4 €200 per week. You do the maths ! Also heard from a london player that they have no scheme have to wait on NHS waiting lists.  Also take a player ...say Galway or Waterford playing in this years championship...they are only entitled to PURCHASE 2 tickets from county board for all irleland. That's hardly fair when members of central council automatically get a large number of tickets for their efforts throughout the year (they are also entitled as is an GAA official to claim mileage etc)

This has been discussed here a lot, but basically my motto is 'No player should be paid to play, and No player should PAY to play'. What that means is a proper mileage expense should be paid for travel to training, games etc; 2 pairs of boots a year (mouldies and screw in), training gear, tracksuits, polo shirts; runners for the gym; gym memberships; meals after training and matches (including wives and girlfriends at matches(one per player )); 2 complimentary All Ireland tickets for the players, plus an option to buy 2 more; Physio bills paid; Medical expenses paid; A holiday once a year, either as a group or in the form of a voucher for the player and partner;  etc etc. I would NOT be in favour of reimbursing for lost 'overtime'. There would be other areas, but this would be my basic starting point. Make the players feel valued, and look after them when they get hurt playing our games.

There is not universal acceptance that coaches, managers etc get paid.  _ I have to argue that with yuou and also clarify - Not all managers are paid but a lot are. Nickey Brennan promised he was going to root them out but did nothing about it. If we are not going to tolerate payments to them, lets not!
I would be totally against that, apart from legitimate expenses.
Outside people employed by the GAA to do a paid service is a different matter. Those people are not necessarily even members of the organisation, so why would they provide catering services etc for free? That's their job. A: At this stage playing is like a full time job ; we all know what they give. Effectively caterers make a profit for the GAA, so do players, what's the difference? It's sad to think in Croke park on a match day almost everyone working there is paid (including officials - through regular employments or tickets etc) expect the most valuable asset we have to promote our games. I'm a club player I get f**ked over with fixtures and peed off at the county lads coming back into set up but I know that my team will not fund the club for a year and that the level we are at training /playing wise is at about 50% of the county lads.

Playing might (definitely is) a huge commitment, but it is not a job. Players can, if they wish, walk away at any time. The people getting paid are getting paid for doing their jobs. There is a clear distinction there in my view. The key point here is that nobody in the GAA is making a killing off the players' efforts, except the GAA itself, the association, and all that money is distributed as I already mentioned. As you say, the players play for love of the game, and being looked after, coupled with this Burn out initiative and the Fixtures proposals should improve their lot again. Hopefully the Government grants issue should be sorted out as well.

I don't expect people to be swayed on this, generally you are of one view or the other, but in my opinion once the players are properly looked after in terms of proper expenses and the various bits and bobs that make their life a bit easier, perks if you will, then there should be no basis for making them professional.

[Clubmember]

Welcome to the board clubmember.

However if you want to get members of the board to response in a proper manner, you shouldn't start your first post/thread off by attacking the existing member and berating the threads which already exist. You're doing yourself no favours.

Thanks ziggysego. Certainly not my intention to attack anyone. I was speaking in general terms about type of debating.

[BennyHarp]

Agreed. By the way  good point made there about managers/lads already being paid. What is the scholarship grant all about? The GAA are paying players those grants. Why isn't anyone up in arms over this?

Nobody is up in arms because theres nothing wrong with it and as far as i know the grants are sponsored by private businesses and not from GAA coffers.

We are in a very unique organisation, so why do we have to be pigeon holed into whether we are professional or amateur - the truth of the matter is that the GAA is placed somewhere in between and is very successful in this unique position!

[darbyo]

There are numerous issues raised by Clubmembers thread(welcome aboard, by the way) but to take the last one you posted on first, people complaining about payment to mangers or 3rd level bursaries. I still play football and hurling but have, in the last 2-3 years become much more involved in the coaching and managing of teams (all of which I do for nothing). But it is so time consuming that I would feel justified in taking a few bob if offered. Now just to clear up a few things, I have been offered money to do this but because all the teams I'm involved with are teams I have an attachment with I don't  even accept petrol money but because I understand the time commitment involved I wouldn't begruge payment to any committed quality coach/manager. As for bursaries to 3rd level students, the money from Croke Park is fairly small and might work out at €1000 for the year to the successful applicant, if there are colleges paying for accomodation, fees, etc. then that isn't coming from GAA coffers. Other sports are offering these bursaries to students also, so the GAA is only keeping the playing field level. It's a far cry from professionalism and is not comparable to paying inter-county players.

[deiseach]

Sorry, what was the question again?

I'm not being facetious with that. Most of the issues you allude to are discussed as a matter of routine on this board, as Gnevin's post confirms, and to try and join that debate by saying that there hasn't been a "real" debate until you brought your Cicero-like skills to the party is just plain rude.

[believebelive]

The problem with this is that there are far too many 'a la carte GAA' people about. I find it absolutley absurd that people can argue that a manager deserves 'paid' because of the time and effort that he puts in. Even if he does give more time and effort to the job than the player (doubtful in my opinion but I am prepared to concede the point for the sake of the argument) it would be very easy for the player to say that his lifestyle sacrifices are much more than the manager.
But anyway all this is somantics. The bottom line is this. managers, coaches and players should not be paid or receieve grant aid for playing the game.

