Potential new format for hurling champioship

[blasmere]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/congress-faces-split-over-plan-to-revamp-hurling-1088072.html


Proposals to redraft the hurling championships to be put before a special congress on Saturday are expected to meet with opposition.


Under the new system, the current Hurling Development Committee (HDC) are seeking to eliminate two of the four quarter-finals and reduce the number of defeats a county can suffer in a championship to just one.

Up to now a county could afford to lose twice and still reach an All-Ireland quarter-final as Cork did this year.

The new system proposes abolishing the series of round- robin games that have shaped the qualifiers for the last number of years.

The HDC during Sean Kelly's presidency, which featured such high-profile hurling names as Cyril Farrell, Nicky English, Ger Loughnane and Liam Griffin, split the hurling championship into three tiers (McCarthy, Ring and Rackard Cups) and successfully introduced the concept of two round-robin groups and four quarter-finals.

Their thinking was that hurling needed more matches on a greater number of weekends to increase the game's profile.

But this HDC, chaired by Kilkenny chairman Ned Quinn, had terms of reference to reduce the number of "meaningless games" and free up more time for club programmes.

Under the system they now propose Galway and Antrim (or the Ulster champions) would meet in the first round of qualifiers every year.

The winners would then play the losing quarter-finalists in Leinster with the losers of round one playing the beaten quarter-finalists in Munster.

The winners of round two would then leap forward to round four where they would meet the winners of round three, a provincial crossover of the beaten Munster and Leinster semi-finalists.

Round four winners would progress to two quarter-finals where they would meet the beaten provincial finalists. The provincial champions would again go straight into All-Ireland semi-finals.

The decrease in games and subsequently in the profile of hurling is perhaps the biggest sticking point that sellers of the new proposals will encounter.

Quinn admitted there could be opposition but he said his committee was only trying to stay within the framework of the terms of reference they had received.

"There is concern over the promotional aspect but it is a difficult thing to square the circle to reduce the number of games to facilitate the clubs and to maintain all the games we have is just not possible.

"So there was a big demand to eliminate what you might call the meaningless games."

Quinn gave his own personal opinion that hurling was heading for a 'champions league' style format which would do away with the provincial championships as we know them.

"It's just a personal opinion but since the back door came in 10 years ago there have been so many modifications now to the hurling championships.

"It is hard to come up with a system that is fair to everybody."

Given their current dominance in Leinster, Kilkenny's path to an All-Ireland final would be made that bit easier again with the abolition of quarter-finals for the provincial champions.

Quinn, however, said his own county were one of the two in Leinster that voted for Galway to be allowed into the provincial championship if the request was ever made.

"I know that because I signed the vote myself," he said.

The GAA president Nicky Brennan also agreed that the new proposals could leave them "open to criticism" but his main desire was to see more time created for club matches.

The Central Council will decide on a proposal from the HDC to restore Division One of the league to two groups of six teams again.

A proposal to squeeze Division One into nine teams next year was already agreed upon but was deemed not be feasible because of time constraints in spring.

[timmykelleher]

I think the above proposal is the worst I've heard so far.

This year it would have rewarded Kilkenny and Waterford for winning their provincial championships with an automatic semi-final spot.

It seems to further downgrade the Ulster provincial championship.

I always felt that the round robin games were of great benefit to the teams near the top.
The likes of Clare, Galway and waterford got great match practise while the big boys were lying idle.
This year Cork and Limerick benefited from these games to get their seasons back on track.

I would like the format kept as it is, but open up the draw for the groups and close off the draw for the quarter finals.
What I mean by this is in the groups do not seed the teams.
If you ended up with a group of Cork, Limerick, Clare Galway no match would become a training session.
A group of Laois Dublin Antrim Offaly would give all teams a realistic target of a quarter final spot.
Seeding these groups just helps keep the lesser teams down.

It's not fair on provincial winners to have the beat the same teams twice. So I'd keep teams that have met already apart in the quarter and semi finals if possible.

The current system is harder for provincial winners. But as there is a danger of the elite 1 or 2 teams creating a gap to the rest then isn't it better to keep the road harder for them.

[turk]

lads, would it really be so bad to go back to the pre-97 system of ulster, munster, leinster champions in the semis with galway? straight knock out all the way

[Gnevin]

I think the above proposal is the worst I've heard so far.



It seems to further downgrade the Ulster provincial championship.

I don't think any changes anyone makes could further downgrade it . Its already  meaningless

[Balboa]

lads, would it really be so bad to go back to the pre-97 system of ulster, munster, leinster champions in the semis with galway? straight knock out all the way

Aye it would be great to see Antrim getting beat by 30 pts every year........

[slow corner back]

I think the above proposal is the worst I've heard so far.



It seems to further downgrade the Ulster provincial championship.

I don't think any changes anyone makes could further downgrade it . Its already  meaningless

At present there is no link between the ulster championship and the Liam McCarthy. If Down were to beat antrim by thirty points in an ulster final the next week antrim would be in the Liam McCarthy and Down in the Christy Ring. When Antrim were relegated from the Liam McCarthy two years ago there was no ulster team in the competition.
Having said that I really do not like these proposals and think they are a step back from where we are now. The qualifiers do indeed bring on middle ranking counties and the quarter finals are a great showcase for the game, why change it if it is not broke.

