Irish Civil War veteran dies at 105

[hoopsaaa]

The last surviving IRA veteran of the Irish War of Independence and Civil War has died at the age of 105.

Dan Keating died peacefully near his home in County Kerry.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7026951.stm

[Evil Genius]

I don't normally speak ill of the dead and as I read his story, I tried to understand him as a product of his time.

But he seems to have been a bitter and contrary old man to the very end. I mean to say, falling out with the Pioneers after 50 years - then taking up drinking, as if to spite them! 

Not to mention the much more serious offence of keeping the "war with England" going, even whilst the Nazis were overrunning the rest of Europe: this from the man who tried to kill the Fascist O'Duffy!   

And keeping his hatred going even to his 100th Birthday, with his snub to President McAleese. 

He was the last of his era; let's hope he was also the last of his type. 

[Donagh]

I don't normally speak ill of the dead and as I read his story, I tried to understand him as a product of his time.

But he seems to have been a bitter and contrary old man to the very end. I mean to say, falling out with the Pioneers after 50 years - then taking up drinking, as if to spite them! 

Not to mention the much more serious offence of keeping the "war with England" going, even whilst the Nazis were overrunning the rest of Europe: this from the man who tried to kill the Fascist O'Duffy!   

And keeping his hatred going even to his 100th Birthday, with his snub to President McAleese. 

He was the last of his era; let's hope he was also the last of his type. 

p***k

[scalder]

Great article from the BBC – nothing about his passing on the RTÉ site, which whatever you think of him and his politics is a notable one.

[whiskeysteve]

I don't normally speak ill of the dead and as I read his story, I tried to understand him as a product of his time.

But he seems to have been a bitter and contrary old man to the very end. I mean to say, falling out with the Pioneers after 50 years - then taking up drinking, as if to spite them! 

Not to mention the much more serious offence of keeping the "war with England" going, even whilst the Nazis were overrunning the rest of Europe: this from the man who tried to kill the Fascist O'Duffy!   

And keeping his hatred going even to his 100th Birthday, with his snub to President McAleese. 

He was the last of his era; let's hope he was also the last of his type. 

Lets hope we have more outspoken, idealistic characters like him, a harmless old link to the past, he may rave on and you might not agree with him, but he deserves respect.

In his old age I don't see why he is deserving of such scorn for snubbing the president or indeed taking up drinking, hes living in a free state he fought for, he can do as he pleases.

Go back and wax lyrical on the rugby thread you west brit

[magpie seanie]

The man deserves great respect. He put himself on the line to fight for his beliefs and I for one am glad that him and many others like him did what they did.

[Craic Addict]

God rest him.

A hero.

[Orior]

I don't normally speak ill of the dead and as I read his story, I tried to understand him as a product of his time.

But he seems to have been a bitter and contrary old man to the very end. I mean to say, falling out with the Pioneers after 50 years - then taking up drinking, as if to spite them! 

Not to mention the much more serious offence of keeping the "war with England" going, even whilst the Nazis were overrunning the rest of Europe: this from the man who tried to kill the Fascist O'Duffy!   

And keeping his hatred going even to his 100th Birthday, with his snub to President McAleese. 

He was the last of his era; let's hope he was also the last of his type. 

p***k

LOL

[Evil Genius]

I don't normally speak ill of the dead and as I read his story, I tried to understand him as a product of his time.

But he seems to have been a bitter and contrary old man to the very end. I mean to say, falling out with the Pioneers after 50 years - then taking up drinking, as if to spite them! 

Not to mention the much more serious offence of keeping the "war with England" going, even whilst the Nazis were overrunning the rest of Europe: this from the man who tried to kill the Fascist O'Duffy!   

And keeping his hatred going even to his 100th Birthday, with his snub to President McAleese. 

He was the last of his era; let's hope he was also the last of his type. 

Lets hope we have more outspoken, idealistic characters like him, a harmless old link to the past, he may rave on and you might not agree with him, but he deserves respect.

In his old age I don't see why he is deserving of such scorn for snubbing the president or indeed taking up drinking, hes living in a free state he fought for, he can do as he pleases.

Go back and wax lyrical on the rugby thread you west brit

"Outspoken" or "idealistic" is one thing, but "harmless"? I'm afraid I don't see any of this as harmless:
He remained an unreconstructed militant, left Sinn Fein in 1986 when it voted to end its ban on taking seats in the Irish parliament, and became a patron of the breakaway Republican Sinn Fein...
  ... and attacked the Sinn Fein leadership for entering into power-sharing in Stormont this year.

And as for this:
"A disastrous plan by the IRA to cause sabotage in England during World War II - the S-Plan - brought Dan to England where he led the IRA in London, taking part in bombings of commercial premises and power-stations by night, while he worked as a barman in The Strand in London by day. "
Neutrality is one thing, but imo it is quite contemptible to strike out in this way when Europe was being overrun by the Fascists, especially a (presumably left-leaning) Trades Unionist  . There were many more people with his background and record who had volunteered just a few years earlier to fight Franco in Spain, for example.

As for the drink, of course that is a much less serious issue than revolutionary politics etc and I would be the last person to condemn anyone for enjoying a scoop or two(!). However, I thought it revealing that he abjured drink for decades as a matter of principle, then suddenly forgets his principles when he had a falling out with some individuals or an organisation. This suggested to me that he was, as I originally stated, both bitter and contrary.

And the fact that he lived to be 105 doesn't change that as far as I'm concerned; rather the opposite, in that he managed to maintain his prejudices long after many of his contemporaries and former comrades had managed to let bygones be bygones.

[Evil Genius]

He put himself on the line to fight for his beliefs

You could say the same about the Nazis, whose cause he helped during "The Emergency"...

[hoopsaaa]

Evil Genius  - unfair comments. Do not speak ill of the dead. For you to compare this man with the Nazis just shows me that u are here to cause trouble.

All other posters do NOT TAKE THE BAIT.

[Evil Genius]

For you to compare this man with the Nazis just shows me that u are here to cause trouble.

All other posters do NOT TAKE THE BAIT.

I did not "compare him with the Nazis", rather I pointed out that being prepared to put ones life on the line for ones beliefs does not automatically absolve one of responsibility for ones actions. I might equally have chosen the example of Al Qaida or the Taliban to illustrate, but the Nazis were more apposite, since he took his war to England at the same time as Nazi Germany did. I did, however, compare him with people of a similar background who volunteered for the Foreign Brigades in Spain, to fight Franco and his Nazi allies.

But answer me this, do you think it justified for him to have shown common cause with the Nazis by bombing London at the same time as the Luftwaffe was doing exactly the same?

P.S. Why does my merely expressing an opinion automatically mean I'm coming here "to cause trouble"? Because you disagree with that opinion? Because I am in a minority?
As someone once said, "I don't mind because I meet a lot of people who think the very same as me and we are very happy to be a minority" 

P.P.S. I think people can decide for themselves whether to "rise to the bait" or not. Even Donagh...

[hoopsaaa]

DO NOT TAKE THE BAIT.

[full back]

But answer me this, do you think it justified for him to have shown common cause with the Nazis by bombing London at the same time as the Luftwaffe was doing exactly the same?

Answer me this EG
Why was he bombing London?
Was it for the same reason as the Nazi's?

[Evil Genius]

DO NOT MAKE DEBATE