Has anyone read what the players will be entitled to claim for if this thing goes through - internet usage, tax, insurance - why should players get this incentive and ordinary members not.

The GAA has royally messed this up. They have conceded the principal and have looked the other way to payment of manager. The Association will be unrecognisable in 20 years.

[lynchbhoy]

No issue at all with paying managers for what they do but lets not start being hypocritical about payments. I can't understand how nobody has an issue with these players getting this money ,,,"as long as its not on our watch" nobody is talking about professionalism here it's just an extension of a grant scheme already administered by the GAA to students.

I dont think it is even in the same planet let alone same ball park to be honest.
Apart from money being used in these cases, you are talking about a new concept completely.

Grants/payments/butter vouchers to players is py for play - professionalism.
The association cannot sustain this and give money to the underage development of our games as well - let alone the rest.
think of it
32 counties (do we factor in NY, San Fran, Boston, England, London, Warwickshire, Luton, Scotland , Cayman islands, Australia etc then)
With 32 counties with 30 men per squad then double that as the same must go for hurling...
thats not a lot of money left per man...
Then what about Womens sports - Camogie and Football. Then Handball and then Gaelic rounders....Scor, Fleadh ceoils....etc etc

We cannot pay for all of these as we do not and will not get the same kind of revenue as the eg Champions league in soccer gets.
If we could , then I'd be all for it, and pay our lads.
We cannot bankrupt our association because of some honourable , yes alas , fanciful notion.

[lynchbhoy]

The problem with this is that there are far too many 'a la carte GAA' people about. I find it absolutley absurd that people can argue that a manager deserves 'paid' because of the time and effort that he puts in. Even if he does give more time and effort to the job than the player (doubtful in my opinion but I am prepared to concede the point for the sake of the argument) it would be very easy for the player to say that his lifestyle sacrifices are much more than the manager.
But anyway all this is somantics. The bottom line is this. managers, coaches and players should not be paid or receieve grant aid for playing the game.

Fine
Ban the payment of managers. All clubs adhere to this, then you will find that there are a few GAA mad fellas that will coach teams, but most then would not be bothered and clubs will find it hard to attract a manager (and any internal manager will cause a huge political row in the divided club - we all have seen this kind of scenario).
So the clubs will start having to find ways to pay these guys under the table again and its back to square one.
However, I dont see a lack of players wanting to play for their counties.
When conditions are bad, they let the county board know and action is usually taken - irrespective on how inept or tight fisted the county board are.

[deiseach]

It isn't the potential for bankruptcy that bother me about the paying of players. It's that the association would be opening itself up to events over which it could not have control. Can you see the parish rule (for example) surviving a scenario where a player could earn more playing for a different club / county?

[Bud Wiser]

After unsuccesfully fighting off the keyboard there are a few points I would like to make in relation to clubmembers post.  I don't know exactly what the main point is after reading it twice, is it about board members clapping themselves on the back and hiding behind avitars or that players should or should not get paid?

I think it's a real shame that there isn't any proper debate in place here. It seems to just be a place for a few browned off individuals to rant and rave and make personal attacks under the mask of the faceless internet usernames.

My real name is Tom Fennelly by the way.  Anyway, lets deal with the issue of players being paid/not paid, a topic that has been discussed many times on this board.  There is a phrase used in GAA circles, has been for years, called "Looking After Players" and in previous debates most everyone agrees that all players, especially those who play at intercounty level should be looked after.

There are two ways of doing this, one is through the GAA and the other is through a players association who have professional representatives acting on their behalf.  My own belief is that players have been looked after by the GAA in the past, are now and will be looked after in the future.  If they feel they are not being treated fairly then I believe that the GAA (Nicky Brennan) is a fair and reasonable option to directly negotiate with.  What amuses me is the level of membership required by the GPA to negotiate a simple agreement between the GAA and players and the amount of iced water drank at TV Press Conferences by representatives form the GPA who are demonstrating more on a weekly basis that they are loosing credibility.

Let me give you an example.  I have for my sins been involved in the telecom industry all my life, I know about it.  I know nothing about lets say medicine or finance or other professions. So, if I was a player choosing a representative  I would choose someone like Robbie Kellegher who played the game and is a stockbroker or someone involved in financial negotiations as his profession.  Instead the GPA choose a Pyschiatric Nurse.  I do not mean any disrespect to Dessie Farrell but in my world black is black and white is white.  The GPA are now threathning a strike !  They can't organise themselves let alone the players and for the last three years they have been throwing the GAA into turmoil.  Here is just one question to ask your club:

If the GAA obtained a list of the players that the GPA have on their 'membership' list and wrote to them aka Aer Lingus did to the pilots and made them an offer (regardless of what the offer or incentive is) and all the players balloted secretly to accept it do you think the GPA will go away?  The answer is they should but won't and you know that and I know that.

(you can't take away Premium seats or Tony Fearon would never see a game)

[Gaaboardmod3]

Hi All,

I just merged these two topics as the posts were about the same subject and, in fact, the original post was posted once in each thread. Sorry for any confusion.