[dec]

My suggestion

Ulster championship played as a straight knockout. Winners go into Leinster Q/Fs. Rest of the teams go into Ring and Rackard Cup.

Connacht champions (Galway) go into Leinster Q/Fs.

Leinster championship (Dublin, Kilkenny, Laois, Offaly, Wexford, Galway and Ulster champions)
Winners advance to All Ireland semi final, others head to a knockout backdoor competition.

Munster championship (Clare, Cork, Limerick, Tipperary, Waterford)
Winners advance to All Ireland semi final, others head to a knockout backdoor competition.

Backdoor

Round 1 (teams that don't make provincial final, 5 Leinster and 3 Munster)
Round 2 (4 winners of backdoor round 1)
Round 3 (2 winners of backdoor round 2 and 2 beaten provincial finalists)

Semi finals
Munster winners v One backdoor team (winner of backdoor round 3)
Leinster winners v Other backdoor team (winner of backdoor round 3)

[tayto]

My suggestion

Ulster championship played as a straight knockout. Winners go into Leinster Q/Fs. Rest of the teams go into Ring and Rackard Cup.

Connacht champions (Galway) go into Leinster Q/Fs.

Leinster championship (Dublin, Kilkenny, Laois, Offaly, Wexford, Galway and Ulster champions)
Winners advance to All Ireland semi final, others head to a knockout backdoor competition.

Munster championship (Clare, Cork, Limerick, Tipperary, Waterford)
Winners advance to All Ireland semi final, others head to a knockout backdoor competition.

Backdoor

Round 1 (teams that don't make provincial final, 5 Leinster and 3 Munster)
Round 2 (4 winners of backdoor round 1)
Round 3 (2 winners of backdoor round 2 and 2 beaten provincial finalists)

Semi finals
Munster winners v One backdoor team (winner of backdoor round 3)
Leinster winners v Other backdoor team (winner of backdoor round 3)

ding ding ding ding! We Have a winner! reads soooOOOo easy compared to the other systems knocking about. Please email this to whoever needs to read it asap!

[Rossfan]

Can the powers that be not sit down and think through a format and get it agreed before running with it.
At present the format changes every year and indeed the 2008 format wasnt even allowed happen.
As soon as some journalist or County Board gripes about something it's knee jerk straight away and change again.
First we had Provincial Champions complaining they had to sit around for weeks waiting while others were getting games .Then they were complaining that winning a Provincial only got them to the Qtr Finals the same as everyone else.
Then we had complaints thet the lesser teams were only getting one or two knock out games so we had round robins. As soon as someone said a team can lose 2 games and win the All Ireland  all Hell broke loose and we had the edict that the new system would have to eliminate any team that loses 2 games.
Meanwhile Galway/Antrim will only get one chance in the new system while all others get a second chance and no doubt that will be revisited.
Surely the thing to do is draft  as many formats as you want and send them out to the clubs and Counties and take it from there till something is arrived at even if it takes 2 years to finalise. Then stick with it.

[INDIANA]

or simply scrap the provincial championships. The provincial championships surely can be played seperate to the all-ireland championship if they are to be kept. We cannot come up witha  system because the provincial councils won't let go of the provincial championships

[Silky]

Dec has put forward a very good proposal and it ticks all the right boxes in my opinion. But Galway don't want to go into Leinster and I think Antrim might think the same. The GAA at HQ will have to get more pro-active and start telling them they are going in, like it or not.

[Gnevin]

Can the powers that be not sit down and think through a format and get it agreed before running with it.
At present the format changes every year and indeed the 2008 format wasnt even allowed happen.
As soon as some journalist or County Board gripes about something it's knee jerk straight away and change again.
First we had Provincial Champions complaining they had to sit around for weeks waiting while others were getting games .Then they were complaining that winning a Provincial only got them to the Qtr Finals the same as everyone else.
Then we had complaints thet the lesser teams were only getting one or two knock out games so we had round robins. As soon as someone said a team can lose 2 games and win the All Ireland  all Hell broke loose and we had the edict that the new system would have to eliminate any team that loses 2 games.
Meanwhile Galway/Antrim will only get one chance in the new system while all others get a second chance and no doubt that will be revisited.
Surely the thing to do is draft  as many formats as you want and send them out to the clubs and Counties and take it from there till something is arrived at even if it takes 2 years to finalise. Then stick with it.

Agreed Ross, its becoming a joke . GAA clubs could raise funds by  having an annual guess the hurling championship format competition, 5 euro per guess , all idea's forwarded on to the GAA

[aontroim abu]

dec i think you've hit the spot with that suggestion. There can be few complaints with that system - provincial championships are played off, Ulster winners get to play against teams who are at the same level as themselves which as we all know is Dublin, Laois, Offaly, Wexford. The Munster championship is played off, so the hierarchy down south cant complain, and Galway, if they agree, get more games. ANd everyne else goes into tiered games with other teams they can compete with.
WAKE UP CROKE PARK AND TAKEE HEED OF THIS MANS SUGGESTION

[turk]

lads, would it really be so bad to go back to the pre-97 system of ulster, munster, leinster champions in the semis with galway? straight knock out all the way

Aye it would be great to see Antrim getting beat by 30 pts every year........

as opposed to now!

[magpie seanie]

Dec's system looks to most sensible I've ever seen for hurling.